tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post3866472561809320144..comments2024-03-19T10:41:35.976-05:00Comments on Bronze Age Babies: Only Time Will Tell... X-Men 142Doughttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04248324005584963229noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-37362851074436706912014-06-24T08:38:28.201-05:002014-06-24T08:38:28.201-05:00"Days of Future Past" was an amazing sto..."Days of Future Past" was an amazing story, really original and groundbreaking, shockingly dramatic and genuinely moving. The fact that later on it (as well as "The Dark Phoenix Saga") were endlessly rehashed in an unimaginative manner doesn't decrease the quality of the original.<br /><br />I look at it the same was as I do Watchmen by Alan Moore & Dave Gibbons. Just because too many subsequent creators & publishers took the wrong lessons from it and minlessly aped the "grim & gritty" trappings of the story does not subtract from how great it was.<br /><br />By the way, I have never, ever understood why Byrne was complaining about Claremont's narration concerning Kate Pryde's consciousness giving her teen self a peck on the cheek before returning home at the end of Uncanny X-Men #142. If Byrne was so genuinely concerned with providing the X-Men with a "clean win" then why the hell did he pencil the final ominous page of the story? You know the one with the President of the United States giving Senator Kelly, Henry Gyrich and Sebastian Shaw the authority to reactivate the Sentinels! That certainly undermined the X-Men's victory a hell of a lot more than an innocuous line of dialogue about a kiss.<br /><br />Honestly, I just think that Byrne and Claremont had reached the natural end of their partnership. The creative tensions between the two of them had finally just become too insurmountable, and editor Roger Stern had been replaced with Louise Simonson, who was much more sympathetic to Claremont. Byrne just blew that single line of Claremont's script out of proportion, and it because the straw that broke the camel's back.<br /><br />In any case, here is a link to a write-up on "Days of Future Past" I penned on my own blog last October...<br /><br />http://benjaminherman.wordpress.com/2013/10/19/tomorrow-is-today-x-men-days-of-future-past/Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-4807950896818175752014-05-27T10:51:50.523-05:002014-05-27T10:51:50.523-05:00And here is a link to Days of Future Now: Reflecti...And here is a link to <a href="http://themiddlespaces.wordpress.com/2014/05/27/days-of-future-now-reflections-on-x-men-comics-days-of-future-past-part-two-of-two/" rel="nofollow">Days of Future Now: Reflections on X-Men Comics & “Days of Future Past” (Part Two of Two)</a>Dr. Oyolahttp://themiddlespaces.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-3359967235622984892014-05-20T09:18:03.204-05:002014-05-20T09:18:03.204-05:00Here's a link to Days of Future Then: Reflecti...Here's a link to <a href="http://themiddlespaces.wordpress.com/2014/05/20/days-of-future-then-reflections-on-x-men-comics-days-of-future-past-part-one-of-two/" rel="nofollow">Days of Future Then: Reflections on X-Men Comics & “Days of Future Past” (Part One of Two)</a> over on my blog - please let me know what you think - it is a slight departure from my blog's usual posts, and to a degree emulates Doug & Karen's approach.Dr. Oyolahttp://themiddlespaces.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-57395591213102620222014-05-13T04:51:16.154-05:002014-05-13T04:51:16.154-05:00Mike, I'm with you and Karen 100% on Wolvie...Mike, I'm with you and Karen 100% on Wolvie's healing factor working much better in stories when it's brought down to a reasonable level.<br /><br />Also, Archimedes notwithstanding, I never saw how a steel beam could move the Blob when a person attempting the same movement would fail. Colossus says he's moving the earth, though, which would make sense--but that's not what Byrne is drawing, is it?<br /><br />Doug, I did appreciate the "coincidence" of this story being reviewed shortly before the release of the film--it's a nice touch of nostalgia to get us prepped for its Hollywood treatment. :)<br />Comicsfanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10064955427593820783noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-89294541397795317702014-05-12T22:40:55.901-05:002014-05-12T22:40:55.901-05:00Great review Karen & Doug!
I'd never read...Great review Karen & Doug!<br /><br />I'd never read this particlular issue (gasp!) but now I see what all the fuss was about. Yes, it was a shocker to see our intrepid heroes killed, but hey, anything can happen in time travel stories.<br /><br />Some observations - Byrne draws a curious version of Wolvie's adamantium skeleton after he's vaporized by the Sentinel, specifically his forearm. I've always heard his claws were contained in a special bionic housing in his forearm, and Byrne draws it literally like this. Of course, with the retcon of his claws being always a natural part of him, I guess future artists did away with this. Oh, by the way, Karen I agree it's refreshing to see his healing factor not being so all powerful. Wolverine's healing factor in modern comics is so ramped up to unbelievable levels that the guy's practically invulnerable, basically Superman with claws. I thought only the Hulk had a healing factor so great. I personally think it's more interesting when he's not able to heal so fast.<br /><br />The Nightcrawler/Mystique family reunion? I thought it was good that Kurt saw the similarities between them, which of course set up another retcon with Mystique as his biological mother. The grey headed Colossus was Byrne's way of reminding viewers these were older X-men. I agree that Austin contributed a lot to Byrne's pencils here. In my opinion, a lesser inker would have detracted from the artwork.<br /><br />All in all, a great issue. Now I see why they made a movie out of this!<br /><br /><br />- Mike 'future undetermined' from Trinidad & Tobago.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-59286823852181561732014-05-12T20:43:33.238-05:002014-05-12T20:43:33.238-05:00These two issues represent a great memory for me f...These two issues represent a great memory for me from the Bronze Age. As mentioned already there was so much packed into these two issues. Every panel moved the story along.<br />While I agree that Austin and Byrne made a great team (the line work was just astounding), I think Glynis Wein added so much with the colors. I haven't the Essentials volume so the detail in the ink is extraordinary but I miss something without the color. The mood was set with a gloominess in the future and a colorful array of hope in the present; the double page panel where the X-Men first confront the Brotherhood is really done well. Just the use of orange in backgrounds and the pearl blue of Destiny's costume are things I will remember. It really added to the art and did not cloud it. Even in the dismal future scenes, the landscape was grey and bleak but not muddy and dark. Very nice I thought and something I will remember. The print quality and paper at the time affected it somewhat but I think Wein overcame it nicely.Martinex1noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-53411830788623637532014-05-12T13:11:02.275-05:002014-05-12T13:11:02.275-05:00Great review (as usual) guys. As far as comics go,...Great review (as usual) guys. As far as comics go, it really doesn't get much better than the Byrne, Austin, and Claremont X-Men stories. And this one is no exception. It's a true classic, but never my favorite to be honest. (Just a little too dark for my tastes I guess). It always left me feeling a little bummed out. Even though everything turned out OK in the end (maybe). That very last page always sort of bugged me. As a kid, I was like "Wait, did they change the future or not?", and that final page leaves that somewhat up in the air.<br /><br />An interesting note on that subject. Many years ago they reprinted the two issues of DOFP as a stand alone X-Men graphic Novel. I have a copy, and when I read it, much my surprise I discovered that they left off that very last page of the original story. I'm not sure why they did it, but the best I can figure is that since it was a graphic novel, they didn't want to leave it with that somewhat ambiguous ending.Williamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16988016825582035390noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-25419157986633667032014-05-12T12:46:42.128-05:002014-05-12T12:46:42.128-05:00Osvaldo --
You're the academic around here......Osvaldo --<br /><br />You're the academic around here... if Karen and I pointed out all the nuances of this story, then what would you have to do? :)~<br /><br />But as long as we're sort of on a "did you notice?" kick, how about Colossus' hair being gray around the temples when he's armored up? Funny notion.<br /><br />DougDoughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04248324005584963229noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-58230741641830368022014-05-12T12:45:23.477-05:002014-05-12T12:45:23.477-05:00The Claremont/Byrne/Austin team certainly went out...The Claremont/Byrne/Austin team certainly went out with a tremendous bang. I didn't continue reading the X-Men and related titles long enough to see all the convoluted strings that would emerge from this story, but it's easy to see how it got started with so many tantalizing tidbits thrown in. I don't even know what developed from that final scene with Gyrich being assigned to take over development of a new line of Sentinels and the question as to how Shaw would prevent it from coming back to bite him (as Larry Trask was bitten when he created a new line, not knowing as it turned out that he himself was a mutant!).<br />A truly classic story, and all the more amazing that Claremont & Byrne managed to keep it down to only two issues.Fred W. Hillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07602124919964053532noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-28277949663362091702014-05-12T11:33:01.848-05:002014-05-12T11:33:01.848-05:00You guys didn't mention the panel with Angel c...You guys didn't mention the panel with Angel commenting on Wolverine's lethality after Storm uses a whirlwind to stop Logan from chopping up Pyro. It is the one where he scoops up Kitty/Kate. He says something like, "The last thing we need with the current anti-mutant sentiment is Wolvie carving someone up - even if it is a villain." So clearly SOMEONE was concerned with publicity.<br /><br />As for the president's face thing - two possibilities:<br /><br />1) it is an echo of the Captain America Secret Empire conclusion - the president's face in shadow<br /><br />2) Remember this is all taking place the Friday before the big election where Reagan is about to be elected - even though Claremont couldn't know that when this was written - I see a lot of anxiety about the Cold War and Reagan's potential presidency in this story (something I plan to cover in part two of my post on DoFP on my blog) - so I don't think this is supposed to be Carter, but rather the shadowy possibility of a Reagan presidency. I have other possible evidence of this from the story, but you will have to wait until May 27th to read it. <br /><br />Part one goes live a week from tomorrow.<br /><br />But long story short, spending a lot of time with this story, I developed a whole new appreciation for what Claremont and Byrne accomplished with it.Dr. Oyolahttp://themiddlespaces.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-52942662646123137112014-05-12T10:37:50.442-05:002014-05-12T10:37:50.442-05:00"These three pages..." Yep, very disturb..."These three pages..." Yep, very disturbing, but they're a big part of what made this story so memorable.<br /><br />Also, I like the "only time will tell", ambiguous aspect of the ending. However, in my view that means this dystopian future should never have been revisited. But we all know that wasn't the case.<br />In fact, I think even that parting mental "kiss" from the departing Kate to teenage Kitty shouldn't have been included. Instead, Kitty should have just collapsed and regained consciousness as her teen self, so that readers could be left to speculate that maybe by changing that little bit of the past (i.e. stopping Senator Kelly's assassination) she maybe did succeed in wiping out that dismal future.<br />J.A. mentioned some of Byrne's grumbling about this story, and apparently the "kiss" was something Claremont wrote in later that Byrne apparently didn't like. If that's the case, I have to say I agree with Byrne on that one. Otherwise, if you pay attention to certain details, you can tell the collaboration between Claremont and Byrne was strained by this point. An example, and one that had me scratching my head when I first read this story: the panels in the right-hand panel on the third page say that "beams of force" come out of Avalanche's hands, giving the marble floor "liquid fluidity." Yet the image Byrne drew shows no beams of force, and the marble floor didn't turn to liquid...Edo Bosnarnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-22534289147503885822014-05-12T10:24:43.049-05:002014-05-12T10:24:43.049-05:00Great write-up of great story that holds up well. ...Great write-up of great story that holds up well. As a kid the ending bothered me, and I found this quote from Byrne a few years back that I think is worth bringing up here:<br /><br />"One thing about Chris that has driven me crazy since day one, especially so when I was working with him, is that he absolutely cannot or will not write a clean win for the heroes. Even when I plotted DAYS OF FUTURE PAST and <br />made sure it was an absolute, unequivocal, We Save The Day story for the X- Men, he managed to slip in a tiny scene that took the win away from them. <br /><br />Because of this No Win scenario, there are always unfinished storylines to revisit. Heck -- that may be why he does it!"<br /><br />I realize Byrne's got some axes to grind with Claremont (and many other creators, for that matter), but the lack of "clean victories" got old for me when I first read these stories.<br /><br />And I hate to beat a dead horse, but thanks again for mentioning Austin's contributions. I was a big fan of Byrne's work in general, but Byrne & Austin are what many think of when they think of "Byrne" art. That thinking leads to Austin being overlooked at times, like on the cover of this tpb:<br />http://www.amazon.com/X-Men-Days-Future-Chris-Claremont/dp/0785164537/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_y<br />They're up there with Kirby/Sinnott, Miller/Janson in my book.<br />J.A. Morrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15800901321134394272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-14735681214867733332014-05-12T07:52:47.528-05:002014-05-12T07:52:47.528-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com