tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post7290967467497966036..comments2024-03-19T10:41:35.976-05:00Comments on Bronze Age Babies: BAB Classic: Three Cows Shot Me Down! Avengers #91Doughttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04248324005584963229noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-63612232180432001832014-01-14T09:06:37.278-06:002014-01-14T09:06:37.278-06:00If you guys think the Vision is a machine you have...If you guys think the Vision is a machine you haven't read issue 58.Karenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17032477453891087135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-32192784641886309972014-01-14T08:25:46.118-06:002014-01-14T08:25:46.118-06:00I have really been enjoying this double trip down ...I have really been enjoying this double trip down memory lane. The springboard from the first discussion as well as re-reading the run of Avengers 89-97. I've mentioned before that I was using my Essential Avengers to do my reading but I discovered over Christmas that I owned the 2 issue Kree Skrull Saga. But it only includes 93-97! I guess someone doesn't see 89-92 as part and parcel of the Kree Skrull Saga. Same with FantaCo's Chronicles. But that's not why I called. What I loved about 91 was the layers!!! The Vision and Sentry 459. Are they the same? Why are they different? Are we not to notice that 4 and 5 is 9? Quicksilver realizing that the best thing you can do with superspeed? Run run away. (Run run away.) Sorry got Slade stuck for a second. And now, the highpoint of the whole story. There's a steel bar leaning against the outer wall. I know some may say, "How convenient," but I say "Au contraire, mon frère". Of course there would be a steel bar. It's called a leftover. How many of us have ever assembled something without something left over. Why not the Kree? We thinking, long buried engine of destruction...but what we're missing is: Is was a government/military project. It was awarded to the lowest bidder. There had to be some graft, overruns extra charges. Someone was smoozing someone somewhere. And now with Captain Marvel free, Viz and the Witch ready for round two, who knows what would've happened? I smell victory.........<br /><br />The Prowler (from the old Spider-Man Crawlspace).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-67054003293331846782014-01-13T20:37:15.117-06:002014-01-13T20:37:15.117-06:00Family friendly, guys. Family friendly.
Thanks,
...Family friendly, guys. Family friendly.<br /><br />Thanks,<br /><br />DougDoughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04248324005584963229noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-60045012973074423672014-01-13T20:27:23.217-06:002014-01-13T20:27:23.217-06:00As would I. How about a cross-dimensional threeway...As would I. How about a cross-dimensional threeway with Red Tornado?Doc Savagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08783244633195233970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-79429293430647422102014-01-13T19:42:16.390-06:002014-01-13T19:42:16.390-06:00I agree with the comments above about the maniacal...I agree with the comments above about the maniacal Ronan. However, keep in mind that this book was published pretty early in Sal's career and big brother John had tutored him in the art of making everything (EVERYTHING) dynamic. If that was indeed the formula, then Sal was successful.<br /><br />DougDoughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04248324005584963229noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-35586260243142379662014-01-13T18:16:12.595-06:002014-01-13T18:16:12.595-06:00> Plus a human woman who loves a machine is se...> <i> Plus a human woman who loves a machine is seriously mentally ill and emotionally disturbed.</i><br /><br />A Machine Man/Vision gay-love affair, on the other hand, I'd pay serious money to read! (I'm not kidding)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-64940625785548990662014-01-13T17:16:43.366-06:002014-01-13T17:16:43.366-06:00I never liked Scarlet Witch either, just tolerated...I never liked Scarlet Witch either, just tolerated her in tandem with Quicksilver or Vision. Her powers were so vaguely defined you never knew what she could or couldn't do, and sometimes she'd pass out from a Herculean effort that in other issues was no biggie. Plus a human woman who loves a machine is seriously mentally ill and emotionally disturbed. Curious: did logical Vision ever point this out or did he just take advantage?Doc Savagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08783244633195233970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-43948659166618431972014-01-13T16:51:15.989-06:002014-01-13T16:51:15.989-06:00Mark me down as another fan of Our Pal Sal!
His ...Mark me down as another fan of Our Pal Sal! <br /><br />His art here is perfect for this and I couldn't imagine anyone else.<br /><br />Toy Box is right - that panel with the near kiss btwn Wanda and Vision is brimming with longing and passion!<br /><br />BUT. . . put me in the "I don't like Scarlet Witch" camp. Her powers were always too nebulous for me and later (post-Bronze Age) made even less sense.<br /><br />As for the whole Vision = Original Human Torch thing - but doesn't he have the brain patterns of Wonder Man? Or am I getting my continuity confused?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-3348559205555968022014-01-13T16:07:38.857-06:002014-01-13T16:07:38.857-06:00Speaking of the Defenders, have you heard Marvel&#...Speaking of the Defenders, have you heard Marvel's going to put them on TV? but some lame modern line-up with Daredevil, Luke "God forbid I use my super name and costume" Cage, Iron Fist, and someone named Jessica who at first I thought was Spider-Woman but apparently isn't. I was so excited until I read it's not the REAL Defenders.Doc Savagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08783244633195233970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-32428892851892772022014-01-13T16:01:15.436-06:002014-01-13T16:01:15.436-06:00I thought it was rather neat that the Vision turne...I thought it was rather neat that the Vision turned out to be the original Torch, although even as a kid first reading that it struck me that Ultron & Phineas must have done a lot of tinkering ton the Torch's face & body because the Vision didn't really resemble the android Human Torch all that much physically, striking me as somewhat lankier with a much narrower face. <br />And I agree, Ronan, as depicted by Roy & Sal, was remarkably different from the character as portrayed by Stan & Jack -- of course, the Galactus depicted by Stan & John Buscema was very different than that of Stan & Jack too. Under, Kirby, Ronan came off as the high government official carrying out his duty as he saw fit, but here he delights in cruelty and comes off more of a standard, blowhard villain. <br />I'll also echo Edo in that Sal did some of his best work on the Defenders.Fred W. Hillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07602124919964053532noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-15248987102533124052014-01-13T14:43:01.952-06:002014-01-13T14:43:01.952-06:00Well, I consider myself a Sal fan, Garett, but man...Well, I consider myself a Sal fan, Garett, but man, that's a tall order. Personally, I think he did some of his best work on the Defenders, mainly during Gerber's run on the title, and Rom and Hulk, especially in the early 1980s during Mantlo's run as writer. Also, I very fondly remember his work on the last half of the issues in Marvel's Tarzan. Then there's his work on Marvel Team-up and Spectacular Spider-man, too. Ah, heck, I like it all...Edo Bosnarnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-16792949377683867992014-01-13T13:03:27.097-06:002014-01-13T13:03:27.097-06:00Frankly, one more comment/opinion as to how this s...Frankly, one more comment/opinion as to how this story could have been better..<br /><br />Ronan's characterization. In FF #65 when he was simply 'Ronan the Accuser' he came off a bit more noble/stoic, perhaps aloof and certainly menacing.<br /><br />Here he just comes across as an 'over-the-top' jerk. Love Sal's art, but I got really tired of the panels showing Ronan's gleeful smile especially mocking the attempted Vish-Wanda kiss.<br /><br />It's like when you try too hard to make the villain nasty for 'the sake of being nasty', you lose what grander-scale potential he could have displayed. david_bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00218727673816200051noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-75186443352094724602014-01-13T11:22:53.956-06:002014-01-13T11:22:53.956-06:00Sal's art looks great here! I like the cover d...Sal's art looks great here! I like the cover despite some of the previous comments. I'm not always a Sal fan, as at other times I think his work looks too plain, but here he looks at the top of his game with energy and personality and care in the drawings. For the Sal fans: What do you consider his best work?Garettnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-13730413054123120392014-01-13T10:30:42.690-06:002014-01-13T10:30:42.690-06:00Personally, I never had a problem with the Vision ...Personally, I never had a problem with the Vision being the Original Torch. We've discussed the sort of "flags of our fathers" aspect of DC's generational pantheon; I felt that this was a neat twist on that idea. For me, it became a problem when John Byrne undid it. At that point I didn't think it was necessary to have the Original Human Torch back in the MU.<br /><br />DougDoughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04248324005584963229noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-62889627277953042922014-01-13T10:20:05.219-06:002014-01-13T10:20:05.219-06:00I had to check again in the reviews/comments for b...I had to check again in the reviews/comments for both ish 90 and 91 before mentioning..:<br /><br />So how come Hanks hair turned black during this 'de-evolution'..? <br /><br />Perhaps not a natural blond..? How vain.<br /><br />And to agree with comments here, I recall an 'aha' moment when I first read about Vish being made from the original Torch, but in retrospect it was indeed a lame attempt to keep the MU nice and intereconnected which was wholly NOT necessary.<br /><br />Having the Vision constructed on his very own with only Wondy's engrams would have been sufficient. What would have been next..? The Sentry made out of parts from some old robot in an early FF or Xmen adventure..?? Enough already.david_bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00218727673816200051noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-75412015833755339912014-01-13T10:06:59.929-06:002014-01-13T10:06:59.929-06:00In line with Fred's point about Human Torch/Vi...In line with Fred's point about Human Torch/Vision, the thing that never made sense to me back in the late '70s while reading both Avengers and Invaders was why Vision was so cold and Spock-like, while the original Torch acted like a normal, emotional human. Didn't seem like he would have needed Wonder Man's personality imprinted into his circuits. Of course, I realize all of this has since been retconned, wiped out and/or re-established about a half-dozen times, so I doubt there's any point discussing it...<br /><br />As to this issue and the review, I have to say Doug's point in the last paragraph got me thinking this time around: the story indeed seems to conclude here (there's even that little "finis" caption in the last panel). However, if the reprint collection didn't include these first three issues, I'd feel ripped off. They really do function as sort of a first chapter to the saga. Edo Bosnarnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-70400456532570909972014-01-13T09:13:16.398-06:002014-01-13T09:13:16.398-06:00I always thought the Vision being the original Hum...I always thought the Vision being the original Human Torch was pretty stilly and opened too many cans o' worms. But that's a Roy Thomas obsession that frequently drives me nuts: everything must be interrelated, nothing can stand on its own. Seems like later writers took that and ran with it, as I understand Captain Marvel and Blue Beetle share a power source now, everyone with super speed is related, etc. Drives me bonkers.Doc Savagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08783244633195233970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-87503894296913402702014-01-13T06:47:02.961-06:002014-01-13T06:47:02.961-06:00I get the feeling from the very few Golden Age Hum...I get the feeling from the very few Golden Age Human Torch stories I've read, as well as Roy's Invaders' tales, that many writers forgot that he was an android! And DButler's comment on the difference between the Sentry and the Vision -- that the Vision had "someone's brain waves" -- brings up the question as to how Phineas Horton gave the Torch a human personality and feelings. Fred W. Hillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07602124919964053532noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-56028110688482969502011-10-21T15:18:26.593-05:002011-10-21T15:18:26.593-05:00So much love for Sal! I wish I could send him a li...So much love for Sal! I wish I could send him a link this posting so he could see it.<br /><br />I think Quicksilver had used the cannonball technique back in the early days. Now don't quote me on the 175 mph stat -that's coming from memory! I'll have to dig those Marvel Universe issues out and check.<br /><br />I think the addition of the 'forbidden love' between the Vision and Wanda added some spice, but like most of these situations, once it becomes a real relationship the tension is gone and it sort of peters out. I think their marriage could have been more interesting but unfortunately it weakened the Vision as a character.<br /><br />KarenKarenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17032477453891087135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-49583704386857860182011-10-21T09:20:18.381-05:002011-10-21T09:20:18.381-05:00dbutler --
It's very interesting to see the c...dbutler --<br /><br />It's very interesting to see the contrast in the way Roy wrote the Vision as compared to the Original Human Torch. If one did not know the backstory of the Torch, the fact that he's an android would seem to come as a big surprise.<br /><br />DougDoughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04248324005584963229noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-28222479250064038712011-10-21T09:10:28.784-05:002011-10-21T09:10:28.784-05:00Pietro could only run 175 mph? I’ll have to pull ...Pietro could only run 175 mph? I’ll have to pull out my old Handbooks to the Marvel Universe. For some reason, I thought it was more like 500 mph.<br /><br />I always thought Ronan’s devolving ray was sort of amusing. More of a Silver Age concept, but still fun. It seemed like just a convenient excuse the way the Skrulls attacked, too. Of course, that was a lead-in to a much bigger story! I like how Ronan refers to earth as “this miserable blemish upon the map of the universe”.<br /><br />I think one reason that the Vision is so much more than the Sentry is because he’s more of an artificial man, with “someone’s” brain waves, thus he is capable of independent thought, whereas the Sentry is more of just a smart robot.dbutler16https://www.blogger.com/profile/00046066729353639991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-70713989891813913922011-10-18T09:45:17.716-05:002011-10-18T09:45:17.716-05:00I agree that the cover of this issue isn't the...I agree that the cover of this issue isn't the best - probably because it features too many characters , but I love the cover for No.89. Really makes you want to read the issue to find out what the hell is going on.<br /><br />Sal's art was top notch in these issues. Much more depth to it than some of his later work in the mid-70's. Shows it had it in him given the time, and even a rushed job still was better than most. Always been a favourite. <br /><br />I still think that Roy's ideas were better than his execution. I often stuggle with some of his scripts. Can't put my finger on it (or I'm not educated enough to understand what it is about his style). But, I'm still enjoying the re-reading the issues long with you guys.<br /><br />And I agree with B Smith. I think this was the first issue where the Viz spoke with squared speech ballons. That was how he spoke when I first read him (and they were coloured yellow too) so I always found it strange when reading older issues when he spoke in a "normal" voice. <br /><br />Lookin' forward to Part 4.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04436307600954599534noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-30379998022174494442011-10-18T03:56:53.511-05:002011-10-18T03:56:53.511-05:00Wow, it's nice to see all the love for Sal on ...Wow, it's nice to see all the love for Sal on this thread! Just have to say, given Inkstained's comment about Sal adhering to the "Marvel style" - hell, to me, Sal's art always seemed to be Marvel's house style in the '70s and early '80s. He really defined the look of that era for me.Edo Bosnarnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-68345625799103084972011-10-17T22:27:23.585-05:002011-10-17T22:27:23.585-05:00I'd only been reading The Avengers since #85 (...I'd only been reading The Avengers since #85 (phew, just in time) so was more familiar with Sal B's version than anyone else's - and I was more than happy with it! In fact, this is one of my favourite SB works - he was not well served by all those rushed jobs in years to come.<br /><br />Something about the colouring really boosts this issue too, as well as almost incidental touches like making the Vision's speech balloons the square-with-rounded-corners shape to quietly emphasise his other-than-humanness...I think this might have been the first issue with this effect.B Smithhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18016629838915185467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-348115440912119042011-10-17T15:14:04.317-05:002011-10-17T15:14:04.317-05:00AND... I loved it when Wanda & the Vision almo...AND... I loved it when Wanda & the Vision almost kissed! tee hee hee :DSuper-Duper ToyBoxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08858607320711118146noreply@blogger.com