tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post5127542349067763638..comments2024-03-19T10:41:35.976-05:00Comments on Bronze Age Babies: Arc of Triumph...? Captain America 1-14 -- the Winter SoldierDoughttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04248324005584963229noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-4776787382245385252016-05-16T21:57:02.795-05:002016-05-16T21:57:02.795-05:00Brubaker is really solely responsible for bringing...Brubaker is really solely responsible for bringing cap back. Most don't remember, but it was a gamble. Cap was not a good seller, and the thought was ,at the time, that he was just a "tired" character. Of course this was before the movies. Brubakers's crime noir stuff is outstanding!spencerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14576369979304207262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-21131419621867499062015-02-03T04:24:50.889-06:002015-02-03T04:24:50.889-06:00Doug, you're right, the 'Sentinel of Liber...Doug, you're right, the 'Sentinel of Liberty' mini from the early 1990s has never been reprinted - I know, I've checked repeatedly. And I've been wanting that for some time now, as I've only heard good things about it.Edo Bosnarnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-50422236625727795782015-02-02T21:24:34.579-06:002015-02-02T21:24:34.579-06:00Dealing with "current" Marvel is what go...Dealing with "current" Marvel is what got me thinking about my topic from the other day. The 60s guys had such a blank slate to play with. No baggage for them to have to juggle, no underlying foundation to have to pick around, no Jenga tower of continuity to worry about. <br /><br />What I see happening now, the flowing back and forth of media Marvel and comics Marvel, big screen movie Marvel and small screen TV Marvel, something somewhere is going to have to give. Will "our" Marvel eventually become an Elseworlds story, an Earth 2 history of sorts? If Cap was frozen for 70 years and only recently defrosted, then Tony Stark's dad didn't serve with him in WW2 or Tony is pushing 50! He, Tony, is old enough to have heard stories of his Dad talking about Captain America. "Is this the guy my Dad never shut up about?" Can current Marvel hang it's hat on a post middle aged Tony Stark?<br /><br />(With his back against the San Francisco traffic<br /> On the bridges side that faces towards the jail<br /> Setting out to join a demographic<br /> He hoists his first leg up over the rail<br /><br /> And a phone call is made, police cars show up quickly<br /> The sergeant slams his passenger door<br /> He says, "Hey son why don't you talk through this with me?<br /> Just tell me what you're doing it for"<br /><br /> "Oh, it's a little bit of everything<br /> It's the mountains, it's the fog<br /> It's the news at six o'clock<br /> It's the death of my first dog"<br /><br /> "It's the angels up above me<br /> It's the song that they don't sing<br /> It's a little bit of everything")The Prowlerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16047156663144096329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-14459857651189262752015-02-02T21:05:25.297-06:002015-02-02T21:05:25.297-06:00Brubaker is a good writer; he's probably one o...Brubaker is a good writer; he's probably one of the few who could have gotten away with bringing Bucky back. I can only imagine how awful it could have been in the hands of less capable ones.<br /><br />In general I don't care to see characters revived. It happens so frequently that comic deaths have no meaning any more. God only knows what readers will be subjected to with this "restart" -I'm an old curmudgeon, I won't be going anywhere near it! I crossed over the river a few years ago and have no regrets.Karenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17032477453891087135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-23290778268390010982015-02-02T15:50:46.375-06:002015-02-02T15:50:46.375-06:00Wardhill Terry --
That is one of my favorite Cap ...Wardhill Terry --<br /><br />That is one of my favorite Cap stories! In fact, as I was thinking about entering the selling of my comics several months ago, that mini was one that I pulled out and set aside. To the best of my knowledge, it was never given the trade paperback treatment and certainly should be!<br /><br />Highly recommended.<br /><br />DougDoughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04248324005584963229noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-25021640018596933472015-02-02T15:44:38.196-06:002015-02-02T15:44:38.196-06:00Thanks, Doug, for the idea of treating this as an ...Thanks, Doug, for the idea of treating this as an "Elseworld" story. Continuity has apparently become a very malleable thing over the last 15-20 years. Reading your review I was reminded of a Captain America mini from 1991, "The Adventures of Captain America; Sentinel of Liberty" written by Fabian Nicieza and drawn by Kevin Maguire and Joe Rubenstein. I haven't read it for quite a while but I recall that Bucky alluded to doing the kind of "war-required" tasks that Cap couldn't, or wouldn't do. This is a really good mini. It achieves what I like in a ret-con story. It doesn't deny any previous tales and it adds new characters and nuances to those stories.WardHillTerrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-28319875630197482232015-02-02T15:00:42.548-06:002015-02-02T15:00:42.548-06:00Karen mentioned Mr. Fantastic's and the Thing&...Karen mentioned Mr. Fantastic's and the Thing's WWII records.<br /><br />This was "fixed" during the epic-length Skrulls/Galactus story by Wolfman/Pollard/Byrne/Sinnott. The Skrulls shot 3/4 of the FF with a rapidly aging ray. But when they were "de-aged", they wound up younger than they were before. Of course that story is now 35 years old, so I don't know if their WWII service is still canon. J.A. Morrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15800901321134394272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-35029491465834495512015-02-02T13:43:36.539-06:002015-02-02T13:43:36.539-06:00Hilarious Uncle Ben comment. As I am sure you all...Hilarious Uncle Ben comment. As I am sure you all know they are teasing that exact thing in Spider Man right now! Oh, as long as Ben, Bucky, and Gwen don't get together and form the All New, All Different X Dead, I will be okay. Like some of you I dreaded Bucky coming back and feared the worst. I will have to give this a try though based on Karen's and Doug's comments. I also did think it worked in the film so I am curious. Perhaps it worked well in the film because Bucky was not dead for 50 years and it was a relatively short period between movies and seemed like a continuous plot point. But again, I am very interested in how Doug and Karen presented this today. <br /><br />Regarding Freedom Fries: so ludicrous to try to remove "French". But at least the government didn't touch my horn, doors, cuffs, etc. And at least we're open about our bizarre Orwellian approach to language. I've got to work on a bill to get Congress to remove "decompression" from the language. Stay warm all. Martinex1noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-80241283552952414962015-02-02T13:05:17.372-06:002015-02-02T13:05:17.372-06:00I liked all of Brubaker and Epting's run on Ca...I liked all of Brubaker and Epting's run on Cap. I came to this series after following Epting's art on El Cazador, a great series by Crossgen that unfortunately didn't last long. Then I followed Brubaker to Criminal, a noir series that I'd also recommend. Glad you enjoyed this new Cap story Doug!<br /><br />The Freedom Fries thing was disgusting, a good example of how mob mentality can make people lose their common sense in a hurry. Good for Brubaker for praising the French Resistance.<br /><br />If something is well written, it works. I think messing with Bucky in this case is ok, as it resulted in a good story. Would the X-Men or Teen Titans have been better off to stay as the original teams? Sometimes change is good.Garettnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-41835018519560956552015-02-02T12:22:00.670-06:002015-02-02T12:22:00.670-06:00I read those issues via the DVD-ROM last year. I ...I read those issues via the DVD-ROM last year. I liked the art, but I didn't think the story was very good.<br /><br />I had less of a problem with Bucky being alive than I did with him being a badass killing machine. It reminded me of another "shocking" revelation from the previous year. J. Michael Straczynski wrote retcon story where Gwen Stacy had twins by Norman Osbourn. <br /><br />But I enjoyed reading your take on it, and in the words of John Lennon (when he was still a Beatle), "it's good to have the both of you back!"<br /><br />And like Karen and Doug, I want to recommend the Marvel DVD-ROMs. They're out of print, but I ordered the Cap and Spidey sets through Interlibrary Loan. So if you have a library card, you can likely do the same. They're not copy protected, you can save the PDFs of every issue.<br />I still prefer my reprints in book form, but the DVD-ROMs include the letters columns, which is a nice touch. J.A. Morrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15800901321134394272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-79903169251565529212015-02-02T11:32:22.734-06:002015-02-02T11:32:22.734-06:00Ohh, I totally agree Doug. In all actuality, I ful...Ohh, I totally agree Doug. In all actuality, I fully believe are some fine retcon stuff out there.<br /><br />I clearly and unabashingly choose to remain blissfully ignorant, enjoying my Marveldom just as I did as a wide-eyed 11yr old.<br /><br />'Now what did I do with that Steranko FOOM poster..?' <br /><br />I'm having it professionally matted/framed. :)david_bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00218727673816200051noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-54167717375804010962015-02-02T10:18:31.320-06:002015-02-02T10:18:31.320-06:00Agreed David, and I stated the same sentiment at t...Agreed David, and I stated the same sentiment at the top of the post. I was as closed-minded as you, and to be honest I'm still not sure I agree with the decision. But man -- this is well done!<br /><br />Hey, treat it like an "Elseworlds" story and get yourself a copy from a library or off the DVD-ROM. Give it a chance. Whether you are happy or mad at the end, <i>as a story</i> it's darned good! Also as I said, I think it's much better executed in the comics than it was in the film and part of that is due to our experience (yours, mine, all of us) with the whole "Cap mourns Bucky" schtick that to be very honest got old in the Silver Age stories. The movie in no way could have expressed that loving backstory of comradeship and guilt as the comics have since the original retcon in Avengers 4-through-whenever.<br /><br />Just sayin' -- "don't knock it till you've tried it".<br /><br />Now, if someone tries to bring back Uncle Ben I am really going to be hacked off...<br /><br />Coyly yours, <br /><br />Doug<br /><br />PS: Edo, I generally agree with you about characters and secret IDs. I've never warmed to that recent phenomenon (DC the more guilty of those changes).Doughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04248324005584963229noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-77950219255611888902015-02-02T10:10:46.455-06:002015-02-02T10:10:46.455-06:00I checked a little deeper, Colin, 'cause I tho...I checked a little deeper, Colin, 'cause I thought surely it wouldn't have been an official act of Congress for something that inane. . . that it would have been done by the cafeteria mngt or something. Aaaaand I was woefully mistaken. It was indeed something that took some measurable amount of Congress's time to enact. . . and they <i>did</i> change the name! (Until the congressman that spearheaded it later resigned due to some personal scandal.)<br /><br />Yeesh. My wife has fairly regular dealings with a lot of our nationally elected officials and reps (both parties, actually)-- I think it contributes to her tooth-grinding during sleep. . . <br /><br />HBHumanbellynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-31405169402442106802015-02-02T10:03:27.745-06:002015-02-02T10:03:27.745-06:00Edo, fully agreed on Bucky as foundational to Cap&...Edo, fully agreed on Bucky as foundational to Cap's angst.<br /><br />It's like the crash that gave the FF superpowers actually never happened, and Banner actually never got zapped, and Wayne's parents never **really** died.<br /><br />Stoooopid plot ideas. Hence why I literally said goodbye to Marvel Zuvembiedom when Gwen first came back ~ I discovered Stan Lee had no backbone. <br /><br />He caved.david_bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00218727673816200051noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-21972617335478558892015-02-02T08:56:33.763-06:002015-02-02T08:56:33.763-06:00HB, thanks for that information - I didn't rea...HB, thanks for that information - I didn't realise it was actually Congress that had attempted to change the name to freedom fries !Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-66070551892188450902015-02-02T08:43:26.899-06:002015-02-02T08:43:26.899-06:00Yeah, I'm with HB - for me, Bucky's death ...Yeah, I'm with HB - for me, Bucky's death is one of those foundational things, and I have a hard time even thinking about reading any story where this is contradicted (in the comics; again like HB, I really liked how it was handled in the movie).<br />Another thing I'm pretty adamant about is that Steve Rogers is Cap (just like Bruce Wayne is Batman), so I kind of generally just ignore all of that post-Civil War stuff.<br />All that's just a preface to say that I really enjoyed reading your conversation/review, and you've got me intrigued. The fact is, despite what I said above, I recently bought, but have yet to read, the Forever Allies tpb, which is a Bucky as Cap story - I was prompted to buy it because a) it's written by Roger Stern, which is always a plus in my book, and b) it was really quite cheap. Your post today probably means I will push that book ahead in the reading pile, and maybe some day give Winter Soldier a chance.Edo Bosnarnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-74986976184852563372015-02-02T08:20:36.310-06:002015-02-02T08:20:36.310-06:00Colin: Yes, IIRC that deeply humiliating piece of...Colin: Yes, IIRC that deeply humiliating piece of inane jingo-ism happened in . . . the House or Senate cafeteria, was it? It was an object of almost instant (and highly deserved) derision 'round here. I seem to remember a small news blurb later on when they relented and switched the name back.<br /> Now I'm hungry for some fried potatoes. . . <br /><br /> I do think I may have let my subscription to CAP finally lapse during the latter half of Winter Soldier. . . or the subscription folks switched it mid-way to one of the other intermittent Cap titles, or something (they tended to do that, for some tooth-grinding reason). But-- as much as I thought the art was first rate, I'm one of those folks who felt that retconning/reviving Bucky was yet another in a growing wave of dismaying insults to the Marvel History that I saw as foundational. "Everything you believed is a lie" immediately dis-invests me from a storyline, no matter how well done it is. It's that same matter of narrative trust that I've harped on so often. Bucky's death and its effect on Cap are/were an emotional cornerstone for a good chunk of how the MU is/was perceived. And it was unflinchingly portrayed as an irreversible truth-- and obviously believed to be so by the previous writers and creators. That will always stand in the way for me. (Although- yep- I really do like how it works in the film. It's handled very well in this new iteration of the MU-)<br /><br />HBHumanbellynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-56877605323530756742015-02-02T07:16:13.769-06:002015-02-02T07:16:13.769-06:00"The French were taking a beating in the post..."The French were taking a beating in the post 9/11 world". Wasn't there an attempt to rename French fries as "freedom fries" ? Just out of curiosity, was this taken seriously ? Did anyone actually call them freedom fries ? By the way - "French" fries were invented in Britain and we call them chips :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-42932205716073308352015-02-02T06:42:13.016-06:002015-02-02T06:42:13.016-06:00OK, I'm sold. Now I really want to read this. ...OK, I'm sold. Now I really want to read this. If you are both praising this story so highly, it must be pretty good. A friend of mine recommended "Winter Soldier" to me many years ago when it first came out. He guaranteed I'd like it, but I was resistant. I was always very much of the mindset of "Only Bucky stays dead." And that's that.<br /><br />But after your sterling review, I'd really feel like I must read this story now<br /><br />So, I was sitting here wondering if I should take the plunge and buy the trade, or try to find it at the library. And then I remembered that I have the "Complete Captain America" Digital Comic Collection on DVD (and on my computer). And that just so happens to included the entire "Winter Soldier" storyline all the way up through "The Death of Captain America". So now, at my earliest convenience I'll be checking it out, and I'll let you know what I think.Williamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16988016825582035390noreply@blogger.com