Discuss: Galactus

Bracketology: Semi-finals -- the Final Four!

Doug: So it comes down to this: two events from the Amazing Spider-Man versus two events involving our Merry Mutants, the Uncanny X-Men. Has this gone the way you would have predicted? I think this is going to be very interesting, and perhaps the key thing on your mind is how you'll interpret our question: Which event was most significant in the Bronze Age? More than one commenter has remarked that if the question were to read "to" rather than "in", votes might have gone differently in several cases (and no, I'm not interested in doing this again :) ). But as they say, it is what it is, so we are sticking to the original, ongoing question. As always, comments about your vote or the voting trends are welcome!

Three Cows Shot Me Down! Avengers #97

Avengers #97 (March 1972)
"Godhood's End!"
Roy Thomas-John Buscema/Tom Palmer (cover by Gil Kane/Bill Everett)

Doug: Here we are -- the conclusion to this wonderful 9-part epic. Last week one of our commenters stated that this was tailor-made for a graphic novel. You'll get no argument from this corner. And speaking of comments, Karen and I want to pause and thank everyone who has participated in the conversation -- you've left almost 100 comments on the previous eight installments. Certainly this has been a story worth discussing! So let's get to the endgame:

Doug: I have a couple of observations before we really get rolling, and both involve terminology. One, throughout this story it's been referred to internally as the Skrull vs. Kree War. When did that change to the Kree/Skrull War that we all know? Secondly, and in the same vein, when did the Intelligence Supreme become more commonly known as the Supreme Intelligence? Does anyone have any history to impart? Many thanks in advance if you do!

Karen: I think "Kree-Skrull" just flows better than "Skrull-Kree." As for the Supreme Intelligence vs. Intelligence Supreme, I'd swear I read an interview with Thomas where he said that he liked the way "Intelligence Supreme" sounded better than Stan's original term of "Supreme Intelligence." But obviously, later writers went back to the original.

Doug: So we left off issue #96 with Rick Jones being unceremoniously tossed back into the Negative Zone. I remarked that we'd begun this epic with a little tussle against Annihilus, so why not end it that same way? The Neg. Zone baddie immediately spies Rick and zeroes in on him. Roy and Big John give us a nice two-page spread that recaps how we got to this point. And since this is the first mention of John Buscema penciling the ending to what had become one of Neal Adams' masterpieces, why don't we ask for everyone's opinions on the art switch. Keep in mind that it was apparently Roy's decision to table Adams, due to what Roy has referred to as "deadline issues". Thoughts? Personally we're switching out da Vinci for Michelangelo. Styles are obviously different, but in the end they're both masters.

Karen: If we'd gotten Don Heck here, I'd be crying. I have no complaints! Both are tremendous artists. The only thing I can say is that Adams' panel layouts are more adventurous, perhaps more cinematic. But Buscema has his own gravitas.

Doug: Whoo-boy... as long as you bring up the Dashing One, I guess I'd ask our readers if the Kane/Everett cover to the final chapter is any more jarring than the shifts from Sal to Neal to John on the interiors?

Doug: As I said, Annihilus moves in quickly on Rick. Rick is fearful, as he's unarmed and basically floating in space. As Annihilus puts the clamps on Rick's throat, a blast of energy suddenly emanates from Rick's brain and drives the monster back, and away. We then cut to the Skrull throneworld where the emperor is gloating over Wanda and Pietro's failed attempts at freeing Captain Marvel from the negative energy with which he's surrounded himself and the omni-wave. Anelle, the Skrull princess, tries to get daddy to chill out on the off-worlders, but he's hearing none of it. Mar-Vell is suddenly roused from his trance, we'd assume at the same moment that Rick lashed out at Annihilus. Mar-Vell tells Wanda that in his attempt to contact Rick with the omni-wave he unwittingly tossed the young man into the Neg. Zone. Mar-Vell then, for the second time in this epic, destroys an omni-wave.

Karen: Already Mar-Vell is starting to feel somewhat martyr-ish. He's mostly been a tool and that doesn't really change through the course of the story.

Doug: We cut back to Rick, who is hurtling through space. Suddenly a portal appears right in front of him, and accepts him. Rick lands back in the prison that is the Supreme Intelligence's chambers. The S.I. tells Rick that he has again been orchestrating many events in the Kree/Skrull War and Rick's mindblast is just one such manipulation. But as they have this conversation, Ronan is spying on them. Aware that they are discovered, the S.I. orders Rick to reach back in his mind, to find heroes of yore who might serve as champions. Strangely enough, the S.I. seems to know of American comic books from the WWII era!

Karen: This is Roy having fun. Everyone knows how much he loves the Golden Age heroes he grew up with, so he found a way to incorporate them into the story. I have to say, when I first read this (as a child) it left me confused. Now I can enjoy it, even if it does seem somewhat self-indulgent.

Doug: In a great splash page, we see Captain America, the Sub-Mariner, the original Human Torch, the original Vision, the original Angel, the Fin, the Patriot, and the Blazing Skull leap into action against a Kree army. Buscema and Thomas give us some tutelage on the powers of these "new" heroes as they tear through the Kree. But just as suddenly the Golden Age warriors begin to fade out. Ronan sees this as his opportunity to slay Rick and the S.I. and orders the army into the chamber. Inside, the S.I. tells Rick that his mind had given him a brief respite in order to fully concentrate on what he must do next. As Rick cries out, his mind again unleashes an unexpected and horrible force that reaches across not only his immediate space, but all of space. Kree and Skrulls everywhere, battling all segments of the Avengers and their allies, suddenly fall as still as statues.

Karen: Wow! Who knew human beings had such potential? This made me think a bit of sci fi shows like The Outer Limits or especially the episode "Charlie X" from the original Star Trek series.

Doug: Cap, Iron Man, Thor, and the Vision, suddenly left with no one to fight, take the chance on redirecting to the Skrull galaxy. Blasting through hyperspace, only to emerge once again in the midst of the Skrull armada, the heroes get a free pass to the Skrull stronghold. Even the spaceships sit idly at the power that Rick had emanated. The Supreme Intelligence now wants to show Rick what has been transpired on Earth in their absence. We get a scene involving that pain-in-the-butt H. Warren Craddock -- in actuality the fourth Skrull from Fantastic Four #2! In a scene indicative of the political turmoil that was the early-1970's, once Craddock reverts back to his Skrull form, an enraged, anti-alien mob lynches him on the spot.

Karen: And there's that fourth Skrull you were asking about way back when, Doug! I thought the revelation that Craddock was not only a Skrull but had been manipulated by the Supreme Intelligence was pretty darn clever. The panel of the dead and bloodied Skrull imposter was quite powerful.

Doug: The S.I. then gives Rick, and us, the explanation for the entire War, and for the events of this issue. The Kree and Skrulls have warred as rivals, each having advanced up the evolutionary ladder. However, sensing that they will "improve" no further, they both turned their attention to their perceived real enemies -- the humans of planet Earth. And what of Rick's new powers? Manipulated by the S.I., Rick used abilities latent in all humans. As Ronan had put dampers on the S.I.'s abilities to affect the upper echelons of Kree and Skrull intelligences, the S.I. instead chose to enhance and influence the more "normal" players in this game. After the story is told, Rick succumbs to the stress of the day, and passes out.

Karen: I thought the idea that both races were at some sort of evolutionary dead -end was interesting, although I'm unsure what that really means (how do you stop evolving? bad gene pool?). This part of the story really sets things up for years to come. The inability to evolve would lead the Kree into the "Operation Galactic Storm" storyline many years later.

Doug: The Supreme Intelligence next uses his powers to open a portal and reassemble the Avengers, including Captain Marvel. All appear around the fallen Rick. The S.I. fills everyone in on what has transpired and then tells Mar-Vell that in order to save the boy, he must make the supreme sacrifice -- merge once again with Rick, hence giving Rick the lifeforce that will save his now-endangered life. Being a true hero, it really doesn't take Mar-Vell to long to reach the right decision -- and it's back to the Negative Zone he goes, as Rick rises once more. As a last act of the War, the S.I. sends the heroes back to Earth, where they encounter Nick Fury and the real H. Warren Craddock. Fury fills them in briefly, but it's an Avengers team that arrives home with heavy hearts in spite of their victory. They are missing one of their own, and wonder if he himself didn't make the ultimate sacrifice -- Clint Barton is not among them!

Karen: As much as I have enjoyed the Kree-Skrull War over the years, I've always felt the conclusion was the weakest part. We get a deus ex machina in the form of omnipotent Rick, fixing everything. It was just a little too neat for me. The Supreme Intelligence is the wizard behind the curtain, controlling it all, which I don't mind, but after all the strife and bloodshed, to have the war simply stopped was unsatisfying. I also would have liked to get a scene of the Vision reacting to seeing Wanda, but that would come later, along with our questions about the missing Hawkeye. I still consider this one of my favorite comic stories of all time, but I have to admit that it could have used a stronger ending. The ideas from this story though have had a huge impact on the Marvel Universe; the concept that human beings have the potential to be gods has shaped many a story. The Kree and Skrull, and their conflicts, continue to motivate new writers. Roy, Neal, John, and the rest did some world-building here and also gave us an exciting story. And -it was done in one title! No need to cross over into a dozen other books. Imagine that.

Karen: On another message board, a friend who is a big Neal Adams fan and has been reading our Kree-Skrull War posts brought up our Avengers 95 post. He believes that the cover to Avengers 95 was drawn by Adams and not John Buscema as we had stated. He cites Adams' own web page as evidence. On the other hand, the Comic Book Database lists Buscema as the artist. It still looks more like Buscema than Adams to me, but I will admit that Palmer's inks do make it more difficult to ascertain who the artist is. Anybody else want to chime in here about that particular cover?

Doug: By the way, the Grand Comics Database also credits the team of Buscema/Palmer with the cover. If you click on the previous link, you'll see a note below the cover credits that addresses this artist controversy. Apparently the folks at the GCD believe that it is Buscema and not Adams, despite prior credits leaning toward a collaborative effort.

Doug: I'd add one comment that Karen's friend made as additional food for thought:

"Look at Cap's biceps. Classic Adams. Look at Thor's leg: again, classic Adams."

Doug: Now if you think it's silly to be getting into select anatomical parts like biceps or quadriceps, it's really not. Years ago, I owned a page of original art from a Captain America & the Falcon from the early 1970's. At the bottom of the page was a signature by the one and only John Romita. Later, I decided to sell it on eBay. I was negligent in my listing and did no further research. I was almost-immediately informed that the artists were Sal Buscema and John Verpoorten. Now, certainly I can tell a Romita from a Sal Buscema, but this page was a puzzler in that it had a lot of facial close-ups and one in particular of the Contessa could have been straight out of Romita's romance comics -- so I went with it (I did immediately amend the listing, by the way, and the page did sell). However, feeling a mystery was afoot, I scanned the page and sent it on to Roy Thomas for his opinion. Roy did reply, and confirmed that it was indeed Sal's and John Verpoorten's work. However, he did say that an arm here and a leg there (I'm paraphrasing) could have been "corrected" by Romita -- but he couldn't be sure. So my point is that Neal Adams could stake a claim to the cover below -- it's no secret that he often put his stamp on pencils, inks... shoot, even coloring. So, examining the exhibit below, what sayest thou, the faithful reader?

What is Your Favorite Two-Part Story?

Doug: Over the past month we've run posts soliciting your opinions on favorite done-in-one stories, as well as wonderful multi-parters. Friend William suggested we do a post with today's question, and since it sounded like a great idea for a weekend full of conversation -- here you are! Hopefully we generate as many nominees and banter as the previous two posts did. Have fun!

Bracketology: Quarterfinals -- the Elite Eight!

Doug: We hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving holiday.

Doug: It was nice to see some close races in the latest round of 16. The choices get even tougher as we head to the quarterfinals, although I think as we look ahead it's somewhat obvious where this is going. Now that we're down to only four contests, it would be nice to see some specific comments concerning the merits or detriments of these events. Hopefully we'll get some really good conversation going over the next few days. And thanks to all who've chimed in over the past two weeks -- this has been interesting and a lot of fun!

Happy Thanksgiving from the Bronze Age Babies!

Discuss: Smallville

Karen: The series ended a few months back. What are your thoughts on it as a whole? For me, it was always a maddening show, in the sense that it was so very uneven in quality. It seemed like every time I was ready to give up on it (particularly after a string of bad episodes), then they'd pull off a really cool scene or set something up so I'd come back for more. All in all, while I enjoyed it on some levels, I can't rank it up there with other series that I consider to be truly great. What do you all think?

Discuss: Your Favorite Reference Books

Doug: Back on the 1st of the month, the tome The Silver Age of Comic Book Art came up in our comments on Avengers #93; and then darned if frequent commenter Richard didn't bring it up again yesterday! What are your favorite reference books?

Three Cows Shot Me Down! Avengers #96

Avengers #96 (Feb. 1972)
"The Andromeda Swarm!"
writer: Roy Thomas
artist: Neal Adams
inkers: Adams, Tom Palmer, and Weiss (Alan?)

Karen: First off: that has to be one of the most memorable Avengers covers ever!

Doug: Funny you should mention that -- not too long ago I was checking out some of the Link-Within posts of days past when I came across the very first Do-It-Yourself Open Forum. The question of that day was on favorite Bronze Age covers and you picked this very one!

Karen: At least I'm consistent! You thought you'd seen some spectacular scenes in the previous issues of this extravaganza, didn't you? Well, the best is yet to come! Our mighty team goes space-bound to save not only their own team mates, but every man, woman, and child on Earth!

Karen: Our story opens with our five free Avengers landing at a colossal orbitting space station. Once there, Nick Fury offers them up a spaceship, telling them to hurry before H. Warren Craddock manages to intercede. The team boards the craft, and powered by Thor's hammer, blasts off spectacularly into space.

Doug: Allow me to be SHIELD-ignorant -- can you or anyone else tell me when or where this was used before? Shoot, since would be nice, too! I was not a regular Strange Tales or Nick Fury reader. There is some nice characterization on the flight deck, and the thought that Mjolnir could power the ship just added another layer to the legend of the Asgardians.

Karen: I'm not sure if it was seen before, as I only have a handful of SHIELD or Strange Tales comics. I thought maybe it was Starcore, but I think that shows up in a few issues. So anyone out there no about this space station? After exiting hyperspace the Avengers come out to find the vast Skrull armada ahead! Luckily for them, the Skrulls assume that their presence is some sort of trick and come to a dead halt in space. The Skrulls only detect one vessel with their space-radar, but visually they see a fleet. The Skrull commander, by order of the Emperor, takes his flagship to investigate while the other ships hang back. Here's a question: who made that image of the fleet? It doesn't seem like the Avengers did it. Was it the Supreme Intelligence? This left me puzzled.

Doug: The emergence of the Avengers' ship in the midst of that armada was right out of Star Wars! Or, Star Wars was right out of this, rather. I don't really know who was behind the illusion -- as I was reading it, I just assumed that it was some sort of cloaking device in the ship's defenses. However, as we'll see toward the bottom of this review, it most possibly could have been the Supreme Intelligence.

Karen: Our heroes figure if they can defeat the commander maybe the other ships will take off. That seems like a stretch. They launch in four smaller ships (Iron Man is his own ship basically) and are fired upon by a missile, which Thor destroys. As the Armored Avenger draws fire, Thor and the Vision fly up to the Skrull ship, and using their bare hands, tear back the hull! Inside they are attacked by gun-wielding, space-suited Skrulls. Cap sends his small ship crashing through the hole his comrades have made, ejecting just in time. Goliath stays outside, patrolling in his ship in case any of the other ships come to the flagship's aid.

Doug: While the visual of Thor and the Vision ripping into that Skrull ship was awesome, did you have any problems believing Iron Man's armor could withstand the vacuum of space? Thor -- I guess not. But the Vision, too... I just wasn't sure that his body shouldn't have ended up inside-out. Oh, heck, long as I'm nit-picking: Cap and Clint just had on the ol' fishbowl spaceman helmets. At least the Legion wore those paper-thin "trans-suits".

Karen: Some spacesuits might have been nice for Cap and Goliath. I could buy Shellhead surviving for a short time though. The Avengers make their way through the ship towards the command center. Thor rips off the huge door and throws it across the room, making quite the dramatic entrance. He warns the Skrulls that they are "but the meekest harbingers of those who follow" and tells them to turn back. The commander is not so easily fooled though; he knows most Earth people do not have such powers. Suddenly the enormous view screen behind him comes alive and the Skrull Emperor tells the Avengers to give up -and shows them the captured Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch. he also shows them Captain Marvel, and describes how he is building an omni-wave device for them! The Avengers wonder if Marvel would really do this -well they quickly learn the answer. he's used the omni-wave to make an illusion of himself, so that he could surprise his Skrull guards! After knocking them out he frees the two imprisoned Avengers and turns on the Emperor, who has a force shield to protect him. So it's game on again!

Doug: Thor's line was great -- a bluff, yet full of bravado. Mar-Vell was a hero to the end. After reading the graphic novel we reviewed last week, I am becoming more and more inclined to pick up the first Essentials of his adventures. Roy is really amping up the Vision/Wanda tension. Even that old warhorse Captain America is catching the vibes of love. Then he says "nah...". Did you think it was intentional that both he and Thor at different times referred to the Vision as an android? Was Roy creating some sort of "racial" tension? That sort of thing would certainly have been taboo in 1972.

Karen: There was the possibility of that, but all of the Avengers, with the exception of Quicksilver, pretty much accepted the relationship between Wanda and the Vision. Despite the Avengers' threats, the Emperor is crafty. He orders the commander to carry out Plan Delta. The order is given before the Avengers can act. The Vision grabs the commander and demands he tell them what Plan Delta is. He also demands to know the location of "the girl -and the others!" Shockingly, the android delivers a savage beating to the alien; he might possibly have killed him if Thor and Iron Man had not intervened. The panel showing the Skrull's battered face is burned into my mind. The commander reveals the truth of Plan Delta, as he says it is too late to stop. A small ship has left the flagship, headed for Earth, with a cargo of "a nuclear warhead to dwarf all your daydreams of destruction." In another very memorable sequence, Cap radios Goliath and tells him to stop the ship "at any cost -including your life! Do you read me?" A grim faced Clint simply says, "I read ya Cap." I still get goosebumps from that. Clint manages to maneuver on top of the Skrull ship and somehow blast his way inside. He finds himself staring at four Skrulls and wondering why oh why he threw his growth serum away.

Doug: You have to love a bunch of uglies that complain about how backwards a planet is, and then go and use an alphabet from its most classical civilizations. Hawk was great, wasn't he? We all know he idolized Cap. I've been thinking through this entire storyline how well Roy has been writing Clint. It's been a nice and seemingly natural evolution from his obnoxious days under Stan's pen.

Karen: Of all the secondary Avengers, I always thought Hawkeye had the best story arc, and best progression as a character. He did a lot of growing up, although he never lost his smart-ass nature. Far away from this action, we turn to Rick Jones, boy captive, and the Kree ruler, Ronan. Sadly, Ronan will be miscolored as a "pink Kree" the rest of our tale. I know nit-picky, but it bothers me. Ronan is highly displeased to find that although he requested that the Inhumans be brought back to Kree-Lar to help fight the Skrulls, all he has in hand is Rick. Rick pulls an incredibly lame-brained stunt and whacks Ronan with a staff, which obviously does nothing but cheese him off. He smacks the kid, but has a grudging respect for his bravado, and decides to make him his 'body-slave' (Oh my...shades of Spartacus!). He's in a generous mood, as he shows Rick the great Kree fleet that is taking off to go battle the Skrulls for Earth. Rick tries to run off but is easily stopped by Ronan, who tires of him and throws him in a room...with the Supreme Intelligence? Kind of a strange move. The S.I. (not Sports Illustrated) tells Rick that he's been manipulating events behind the scenes, such as stirring up H. Warren Craddock, causing Rick to have his prophetic dream of Mar-Vell, and keeping Mar-Vell from realizing 'Carol' was actually the Super-Skrull. He also caused the Kree solider to kidnap Rick last issue. But why? That'll have to wait, as S.I. has one more stunt: he zaps Rick in to the Negative Zone -right next to Annihilus!

Doug: In time... but I didn't get the Negative Zone deal. Good excuse to end this with Annihilus, though. After all, we started this whole mess with him, didn't we?

Karen: There's just no let up in this issue. Wall to wall action, but every bit of it was entertaining. And those visuals! Adams does an amazing job with the space scenes. It really transported me. This was certainly the most spectacular comic I had read at this point. He and Thomas really drive home that sense of extreme heroism here. As I said before, I think this is when the Avengers truly became big leaguers.

Doug: One of the complaints I had earlier in the series was Neal's long and lithe figurework not being wholly appropriate for Thor. No problems here, as the God of Thunder has been appropriately bulked up. Adams draws movement so well, doesn't he? And big leaguers? Wasn't it Kurt Busiek who once characterized the Avengers as the varsity? There can be no doubt in this storyline.