Bronze Age Babies

It could have been worse -Aquaman, maybe?

2012-01-28T06:00:00.003-06:00

Thanks...

2012-01-28T06:00:00.002-06:00

Doug: As I type this Friday afternoon, you have left almost 90 comments on our blog since this week began with Monday's Marvel Team-Up post. Periodically, when Karen and I have wished you well on a holiday, or when we've published an anniversary post, you've told us how much you appreciate coming here each day. Today we'd like to just reiterate that you are the reason we write this blog. Sure, it's a little selfish because it's an excuse to read comics we've perhaps not seen since we were kids, but overall it's the sense of community that makes us smile. We appreciate each and every one of you, commenter and lurker alike!

Karen: What he said! I've been pretty busy of late and don't post all the time, but I do read every comment. That sense of community is what we were hoping for when we started this blog. Thank you for creating that! And might I add - Excelsior!

Your Favorite Character, Trapped Forever in a Team Book

2012-01-27T06:00:00.014-06:00

Doug: Happy Friday, everyone -- another weekend staring us in the face! Last weekend our friend Rip Jagger published a cool post about the brand-spanking-new Marvel Firsts: the 1970's Volume I. Rip was kind enough to provide cover images for all of the books contained therein. I know I have my copy on reserve from Amazon.com, and I'm sure it will arrive soon.

So anyway, since we are crazy in love with the '70's, and as I often muse over these little four-color pamphlets to which we all have an addiction, this thought occurred to me -- help a brother out by participating in some stimulating conversation today -- of all of the team books you've loved, which character is your favorite who never had their own series? Some nominees:

Hawkeye (mini-series don't count as far as I'm concerned)
Valkyrie
Colossus
Nighthawk

For DC you can go with whatever you want -- so many characters (Batgirl, Elongated Man) had back-ups in some of the Bronze Age mags that I don't know if we should consider those as solo series or not.

So, who ya got?

Thorsday Thrills! The Mighty Thor #222

2012-01-26T06:00:00.014-06:00

Thor #222 (April 1974)
"Before the Gates of Hell!"
Gerry Conway-John Buscema/Joe Sinnott

Doug: We're halfway through a month of random issues of Thor. However, today and next Thursday actually contains consecutive issues in the middle of a Thor/Hercules team-up. While you'll have to suffer through the lack of a beginning, I don't think you'll be disappointed in the action you'll see today. And that art... truly, this was John Buscema and Joe Sinnott at the height of their collaboration!

Doug: We open with a bar scene that could have been ripped from any of Buscema's innumerable Conan stories. The God of Thunder is arm wrestling the Lion of Olympus as the denizens of said mythical Greek civilization surround them. As they spar, we find that they are seeking to determine who shall have the right to face the lord of the underworld, Pluto! What the? Yep -- each feels that it is his right and his alone to strike out for iniquities levied over past issues. But as the table gives way, they don't stop -- instead they continue, locked in full combat! As Olympus begins to crumble around them, a booming voice brings them to a halt. It is mighty Zeus, who chastises their immaturity and lack of forethought -- why not team up? Well, duh...

Karen: I really liked it when Gerry Conway brought Hercules back into Thor. The two made a great pair, with the boisterous Olympian playing well off the grim Asgardian. But the two of them together were often complete lunkheads.

Doug: We next look in on Ares, as he was meant to be -- the Greek God of War, and a bad guy (hear that, Bendis?). Ares wanders on a mount through a woods, when he stops to slake his thirst. While drinking, a troll emerges from the pool and tells Ares that Pluto wants him as an ally in the killing of Hercules. Ares, feeling somewhat slighted by the messenger and not a little perturbed, agrees to meet Pluto at the gates of Hell. And off he rides, brooding.

Karen: I still do not understand how Ares became an Avenger. It's as if no one at Marvel had ever actually read any books he had appeared in.

Doug: Then to Asgard, where Odin, the vizier, Lady Sif, and Hildegarde watch the journey of Thor and Hercules. The women caution that a plot is afoot, but Odin rebukes them. Dismissing them, and assuring Hildegarde that her sister Krista will be rescued from Pluto, Odin turns to the vizier. The wise sage tells the all-father that he detects a hint of a lack of confidence. Odin says it's a father's worry...
Karen: Conway's Odin was a definite improvement over Stan Lee's. One began to wonder if Odin was senile when he kept taking Loki's word over Thor's! But this Odin has mellowed and come to appreciate his fair-haired boy. I've always thought that Buscema's version of Odin actually looks a lot like the artist himself! No, they didn't both have long white beards, but there's something about the All-Father's face that reminds me of pictures I've seen of Big John. Anybody with me? or am I out on a ledge by myself here?

Doug: I can see that. Big John has often been called a big bear of a man, and Buscema's Odin is a massive fellow. Another trait of the artist was his gruff manner -- when's the last time you ever thought of Odin as cuddly?

Doug: As Thor and Hercules walk toward their destiny, they are suddenly descended upon by an army of trolls. Their mistake. The thunder god and demi-god lash out with no holds barred. Of course Hercules is having the time of his life -- any excuse to scrap is a welcome diversion. But it's a violent Thor who offers no quarter, taking full advantage of his mighty sinews and the destructive power of Mjolnir. Trolls lie scattered about the land. Thor and Hercules, surprised by the attack, wonder if they should not think about how Pluto is operating through this. Hercules decides that they should go see an old oracle.

Karen: I guess there is a brain in that curly-haired noggin. The idea of visiting an oracle is perfect for this Greek hero. I really enjoy the mythological stories in Thor and the cross-pantheon ones especially. This was Conway's tribute to the Lee-Kirby Thor classic where Thor went to the Underworld to save Hercules, and he does a great job invoking its memory without copying it.

Doug: John Buscema's at his best when drawing the odd, the old, and the ugly. In the case of Chaga, he gets a three-in-one. She tells our heroes that it is not Pluto they will next encounter, but Ares! And encounter the God of War they do -- but it's Thor who requests the pleasure. Herc defers, and as Thor battles it's pretty funny to watch Hercules sit on the sidelines and actually engage Thor in conversation! But Ares has increased his strength threefold, so this is no light work. The battle rages, until finally gives him a one-two of Mjolnir across the chops and huge uppercut that finishes the fight. Making a death pact, the two godlings enter the cave that will lead them to the depths of Hell.

Karen:It's always exciting to see Thor cut loose. When battling godly menaces, he can really go full out. And I agree with you about Buscema -his "characters" were always a delight to behold.

Doug: This issue was a flat-out blast, and it's due in large part to the phenomenal artwork. Sure, Gerry Conway crafted a cool story (as I said, I don't have the first part, but we'll look in next Thursday at Thor #223 to see how this progresses) -- anytime you get Thor and Hercules together it's going to be a party. One would have to be a pretty poor writer to screw it up -- so Conway does what he should here and let's John Buscema just run wild. If I sound like I'm gushing... well, I am. From the splash page to the concluding brouhaha between Thor and Ares this was 20 minutes very well spent. Hmmm... isn't that the way comics are supposed to be?

Discuss: Comic Creator Names

2012-01-25T06:00:00.001-06:00

Karen: J.A. Morris' recent posting of a link with an interview with Joe Sinnott made both Doug and I realize we had been mispronouncing his last name our entire lives! Turns out the emphasis is on the first syllable. This got us to thinking about other comic book creators' names we've mispronounced or been utterly clueless how to pronounce. I'll get it rolling with this one: writer Doug Moench. For years I pronounced it "Mench" until I heard it spoken as "Monk" at a convention.

Doug: Yeah, I always read that as "Munch". When Karen told me the other day that it was "Monk", that was news to me! Here's one, and I think I read this in Back Issue: I always thought it was Len "Wine", but it is really Len "Ween". Spelled W-e-i-n, what would you think it was?

Karen: I thought it was like "Wayne" until a few years ago! How about Bob McLeod? I think it's pronounced "McLoud" but I might be wrong. And hey, what about Bill Sienkiewicz? I saw it spelled out phonetically once but before that, I had no idea.

Doug: Is it Sin-kay-vich, with the accent on the second syllable? Seems to me that I, too, either saw the phonetic spelling or heard it once. Well, how about a couple of BAB faves, the Buscema brothers? When I was but a wee lad, I pronounced it Busk-e-ma (accent on the first syllable), but I'm thinking it's Byoo-see-muh, with the accent on the second syllable. Of course as we're going through this, our readers should feel free to correct us -- obviously this post is not about us feeling smug!

Karen: I actually did not know how to pronounce Buscema until I interviewed Gerry Conway for Back Issue and he said 'Byoo-sem-uh' -well, at least, that's how he pronounced it!

Doug: Oh ho! Then my emphasis is all wrong -- sounds to me (the way I read it) that the accent goes on the first syllable. See, who says this blog isn't educational? How about one more? Moving ahead to the very end of the Bronze Age -- maybe even a bit beyond -- we come to Jackson "Butch" Guice. When he took over the Flash revival, I assumed his name was pronounced "Goo-chee". Nope. Then I thought it was "Gice". Nope. It is pronounced "Gwice", like "ice" with a hard G and a W in front. Hmmph.

Doug: Up to you now, kids -- how many have shared our name-butchering travails? Are there other creators you get tongue-tied over? Let us know!

Discuss: Hellish Heroes

2012-01-24T06:00:00.004-06:00

Dude, Get Your Hands Off My Chi... Marvel Team-Up 63

2012-01-23T06:00:00.012-06:00

Marvel Team-Up #63 (November 1977)
"Night of the Dragon!"
Chris Claremont-John Byrne/Dave Hunt

Doug: We're heading into the second half of our month-long look at the Claremont/Byrne Marvel Team-Ups with an Iron Fist 2-parter. This one, friends, has some kung fu mayhem and really requires a little Danny Rand history for it to totally make sense. It's been well-documented in these parts that my partner has an infinitely larger background in the non-superhero books, so I'm going to lean heavily on Karen in terms of tying this together. Shall we?

Karen: Iron Fist was a favorite of mine back in the 70's. I probably had about half of the Marvel Premiere issues featuring him, and all of his own title. But not a super-hero title? He has tights on!

Doug: Fair enough on the tights, and I only had a couple of appearances of his. I guess my comment was slanted more toward the B&W magazines, where Mr. Rand also appeared.

Doug: What a great splash page! I'm sure I've commented somewhere along the lines that the elongated figurework that would become a staple of John Byrne's post-Bronze Age output was not always to my liking. Here, early on (somewhat) we see Byrne's superheroes a bit more filled out, almost Romita-like. It's unmistakably Byrne, especially facially, but I think I like his style here a bit more than on, for example, his second run on Fantastic Four. Anyway, Iron Fist is shown in his gym. Seems he's lost a bit of his edge and is concerned that he'll need it if a life-and-death situation crops up. Ah, foreshadowing. While he pushes himself, who should soon appear at his door but one Peter Parker, on assignment for the Daily Bugle. Pete's supposed to photograph Danny Rand's townhome -- must have been for the Bugle's Sunday magazine section. Pete hands Danny a rolled up note that was stuck in the door; however, as soon as Danny reads it we know there isn't going to be a shoot today!

Karen: I like how Peter thinks to himself that Rand's living room is bigger than his whole apartment! Poor Pete.

Doug: Of course Pete's brushed off, and as he exits the building he scales the wall and changes into his Spidey gear. Looking over the roof, Spidey sees Danny Rand enter a taxi -- a well-placed Spider-tracer should take care of finding Rand's future location. Seems that as Danny had read the note from his door, he recognized it as a challenge from an old acquaintance.

Karen: Peter's being a bit of a detective here, noticing not only Rand's sudden distress, but that he "moves like a trained athlete, and his hands - they're rough and calloused, like a fighter's."

Doug: Junior Batman, that's our Pete! We then cut to a huge yacht off the Jersey coast, where Misty Knight (operating as a spy) is doing her best Pam Grier impersonation while cuddling up to a hood named Bushmaster. Our baddie has just been alerted that a hit will go down that very evening, a hit on Iron Fist! Misty, upon hearing that the object of her affection is in danger, tears into Bushmaster and his body guards. This is one bad mama! I was unaware that Misty had a "bionic right arm", but she uses it just as well as Jamie Sommers ever did! Misty commandeers a motor boat and speeds away from the yacht, her cover blown. She hopes to reach Iron Fist in time!

Karen: The Iron Fist book was in the middle of a major storyline when it was canceled. Serendipitously, Claremont was writing MTU at the time, and what better place to tie up those loose ends? I have to wonder though if this story made much sense to the uninitiated. As for Misty, I agree, the whole sequence here made me think of Pam Grier or Teresa Graves (Anyone remember Get Christie Love?). I always thought her bionic arm was a little too gimmicky but it was the 70's after all.

Doug: Spidey lost the cab in traffic, but upon catching up to the signal gets the drop on Iron Fist's location. We move ahead a bit and find Iron Fist moving through the woods of a large city park, when he's suddenly confronted by the Steel Serpent, a mysterious figure claiming to be from before Iron Fist's past! With no chance to back out, Iron Fist instead confronts his bigger, stronger nemesis. What follows is a couple of pages of kung fu fighting, and I have to ask -- how did Byrne do with the choreography? I've seen some Paul Gulacy Master of Kung Fu, and I guess for me this is not that.

Karen: I love Steel Serpent's costume; the blue-green-white color scheme and the wide sash just look great. I think Byrne does good work with the fight scene. But Claremont has Iron Fist giving a mental play by play of what moves are being used that is just flat-out ridiculous. These two expert fighters are moving at lightning speed and Fist is thinking, "I just did this, now he's countering with that, but I'll do this..." I get the feeling Claremont wanted to show the readers how much research he had done, and it just fails miserably.

Doug: Perhaps it was indeed the words I found distracting -- maybe my questioning of the pictures is misplaced. But something did feel off about the battle scenes. It's interesting that we can see the Steel Serpent's eyes in his mask, while Iron Fist, whose costume is basically the same, has the "Spider-Man" eyes.

Doug: Well, this is after all Marvel Team-Up, so despite the fact that Iron Fist probably knew what he was doing, Spider-Man decides to intervene on his behalf -- after setting up his remote camera, natch! Steel Serpent is having none of it, however, and spider-strength, -speed, and -agility don't seem to amount to a hill of beans in this fracas. Spider-man is taken out immediately, and in the distraction Iron Fist loses his focus (something he'd been lamenting as our story began) and allows Steel Serpent to get into close quarters. Pressing his own serpent tattoo against Danny's dragon tattoo, the chi, or life energy, is drained from Iron Fist and into Steel Serpent. In a blinding flash of light, Iron Fist lies defeated at the feet of his conqueror.

Karen: I thought the full-page drawing here was very effective, with Serpent bristling with energy and Fist falling away like a rag doll.

Doug: Misty arrives just as this goes down, and she's not happy. Brandishing a ray gun, she threatens Steel Serpent and tells him to put Iron Fist down and back away. Content that his mission is accomplished, Steel Serpent obliges, and fades away into the forest. Spider-Man, recovered, approaches Iron Fist's lifeless body. He's suddenly brushed aside by a frantic Misty Knight, who kneels and cradles Iron Fist in a pose reminiscent of The Pieta of Michelangelo. As they say, to be continued!

Discuss: Iconic Weapons

2012-01-21T09:26:00.008-06:00

Of the three characters pictured, who has the most iconic weapon? Which is more closely associated with its master, and which character is more differently portrayed without it (please discount the "Don Blake 60-second rule")? Which do you like better?

For a broader version of this discussion, check out Karen's Open Forum from about a year ago.

Discuss: Marvel Super-Heroes, 1966

2012-01-20T06:00:00.001-06:00

Thorsday Thrills! The Mighty Thor #205

2012-01-19T06:00:00.023-06:00

Thor #205 (November 1972)
"A World Gone Mad!"
Gerry Conway-John Buscema/Vince Colletta

Doug: Welcome to the second installment of a month of random Thors. Last week the God of Thunder and his father were caught up in a tiff with the uber-nasty, Infinity. Today's heavy-hitter is the epitome of nasty.

Doug: Did you check the creator credits above? Yep, after last week's familiar art team featuring the inks of Joe Sinnott, this week we get Vinnie Colletta. And it's not a match made in heaven. While most of us may even applaud the Kirby/Colletta pairing on Thor, this mash-up isn't so hot. Colletta overpowers many of the faces, and the figures drawn with the reader at a distance can appear clunky. I'd also argue that Vinnie gives off a Frank Robbins vibe at times, too. And I have no idea if anything was erased...

Karen: You know, I didn't mind Vinnie here, but then, I did like how he looked with Kirby on the title. However, I'll agree that there are better inkers for Buscema.

Doug: This story is not unlike one of the Mephisto/Silver Surfer yarns played out in the Surfer's mag, or some of the later graphic novels. Where this book differs is that the God of Thunder has a certain brashness about him, and while just as noble as Norrin Radd, Thor's just not gonna take the devil's crap lying down. As we begin, the entire cast is in the depths of Hell, as Mephisto threatens to take over the Earth. But in order to do so, he must vanquish Earth's most noble soul -- Thor's. And to do that, the Thunder God will face trial after trial.

Karen: I think you nailed it. Thor is subbing for the Surfer in this story. Although I've never thought of the thunder god as being particularly messianic. Uncharacteristically chivalrous for a Viking god, yes. But not Christ-like.

Doug: The first trial is against an army of demons. Strong, fighting tooth and nail amidst the blazing fires, the demons stick to Thor. But with the enchantment of Mjolnir, he scatters them. Mephisto then goes right to his best trump card, a possessed Lady Sif. She comes at Thor with an axe, and raises it to smite her beloved. Thor dodges, disarms his lady, and tells Mephisto that he will not win with such tactics. So the demon-lord moves to his next strategy -- the possession of men of influence from around the world. But before that plan can even see its fruition, Mephisto segues right into the next dark machination -- an attack by Balder the Brave and the Warriors Three.

Karen: Hmm, this book was published in 1972. Would readers have been shocked at the idea of politicians possessed by demons? Even before Watergate, that doesn't seem too big a leap!

Doug: Well, there must be some explanation... Thor will have none of this plot, either. Rather than lay a hand on his devoted friends, the Thunder God first defends himself and then uses Mjolnir to create a vortex. The entranced Asgardians are transported to the top of a rocky tower, and the mystical hammer then propels boulders after them to encase them -- a barrier of protection from Mephisto. As Thor turns to face his tormentor, a spell is cast and the evil one summons those who have worshiped him throughout history -- some of the vilest men to have ever walked the Earth. Among them scowl the visages of Genghis Khan, Blackbeard, Jack the Ripper, and Adolf Hitler. Along with the Fuhrer comes a ragtag band of SS... the God of Thunder shows no mercy, as Mjolnir tears through the assemblage. Thor uses his mallet again to dispense the Mongols.

Karen: It's absolutely amazing all the stuff that hammer could do! Thor really was Marvel's Superman back then. I'm just waiting for Mjolnir to somehow give Thor the power of ventriloquism! Of course, seeing Thor take on hellish Nazis was fun, even if only for a panel or two.

Doug: Mephisto is now getting a bit more than peeved. He screams at Thor that he must have his immortal soul. Thor again wades through an army of oppressors to finally reach the devil himself. But upon laying a hand on Mephisto, the Thunder God begins to burn. As Mephisto turns up the heat (literally), Thor whacks him full across the chops with his hammer, staggering the demon. When Mephisto tries to bury Thor with a boulder, the Thunder God instead launches himself right into the devil's gut and puts him in a choke hold. Picking the dark lord off the ground and holding him high, Thor propels him headlong into a pit of lava. As Mephisto surfaces defiantly, Thor rains down tons and tons of rock, effectively sealing the demon beneath the lava. Beginning the journey back to the surface world, Thor fears that he must now face life alone. He is jubilant to find that when Mephisto fell silent, his spells over the Asgardians were broken.

Karen: How tough is Mephisto anyway? He really gives Thor a tussle here. I'd always thought of him in a more metaphysical sense, causing heroes to go through spiritual crises, but in this ish he goes mano a mano with Thor quite impressively.

Doug: This issue was sort of a mixed bag for me. On the one hand, you really can't beat John Buscema's rendering of Mephisto... he simply owns that character. And while Buscema's figurework was evident, Colletta's sometimes-sloppy inking often buried the grandeur of those pencils. As to Conway's script, it was definitely serviceable, but not wholly unpredictable. That the endgame was brought about by Thor's figuring out that had he struck back against any of his friends Mephisto would have owned his soul, was a fair conclusion. In the end it was one big battle issue, and for a superhero mag that can't be all bad. That it took place with all sorts of vile characters did make it visually interesting.

Karen: The story itself was, as you say, serviceable, but not Conway's best on the title. It was however, a nice showcase for the thunder god's innate nobility, as well as his sheer power.

Of Ogres, +2 Swords, and Doritos

2012-01-18T06:00:00.011-06:00

Karen: When I was a kid I used to play Dungeons and Dragons. A lot. For me it started with the boxed Basic set, then quickly turned to Advanced Dungeons and Dragons, and the Player's Manual, Monster Manual, Dungeon Master's Guide, and all the additional books. Too young to drive, I'd enlist my mother, who was always happy to indulge my odd interests, and she would take me and my friends out to the hobby store in a near-by town, where I would buy Grenadier miniatures or some more poly-sided dice.

I was the DM (dungeon master for the uninitiated) for my little group of friends. I would spend weeknight evenings crafting adventures for them to play, poring over the rule books and populating my scenarios with creatures like Gelatinous Cubes and Beholders. On Saturday afternoons, we'd get together and spend anywhere from 4 to 6 hours caught up in a world of our mutual creation. Monsters would be slain, gold would be taken, and magical treasures would be wagered for, all while we drank Cokes and snacked on Doritos and Zingers.

Each person in the group had a different approach to the game. One friend, who mapped for the players, was a problem solver. She loved figuring out how to get past traps or answer riddles. Another was a role player, acting out everything his character did and speaking like his character. One was all about becoming more powerful and obtaining treasure. Another just seemed to enjoy rolling the colorful dice! But despite the fact that it was all happening in our heads, we'd often spend our lunch breaks at school talking about our past exploits. To this day, I remember a battle with a red dragon where the valiant ranger Diogenes was slain -which of course, lead to another adventure to find a way to resurrect him!

There was a lot of negative press for D&D back in those days. Some people tried to link it to Satanism or teen suicide. Baloney. If anything, it was a great outlet for geeky kids to get together and have fun and to let their creative juices flow. I went on to play other RPGs later on, but D&D was the first and probably the most dear to my heart.

Nowadays I play games like Dragon's Age and Skyrim on my computer, and I enjoy them a lot. The graphics are just incredible. But a part of me still misses the interaction I had with others back when we all sat around a table and had an adventure together. Even multi-player online games can't compare with actually being in the same room together, talking and laughing and having a good time. I did briefly play D&D again as an adult with some friends and we had a great time. But that was many years ago, and I'm not sure where I'd find the time -or the right people - to do it now. I have too many other things I'm interested in. But I still look back on my playing days fondly.

So anybody else want to share their thoughts and experiences on the grand-daddy of all RPGs?

Super-Hero Soap Operas

2012-01-17T06:00:00.008-06:00

Doug: So if you're like me, you've been reading comic books for around 40 years or so (egad...). Along the way, various creators have left their imprints on the titles and characters we love. For better or worse, "character development" takes place -- our protagonists are put into situations that should change them for the better. However, with decades of backstory, the inevitable retcons, deaths-and-resurrections, costume changes, and general adventures, suddenly there becomes a lot of baggage.

Doug: So in the world of comics readers and your friends who are not, you find yourself talking to a comics-Gentile -- one not among the chosen, an outsider to our four-color faith. And then the inevitable question comes: "Tell me why you like X so much. What's so cool about that character/book?" And you decide you're going to start at the beginning, because that's such a good place to begin anyway, and move forward in the narrative. And suddenly it occurs to you that you know too much. Your closet door has suddenly exploded open.

Doug: Which character or team has the most convoluted, even silly history? Think about all of the books you've read -- which one would you start talking about and feel like you were in the middle of a soap opera -- I might as well be talking about dating my mail carrier, having kids with the boss's step-daughter, being abducted by aliens, and hiding jewels on behalf of the Mafia.

Doug: Let's hear it!

It's A Bug's Life: Marvel Team-Up 60

2012-01-16T06:00:00.007-06:00

Marvel Team-Up #60 (August 1977)
"A Matter of Love... and Death!"
Chris Claremont-John Byrne/Dave Hunt

Karen: Howdy folks. You might recall that at the end of part one of our story, it looked as if Yellowjacket had joined that big hive in the sky, as our villain Equinox caused a tanker truck to explode, catching YJ in the flames. As we begin part two, Equinox is excitedly yelling that he has killed an Avenger. This sets off that other Avenger, YJ's wife the Wasp, but sadly, her powers are no match for the villain. Spidey pulls Jan away just as she's about to get blasted.

Doug: I found the dialogue to be really clunky in the first few pages. Again (I just want to curse myself every time I suggest this), a little decompression would have been more impactful in regard to the way Jan's emotions played out. While Byrne's pictures are definitely pretty to look at, I'm finding that Chris Claremont is struggling to get away from the dock. And what should we make of Equinox? I sense that he's a minor-leaguer, and more trouble than he's worth. He is sort of cool-looking, however, especially the way the heat/ice alternates on his body.

Karen: Sure, there were a few rough spots here and there, but all in all, I thought Claremont did well. I agree that Equinox seems like a minor threat - I think that was a frequent problem with the MTU villains. If Spidey can handle Electro on his own, Equinox doesn't seem like he should be so difficult. But that's who we got here. Spidey and Jan begin to question Dr. Sorenson, the mother of Equinox. She defends her son by saying the thermodynamic processes in his body are affecting his mind, but that doesn't go over well with the Wasp. She grabs the doctor and yells at her, prompting Spider-Man to pull her off. Wasp snaps at him, saying. "Who've you ever lost?" Uh oh...Why not just drive a dagger in his heart? Spider-Man quietly responds, "Someone very close." But before that conversation can go any further, Equinox is on the move again, tossing cars like toys as he pursues our heroes. Dr. Sorenson tries using an experimental ray on him, but to no avail. Spidey scoops up the doc and swings off with the Wasp right behind. They realize they're going to have to have a plan. Since the Avengers are out of town, they head for (where else?) the Baxter Building.

Doug: Byrne's visual of Spidey with his shoulders seemingly slumped, head bowed and the hesitation in his voice is solid, even if it is a very narrow panel. I'd have liked to have seen floating heads of not only Gwen, but how about of Uncle Ben, too? And back to my previous comment, about the lack of emotional feeling coming through in the first scenes -- for me this just segued back into standard superheroing a little too quickly. I know Equinox was a violent menace bent on not only Spidey-destruction but property destruction in general, but... Ah, maybe I'm just being old and grumpy.

Karen: During their trip to see the FF, Dr. Sorenson explains how her son Terry came to be Equinox. Frankly it's kind of boring but essentially her scientist husband grew resentful of her success and started physically taking it out on her. She finally left him, but one night as she came to see him (not sure why) his house blew up. Seventeen year-old Terry ran in to save his dad but was caught in some strange energy beams, and of course, became Equinox. She tried to reverse the process but couldn't. Terry got crazy, and began a life of crime.

Doug: I guess if Barry Allen could become the Flash from some lightning and chemicals, then anything's fair. Here's a question for you -- since Equinox is apparently not wearing any clothes, then why does his head look as if he's wearing Wolverine's mask? Was that a cosmetic sort of thought so that in his first appearance readers could keep the bad guy separate from the Torch and Iceman?

Karen: Yeah, Equinox seems oddly inhuman. Besides the strange head shape, he also has fangs. If anything, he looks sort of demonic, which would make sense if his origin was a supernatural one. But otherwise, it's just weird. Once at the Baxter Building, Wasp is able to gain access with her Avengers ID card (don't leave home without it). As they enter the building though, the lights go out. Seems Equinox has zapped a sub-station nearby. Of course, Reed Richards would never rely purely on NYC's power grid, so the lights come back up immediately -however, the power loss means the building is operating off the back-up computer, and apparently it doesn't know that our heroes are authorized to be there! Lasers start firing and Spidey scrambles to get Dr. Sorenson to safety. But the door of the room he enters locks behind them, leaving Wasp on the other side. Jan's OK though -in fact, better than OK. She seems to be faster and stronger than ever before. Instinctively, she knows this is Hank's doing. She enters the ventilation system and flies to the main control room, where she shuts off the security system.

Doug: I really liked the panel where the Wasp rips open the grill. Her facial expression was well done. Four panels after that, there's an image that looks like it was ripped right out of Avengers #83 when the Wasp first spied the Lady Liberators. Didn't you think she negotiated those air ducts just a bit too easily?

Karen: Were you expecting there to be lasers in them too, like in The Andromeda Strain? Honestly, the thought never occurred to me! While Wasp has been having fun, Spidey and Dr. Sorenson have been holed up in the FF lab, improving her device. Unfortunately, using it on Equinox means being in close contact. And of course, who should show up but Equinox himself, burning a hole in the wall to make his entrance. Man, are the FF gonna be PO'ed!

Doug: Yeah, whoa -- what about how ol' "Noxie" (shoot me -- I hate that name) got to the point where he could blow out the wall? He scaled the Baxter Building like King Kong! Ummm..... Do you think Dr. Sorenson questioned Spidey's scientific aptitude? Parker assembled that new weapon about as quickly as Reed Richards himself would have. But back to the Baxter Building, and this thought would ring true in regard to Avengers Mansion as well -- don't you think there would be better security around the perimeter of the building? I mean, I realize these places are supposed to be right on a city block, with civilians all around. But I can't help but think that, with access to the Negative Zone just inside (for example), getting close to that sort of thing was just too easy.

Karen: Spidey takes on Equinox by himself, wishing the Wasp was there "to distract Noxie" but finds he's in trouble. Suddenly, a figure appears -is it the Wasp? The Thing? Aunt Petunia? No! It's Yellowjacket! That's right, he's not dead! Equinox is shocked, Spidey is shocked -but the Wasp, who has just flown into the room, is really shocked. Hank tells her to let Equinox have it with her stingers -and amazingly, they blast him across the room. While the thermodynamically challenged youth is still reeling, YJ slaps Dr. Sorenson's device on him and it stops his fire and ice powers -although he isn't quite human looking. Jan throws herself at Hank, who explains that when the truck blew up, he shrank to insect size and rode the shock waves. It rendered him unconscious but not dead. He also says that Jan's increased powers are due to a serum he gave her -her birthday present. Now the smaller she gets, the more powerful she gets. It took the adrenalin rush she felt when she thought Hank had died to activate it. YJ, Wasp, and Dr. Sorenson head off with Equinox in tow to see the police, leaving behind a poor wall-crawler who hopes he can clean up the Baxter Building before the FF come back.

Doug: The ending was good -- I really thought it was cool that Spider-Man felt like he should clean up. Nice detail. Of course since I'm using the new trade paperback, I peeked ahead to the next issue to see what happened next. The clean-up excuse was a nice bridge between issues 60 and 61. I didn't have a problem with the explanation of YJ's reappearance, although I wonder how long it took him to figure out that our cast had relocated to the Baxter Building. By the way, and maybe our readers will have to help us out here -- you cited the panel where YJ says they are taking Equinox to the police. Sure he's depowered, and is wearing the dampening harness-doohickey. Where did super-baddies end up back in 1977? Was the Vault open for business yet?

Karen: This was a fun romp, just a simple little story that delivered some solid entertainment. It was nice to see YJ and Wasp outside of the Avengers -that didn't happen too often!

Doug: I agree with you about the two-part story, and about the little Avengers -- and that may seem surprising given some of my criticisms above. I do believe that if Claremont had written this a bit later, after he'd become more comfortable with Spider-Man it might have been better. But Byrne's art really holds it together. By the way, if anyone is wondering where this 2-parter fits in with his X-Men writing schedule, these Marvel Team-Up issues fall right around X-Men #'s 105-106 -- and you may immediately recognize that the Claremont/Byrne run in the X-Men had not yet begun! Of course, they had been a creative duo on Iron Fist for well over a year, however. Hey -- news you can use!

Artistic License?

2012-01-13T06:00:00.002-06:00

Doug: We're talking uniforms/costumes today, kids. What is your opinion of super-suits being revamped, or even just tweaked, when a new artist comes onto a title? Or, and maybe this is even worse, what's your opinion on a character who appears in more than one title and one of his pencilers tosses in his own "personal touch" while the other remains true to the current character design? These can be somewhat subtle changes, such as a different look for Batman's utility belt running between Batman and Detective Comics.

Doug: Most of us are fond of Dave Cockrum's costume re-designs for the Legion of Super-Heroes in the early 1970's. However, in hindsight some of them are quite gawdawful -- and didn't Mike Grell just take that ball and run with it? Who among you would be strutting your stuff in the togs of Cosmic Boy, or of Tyroc? Yeah, you'd look sweet in those little white elf shoes, Killer! I'm certain there were many Legion fans who had been with the team since it's inception who were quite put-off by this young intruder to the canon that was Legion lore.

Doug: And what of classic outfits that stand the test of time, like Hawkeye's suit (although from recent artwork I've seen he's now apparently dressed as he will be in the Avengers feature film)? We've commented ourselves on the abrupt change in manliness tossed Clint Barton's way -- thank goodness they switched him back! Certain characters, like the Pyms, seem to change fashions all the time. For me, it's almost as if that has become a vital aspect of their very characters -- it bothers me not.

Doug: So let's hear it -- where do you stand on costume tweaks and/or re-designs? Do you have some favorites? How about panning a few here and there? And as always, thanks for your participation!

Thorsday Thrills! The Mighty Thor #186

2012-01-12T06:00:00.008-06:00

Thor #186 (March 1971)
"Worlds at War!"
Stan Lee-John Buscema/Joe Sinnott

Doug: Hi! For the next four weeks I'll be taking a peek at some random issues of Thor -- all of which were culled from the giving hands of a couple of eBay sellers several months ago. Today we'll begin shortly after Silver became Bronze, and next week we'll jump ahead to the 20c "framed cover" era. My Thor collection is long gone (converted to cash on behalf of the quest for the complete run of the Avengers), and I don't have the Essentials that contain these issues... so when I say this is random, well you'd better believe it's going to be random! On with the show --

Doug: And truthfully, you and I are thrust headlong into the middle of a story -- and we'll be thrust headshort out of it that way, too! Odin is in pitched battle with Infinity as we "splash", and the text box on said page states: "Ruled by a super-powerful being known only as Infinity -- the far-off world beyond threatens to destroy the universe! Seeking to save the cosmos, lordly Odin has dared to enter the world beyond -- together with the mysterious Silent One. But now, as Odin battles Infinity -- he senses danger to the mighty Thor, who has followed -- to aid his father --" Odin is blasting away, and the strain on him is obvious. But as he battles, he senses that Thor has reverted to his human form and is facing great menace. Indeed, the Allfather is able to divert his attention slightly, where he spies a hulking warrior with four massive arms closing on Dr. Donald Blake. Knowing that only Mjolnir will save the royal offspring, Odin wills that it should appear. In time, Thor now stands opposed to his would-be killer.

Doug: With one mighty blow, the Thunder God fells his nemesis. But as he turns to leave, hoping to reach Odin in time to assist him, the giant is hit by an energy bolt from the darkness of Infinity, and rises. Having declared that he is indeed an agent of Infinity, it makes sense why he's come back for more. Well, Goldilocks wallops him upside the head again, and down he goes -- again. But wait for it -- yep, one more time. And one more time down he goes. This time, though, Thor (being smarter than the average bear) uses his mystical mallet to encircle the would-be assassin in a dome of energy that repels the predictable blast from Infinity. Case closed.

Doug: Now speeding through time and space to find his father, Thor comes upon the mysterious Silent One, waving the Thunder God back. Offended at this, Thor raises his hammer to smite the elderly one, but is stopped by the roar of Odin. As is typical, the brash son questions the father -- uh uh. Not advisable. It's now Odin who threatens a good smiting, and Thor accedes. Suddenly the Silent One gestures for Thor to follow him, and the Thunder God feels that perhaps he will at last have an answer as to what is happening. We then get a couple of cutaway scenes, as the impact of the battle with Infinity is felt around the cosmos. On Earth, astronomers struggle to explain what is happening as natural disasters strike American cities. And on Asgard, the noble Warriors Three are under a trance-like spell. Sealed in a heavy cell, they break out as Lady Sif and the Vizier talk about the Odinsword. It has begun to inch out of its sheath, and as all know -- once it is out, Ragnarok will come!

Doug: Fandral, Hogun, and Volstagg have burst forth with an oath to finish withdrawing the Odinsword. Sif opposes them, and then Balder the Brave enters the fray. Banging a gong (get it on), the Vizier summons the warriors of Asgard. Under the shear weight of the masses, the Warriors Three succumb. But the threat of Infinity is not over, as even watchful Heimdahl remarks that time and space are not right -- as he's never seen it. Cut back to Thor and the Silent One, who continue to journey. Finally reaching their destination, Thor is shocked when the old man falls suddenly forward in worship -- of Hela, Queen of the Dimension of Death. What the?!? It seems the Silent One was an emissary of Hela, sent to be her eyes and ears. It was his job, her will, to bring Thor to the Netherworld. And Hela doesn't plan on him leaving! Thor resists, but he's no match for her as a force of nature. He begins to wither away, eventually looking older than the Silent One. But something unforeseen happens -- as the last of Thor's lifeforce is about to evacuate his body, the Silent One steps forward and touches the Thunder God. A tear in his eye, the craggy old man donated his own lifeforce to save a god!

Doug: Now restored, Thor speeds back through time and space to aid the Allfather Odin. But as he approaches, Infinity has seemingly overwhelmed Odin -- he falls! But as Thor approaches, the Lord of Asgard rises -- with the same entranced look we saw earlier in the Warriors Three! As the teaser for the next issue bellows, "Thor vs. Odin!"

Doug: This was an action-packed issue! I am not wholly certain what the heck was going on... a look at the covers around this issue tells me that this was a four-issue arc. The art team of John Buscema and Joe Sinnott was stellar as always -- we've beat the dog dead that Sinnott exerted a lot of influence on Big John's pencils, but for me it's a comfortable, reliable look. I would criticize one point, however, and that's the lack of backgrounds in approximately 10% of the panels. You may think that's a nitpick, but I'd offer that for the most part it seems that the panels are rendered with great detail. It almost makes me wonder if Vinnie Colletta didn't wander by and see the pages laying on a table! Speaking of panels, and of panel lay-outs: Can anyone recall off the top of their head if Big John very often burst the bounds of the panel line, a la Adams, Steranko, or Colan? Seems to me that Buscema remained pretty conventional. Stan's script is fine -- nothing spectacular (no truly memorable Stan-isms), but by 1971 most of us are aware that Stan was releasing his hold on his writing chores to head to the realm of publishing.

Discuss: Wolverine

2012-01-11T06:00:00.000-06:00

Karen: Hard to believe, but we've never had a post dedicated to that crazy Canuck, Wolverine. He's one of the few comics characters created post-1960s who is in the top tier popularity-wise, but there's also been some backlash against him too. Let's hear your thoughts on the runt.

Comic Shop Memories

2012-01-10T06:00:00.006-06:00

Karen: My very first "real" job was at my small town's comic shop. The phrase "shotgun shack" is an apt description; the space was about 8 feet wide and 25 feet long. With the long boxes stacked along either wall, the actual walking space from end to end was no more than 3 feet wide. It was cramped, with dim lighting and cracks in the walls. Yet, it was an honest to goodness real comic book shop, something I had never even imagined existed until Mr. Markgraf opened his store. (None of these pictures are of his shop -I simply added them for flavor.)

I was a regular customer from the age of 11 up. When I hit my teens, I struggled to find a job. I applied at all the usual places (the new mall was a popular site for teen job-seekers) but nothing came my way. Then, Mr. Markgraf asked me one day if I'd be interested in working in the shop part-time. As Mary Jane said to Peter Parker, "You just hit the jackpot!"

When I look back on it now I am amazed that my parents let me do it, as the days that I worked, I was the only person in the shop! But it really was a different world back then. Hiring me gave the owners a chance to have a few days off each week and even go on trips. I started out working two days a week but it moved up to three and sometimes four at a time. I'd also sometimes come in on Wednesdays and assist with putting the new comics out. Being alone in the shop usually wasn't scary though. Well, except for the time a guy I'd never seen before lurched through the door and asked me, "Are you alone in here?" That was a wee bit disturbing.

I knew I had a good thing going. I could read as many comics as I liked, for free. This was the early 80s and the independent market had come alive, so I was reading all sorts of stuff. It was here that I was first exposed to Elfquest and Nexus (back when Nexus was in a magazine format). Mr. Markgraf was a smart guy; he probably knew he'd get back a fair amount of what he paid me. At least I got a discount.

My friends enjoyed coming by, too. Most of them weren't comics fans but they were all geeks of one sort or another, and it had higher prestige with them than working at Hot Dog on a Stick. One of my friends did read comics and sometimes she and I would sit behind the register with a big stack of books to peruse.

Now don't think I didn't help the customers; I did. I offered suggestions, found back issues, and generally chatted them up. For the most part, it was fun meeting other fans. But there were always those customers that I dreaded seeing. There were the ones who you could smell as soon as they opened the door. In that confined space, especially in the summertime, and without an air conditioner, it was nearly lethal. There was the the shambling mess of man who had an ever-present crust of snot around his nose, who loved to share his knowledge. For hours. There was the uber nerd who would come in and start arguments with me over comics history. Even when I dug a book out to prove him wrong, he'd insist he was right.

Perhaps the worst though was the sheriff's deputy who was always trying to pick me up. Seriously, I was a teen-ager and this man must have been in late thirties. He'd come in, all puffed up in his uniform, with his pomaded hair and talk about some criminal he'd caught or some other exploit. A couple of times he pulled out his revolver to show me. He would ask if I was seeing anyone and I was smart enough to say yes. It didn't really deter him though.

But despite those things, it is a job I look back on fondly. When I go into comic shops now, I always scan them with my past in mind. I'm often awed at how much space some shops now have, or the great displays they put up. I always note the level of cleanliness, or lack thereof; whether the shop focuses on new product or has a strong back issue inventory; and of course, how they treat their customers. I've been in far too many stores where the employees never even acknowledge your presence. But that type of store seems to be disappearing. Most of the shops I have patronized in the last ten years make an effort to welcome their customers. There's been a lot of diversification, just to survive, and many shops are a combination of comic, game, and toy store. But one thing hasn't changed: the role of the shop as a place for comic geeks to get together and express their love -or hate! -for their hobby. I hear many of the same discussions now as I did then; oh sure, the names may change, but it's still pretty much the same. It's oddly reassuring.

With the decline of bookstores, I wonder if the comic shop is not far behind. Here in Phoenix, our biggest comic seller, Atomic Comics, went out of business suddenly last summer. All four stores closed. But thankfully a number of other stores appear to be going strong. I would really hate to see them disappear. Comic shops are like a safe haven, a clubhouse for comics fans where they can be themselves and find like-minded people. I suppose if they did disappear there would still be conventions, but it's not the same as having a place to go week after week in your own community. Long live the LCS!

Isn't It Great When Hank's Heroic? Marvel Team-Up #59

2012-01-09T06:00:00.010-06:00

Marvel Team-Up #59 (July 1977)
"Some Say Spidey Will Die by Fire... Some Say by Ice!"
Chris Claremont-John Byrne/Dave Hunt

Doug: Welcome one and all to the first of a four-part look at the Claremont/Byrne Marvel Team-Ups. Karen suggested this to me about a month ago, and as fate would have it Marvel Comics released a trade paperback of these very issues just in time for Christmas! If you'll recall, we've already reviewed a 2-parter from this run, showcasing Havok and Thor against the Living Monolith. This time around we're checking in on Yellowjacket and the Wasp, and then Iron Fist and the Daughters of the Dragon. So, without further ado...

Doug: I feel it only responsible to bring up a major continuity issue right from the get-go. If you notice the cover date above, July 1977, then perhaps like me you may have wondered just where this story dovetails with the Avengers. Let's face it -- if you're reading a story about Dr. Henry Pym in the late 1970's-early 1980's, you have to worry about his mental state. Well, lo and behold if this 2-parter didn't hit the spinner racks at exactly the same time as Avengers #'s 161 and 162. Hmmph. What do you make of that?

Karen: Apparently listening to Spidey's wisecracks are what drove Hank over the deep end.

Doug: We begin with Spider-Man about to swing across the East River, after a Sunday dinner at his Aunt May's house. Suddenly a fire blast engulfs our hero, forcing him to let go of his webline (he says he had to let go before he burned? Did you wonder why?). But as he prepares to release another line, he's ripped across the chops by a baseball bat-sized bolt of ice. Unconscious, Webhead plummets toward the river. A short distance away, however, our co-stars are about to get it on (yeah, baby) when both Avengers spy Spider-Man's plight. To me, there are two keys in this scene: The first is Jan's statement that she's basically not seen Hank for a week as he's been holed up in his lab -- could this be the time when Ultron got to him and corrupted him? Additionally, Hank himself comments that he's increased his powers tenfold. Could the incorporation of his molecular disruptor gun into his wings have had anything to do with the mental instability we'd see in the "Bride of Ultron" storyline?

Karen: First of all, I have to say that I've always thought Byrne drew a great Spidey. He seemed to 'get' the character, at least from a physical sense. His web-slinger was always acrobatic yet powerful. Regarding Jan and Hank, I think Jan and Sue Richards should get together and commiserate. What is it with these eggheads, always neglecting their wives. I do think you could spin some sort of excuse for Hank's impending breakdown out of his work, but I doubt that there was any collaboration between Claremont and Shooter over this. It does work though.

Doug: Hank, now apparently faster than a speeding bullet, plucks Spidey from the water. You'll notice right away that a major improvement in Hank's powers is that he doesn't have to shrink to fly. I thought this looked weird -- I had the same feeling years later when Jan's powers were augmented such that she only had to shrink to around four feet to sprout her wings and fly. Hank brings Spider-Man back to the Pyms' apartment, stating that it's as well-equipped as any hospital. Funny, though, that all they do is seat him in front of the fireplace with a blanket over his legs! I've thought for a long time that medical expenses are ridiculously high... Spidey comes to, and the Avengers question him about his misfortunes. Spider-Man recounts how the Torch (shown in all his red-suited glory in a flashback) and Iceman once battled a super-baddie named Equinox, a thermo-dynamic man. Equinox possessed the ability to shoot flames from his icy hands, or ice from his flaming body.

Karen: I never really understood how those fins on Hank's shoulders (never looked like wings to me) allowed him to fly, so I really didn't question him flying at full-size. I thought it was funny that he didn't want Jan to help him, since she wasn't wearing an outift made of unstable molecules, and therefore would have to fly in her birthday suit. There's a panel in there when Spidey is unconscious and he pictures Gwen falling -that was a nice touch. I love how Spidey is able to quickly figure out who his attacker is, all based on some idle chit chat with the Torch! That was a wee bit too convenient, but it got the story rolling.

Doug: You know, in The Ultimates, doesn't Jan battle the Hulk in the nude? Or maybe she just flashed him...?

Doug: Let's take a brief break from the plot to discuss some of the story elements. Tops, John Byrne's art is pretty good. I wouldn't say it's great, certainly not his best (can we blame that on the absence of Terry Austin on the inks?), but it's very nice. I would take issue, though, with Claremont's script - or at least elements of the dialogue. The use of the terms "Waspie" and "Noxie" was grating on my nerves. I really felt that Claremont struggled to find the voices of these characters. I'd have to go back to the aforementioned Havok and Thor issues to see if he improved -- those were published about a year after today's story.

Karen: As you know Doug, I have always thought that Byrne looked his best when inked by Austin. Austin's a talented artist in his own right and he seemed to bring out the best in Byrne's pencils. I would say that Hunt is acceptable -better than many, although not the best. Middle of the pack. I would agree with you that Claremont struggled at times to find the voice of his characters. He was pretty good with Spidey though. There were times that I recall, later in his X-Men run, when it seemed like everyone sounded the same. But he knows how to spin a good tale.

Doug: At the same time Spidey guesses who is nemesis is, guess who comes calling? You are right, and the Pyms' apartment took the brunt of the greeting. Equinox stands perched on what used to be a window sill, and declares that tonight Spider-Man dies! Yeah, yeah, yeah... Superhero slugfest ensues. Of note is a bit of foreshadowing that's not all that mysterious, as we see a traffic jam form below with an African-American lady very interested in the goings on above her and a disgruntled trucker carrying a payload of fuel. I can see where that one is heading. The fight is carried outside after YJ gives Equinox a new-and-improved disruptor blast. This is depicted well, as is a panel showing Jan shrinking. Once outside, Equinox escapes via an Iceman-like slide.

Karen: How come nobody ever gets burned by these fire-wielding guys? Heck, I got badly burned by a pop tart once. Oh well, I'll let it go. It's a pretty typical fight, although I agree that YJ's disruptors, as depicted by Byrne, actually looked powerful. He had that Kirby Krackle thing going on.

Doug: Our heroes pursue and Jan gets whacked upside the head -- you can almost hear her say "I've never seen anyone move so fast!". But we're spared. Instead, she rebukes her own clumsiness, and then jumps Hank for improving his own powers but not hers. I keep coming back to what Jim Shooter was writing this month in the Avengers...

Karen: Hank was always toying with his powers and his identity. It seemed like his inferiority complex evolved quite naturally. Who wouldn't feel inferior, when you're on a team with Hulk, Iron Man, and Thor, and all you can do is shrink and order bugs around? Then he fiddles around and gets growth powers, giving him some raw power although still below that of Hulk and Thor at least. I doubt that it was a conscious plan on the part of Stan and Jack, but by the time Roy had Hank have a mental breakdown and become YJ, you could just feel the desperation and frustration there. That made it easy for Shooter -and later writers - to turn Hank into a fragile figure.

Doug: The battle moves back to the bridge over the East River. Equinox is dangerous, but not in the "prime time" category. Nonetheless, Jan is injured by some flaming debris and rendered unconscious. Hank lights into Equinox pretty hard, while Spider-Man encounters the mysterious lady (whom we now know as the mother of our baddie) from the traffic jam -- now sporting one pretty large, quite high-tech gun. All players converge on the bridge. And as Spidey helps the Wasp to her feet, Hank and Equinox battle closer and closer to -- you guessed it -- the fuel truck. In a cold-blooded move, Equinox fires above the staggered Hank, right into the fuel truck igniting it into a huge fireball. Tense moments later, a figure emerges from the inferno and it's not Yellowjacket. Standing triumphantly atop the mangled truck, Equinox is confronted by a fighting made Wasp -- who declares that she will be the death of this villain!

Karen: The explosion just radiated heat and fury- great job by Byrne. I also liked the expressions on the 'floating heads' on that page. It was also nice to see the Wasp's fighting spirit -here she has a chance to truly be an avenger.

Discuss: Super Friends

2012-01-07T06:00:00.002-06:00

Who is the Most Essential Avenger?

2012-01-06T06:00:00.007-06:00

Doug: If there's one thing we like around here, it's the Avengers! For many of us, it's the writers we love -- Lee, Thomas, Englehart, Shooter, Stern, Busiek, et al. Then there are the folks like me who tend to dig the pictures first, and how could anyone go wrong here? From Kirby to Heck, Buscema to Adams, Buscema the second to Perez (and how about that Byrne fellow?), it's a hall-of-fame. And the ever-changing rosters? Uh huh. But what we want to discuss today (and yeah, we've bandied about similar topics in days of yore -- hey, I know I'm not getting any younger...) are the wonderful characters that have made up Earth's Mightiest Heroes. And around those champions I am posing the question you see above: Who is the most essential Avenger?

Doug: Of course right away each of our readers came to that question at a different level. You thought, "What does Doug want?" The guy/gal I think is the most important to the team? Yes. "The character around whom I'd build a roster?" Yes. "The character I like to read about while encircled by these other fantastic four-color beings?" Yes. Hey, the forum is OPEN -- you talk about any angle you'd like, and hopefully this becomes a fun, very organic exercise in all things Avenging. You know the drill -- have fun!

Discuss: Comics in Other Media

2012-01-04T06:00:00.002-06:00

Doug: This one comes right out of our Suggestion Box. Frequent commenter david_b asked if we had plans to cover The Big Bang Theory. As neither Karen or I have ever seen the show, that answer was "no". Then we got to thinking -- what the heck, maybe there are many of you out there who are fans. So.... have at it. And what of other television programs or even feature films that broach the subject of comic books? We're not talking shows/movies that are comic book shows -- we're talking shows and movies that are sitcoms/dramas that unabashedly mention comics, or have comic reading as a recurring theme. Favorites?

Verdammt Amerikaner!

2012-01-03T06:00:00.006-06:00

Doug: Most of the comics we love are pretty Americentric, aren't they? The settings, the landmarks, the speech patterns of the characters... Today's a pretty simple question: which non-American characters (heck, they can be off-worlders if you want) do you really like, and why? Is it because they might be from the country in which you live? Do you just like the international (or interstellar) flavor they brought to stories in which they were featured? Are there more untapped potential stories that you feel could have or should have been told?

Thanks for your participation, and welcome to 2012!

A Very Conan Christmas: Conan the Barbarian #5

2012-01-02T06:00:00.009-06:00

Conan The Barbarian #5 (May 1971)
"Zukala's Daughter"
Writer: Roy Thomas
Artist: Barry Smith
Inker: Frank Giacoia

Karen: Right off the bat here, I have to say that the art in this issue is a letdown from the previous issue, and I believe it is entirely due to Frank Giacoia's inking. The man was a veteran and certainly turned in many a solid job at Marvel, but he and Barry Smith simply do not mesh. The art here has a very crude look to it and honestly I found it made for a difficult read.

Doug: I can't really put my finger on what's wrong here, but something is certainly amiss. I tried to do some comparisons of facial angles, poses, action sequences, etc. between the previous issue and the following issue -- both of which were inked by Sal Buscema. Giacoia's line seems to be very heavy at times (particularly on faces), and I feel that to some degree he stiffens the art. Buscema's inks had really given the previous book a dynamic, fluid look. I'm feeling that this issue is almost a return to the Kirby-like density of the first two issues in the series. But hey -- it is Barry Smith and while I don't think he necessarily makes any leaps forward as we've previously commented, you could certainly do worse.

Karen: This story was inspired by a Robert E. Howard poem, "Zukala's Hour." Having never read the poem, I can't say how it compares to the story, which I think was fairly standard sword and sorcery fare. Conan is on his way to the city of Shadizar when he comes upon a small village at sunset. He briefly talks with a merchant, but suddenly the sky grows unnaturally dark, and the townspeople begin to panic and hide. Conan grabs a man by the collar and demands to know what's going on. It seems that the people owe a tax of 40 gold pieces, but they haven't paid. "The Master" is now coming to collect. The barbarian sees a strange cat's head forming out of the mist. The merchant cries that it is "she" and bolts. With a flash a huge tiger appears and begins demolishing the town. When it threatens a woman, Conan jumps in, and grabs the beast, but the tigress quickly overpowers the overconfident youth. However, even as she glowers over him, she appears to have a change of heart and lets him go.

Doug: You gotta love ol' Conan -- half the reason he engaged the tigress was because she was about to pounce on a "pretty one". Generally speaking, the crowd scenes in the previous issue were more inspired. I think I'll add -- and maybe this is what's giving us that "off" feeling about the art -- that the coloring in this particular issue is really heavy and dark. In looking through it again, I believe this is where I'm getting the slow, plodding feeling about the art. I wonder what it looked like in the standard four-color of the day?

Karen: We follow the mysterious tigress up a hill and she transforms into a raven-haired beauty. In the village below, the townspeople tell Conan that she is Zephra, daughter of Zukala - "the master". The villagers contend that both father and daughter are ageless and immortal. But they seem to think a strong sword could change that. They make Conan an offer - the 40 pieces of gold they owe Zukala will go to him, along with a fine sword, if he kills the man. It suits the barbarian and off he goes. However, the villagers figure they will never have to pay that price -once Conan has taken care of Zukala, they plan to arrange "an accident" to befall him.

Doug: I didn't feel that this story (I, too, have not previously read the poem on which Roy Thomas based his script -- but I did think that the few panels in which he inserted direct lines from said poem was a nice touch) held much suspense. It was really quite easy to see what would occur in advance of the actual events playing out. So, coupled with the art/coloring issues I'm left a little cold. Given our excitement over the first two issues we've reviewed in this series, I'm afraid we're ending on a bit of a dud.

Karen: At Zukala's castle, Zephra returns, telling her father the villagers did not pay, and then the girl passes out. Conan sneaks into the castle and finds the masked wizard crouched before a huge blazing brazier, summoning a demon. Zukala orders the creature to either bring him the tribute from the villagers, or kill them all. The demon goes flying out the window (in a very super-hero like pose).

Doug: That mask made me think of him as "The Man in the Iron Mask"... or Ferro Lad. In regard to a "super-hero like pose", I felt the same way when Conan leapt from a tree to the castle wall. Barry Smith's Conan is much more athletic than would be John Buscema's Conan -- wouldn't you say that Buscema's Conan was about 40 pounds of muscle heavier than Smith's depiction?

Karen: Oh definitely! I'm glad we're talking about these two versions, because they are so different. I can rationalize and say that Buscema's Conan is older and more filled out. But I do have a hard time imagining the hulking Conan of the later years performing some of the acrobatic stunts of Smith's lithe barbarian.

Karen: Zephra discovers Conan hiding but he quickly overpowers her and asks her if what the villagers told him was true-can she see the future, and turn herself into a wild beast? She surprises him by planting a passionate kiss on him and telling him that when she fought him in her tigress form, she knew he was the man she would love. Wow! This is one strange chick. She also tells him she has foreseen him standing over her body, an axe in his hands. Conan is completely flummoxed but is never one to turn away an attractive woman.

Doug: When Zephra planted that big smooch on our Cimmerian, I couldn't help but think of the scene in the first Schwarzenegger film when Conan is getting it on with the maiden in her Hansel & Gretel hut and she turns into some demon/sorceress. Arnold chucks her into the fireplace and it's over. But he doesn't do that here with Zephra. I love this Conan character -- whereas Tarzan is fully noble and driven, Conan is driven... but his path can certainly veer off in any direction: wine, women, song, chance to make a buck or two, a good scrap -- you name it!

Karen: While Conan and Zephra are locked in an (PG-rated) embrace, the wizard Zukala suddenly appears -I love Conan's line here: "Crom's Devils! Do doors mean nothing in this place?" - and cuts loose with a powerful energy blast. But the agile Cimmerian evades it and hacks at the wizard's head. Shockingly, this does not kill him, but his metal mask has been damaged. He runs off, head in hands. Conan pursues him ,with Zephra in tow, while the girl explains that the mask is the source of her father's power. She tells Conan he has no chance against him and should flee. But the barbarian is not convinced and is determined to end Zukala's life.

Doug: Conan makes Superman look like a real pansy. Powers don't work against magic? Pfah.

Karen: Even with half of his magical mask, Zukala is still a threat. He turns Conan's sword into a snake, and then fires more energy blasts at him. The young warrior grabs a battle axe and attacks. But when he has the wizard at his mercy, he tells him that for the sake of the girl, if Zukala matches the offer the villagers made him, he'll let him live.

Doug: This is the second perfectly good broadsword that has been ruined in this story, and all by magic. The first one was shattered against Zephra in her tigress form; here Conan just chucks the serpent-that-was-a-sword into a fire and that's that.

Karen: Zephra pleads with her father to accept. But the sorcerer is too proud. He commands his daughter to take on her beast form once more and kill Conan. She transforms reluctantly, before Conan's astonished eyes. But she finds she cannot obey her father. However, at this point the demon returns with the gold, and Zukala orders him to kill the barbarian. But the tigress Zephra leaps at the creature's throat. Zukala commands the demon to slay her. Conan confronts the wizard, telling him to call off the demon but he refuses, so jumps into the fray himself. But it is too late -the demon tosses Zephra aside like a rag doll, smashing her against a wall where she transforms back to her human form, and lies still.

Doug: I suppose Roy crafted the demon to be in line with Conan's powers, but in the whole hellspawn category ol' Jaggta-noga wasn't much. Thor would have bloodied and bested him easily, and sent him scurrying back to the netherworlds.

Karen: Seeing his daughter lying so still, Zukala dismisses the demon and rushes to her side. Zephra is still alive, awake but weakened. She cries out to Conan and it angers her father. He threatens the barbarian and then casts a spell that transports he and his daughter away. Ever the practical man, Conan wastes no time thinking about the two of them. He scoops up the gold and gets back on the trail for Shadizar.

Doug: Sometimes you get the impression that Conan is a "bear of very little brain", but that's really not the case. As stated above, he's pretty driven; easily distracted, yes, but pretty goal-oriented. In this case, that goal was to apparently get over to Shadizar and rob some of the wealthy nobles. So why tarry? Although Roy did tell us that Conan counted the 50 pieces of gold.

Karen: This isn't a bad story; after all it has a demon and a wizard! But again, the art really took me out of it. It's almost as if you can see Smith's art struggling to burst free of the inks put upon it. But not only is the inking poor, the panel layouts in this issue are also much more conventional than before, with Smith primarily sticking to 6 or 4 panel pages. Looking at the next issue though, I see Sal Buscema is back and the art looks fabulous. I have to wonder if this issue was a rush job.

Happy New Year from the Bronze Age Babies!

2011-12-31T06:00:00.007-06:00

Here's to hoping 2012 is a better year for all of us, but particularly those who have faced hardship over the past many months. We're nothing if not resilient! Be well!

-- Doug and Karen

Doug: So, does anyone have any big plans or upcoming major events to speak of in 2012? I'll start off today's comments with my own doings: The biggest event coming our way this year will be the graduation of our younger son from high school and his move to college in the fall. That will bring on some uncharted dynamics for our household, specifically in regard to my wife and I. It will have been 21 years since we've been in the house alone on a full-time basis. There will be a sense of re-discovery, as we are certainly not the same people we were in 1991 when our oldest was born. But we are looking forward to the challenge. We are also looking forward to the trips to Indiana to see the boys, as they will both be attending the same college, northeast of Indianapolis. The youngest is going to play soccer, competing for a starting spot at goalkeeper. The oldest continues his pursuit of a career in sports broadcasting.

Other than that, I know that I'll be in Washington, DC in July again this year, teaching at the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum for a week. And hopefully along the way I'll be purchasing many more Bronze Age goodies to add to my growing library -- which I will in turn pass on to you, the faithful reader, for your commenting pleasure! Everyone, be well!

Karen: Sorry to jump in so late, but better late than never, I suppose. In 2012, I hope to find an agent to represent my fiction writing. I also hope to resolve a health issue that has been hanging over my head since April of this year. I don't make resolutions, but I will say that I want to do better at staying in touch with family and friends this year too. I'm also looking forward to taking a few trips with my husband this year. May the arrival of 2012 bring new hope and new opportunities for all of us.

Discuss: The Silver Surfer

2011-12-30T06:00:00.002-06:00

Karen: The sky-rider of the spaceways -the Silver Surfer. What do you think of him? How is he best used (starring character vs. supporting)? What are the best stories featuring him? Here's your chance to say anything you want about this wielder of the power cosmic.

All hail the real All-Father, Stan Lee!

2011-12-29T11:11:00.002-06:00

Karen: Yesterday was Stan's 89th birthday! Our birthday wishes may be belated, but they are quite sincere. I for one can't even imagine what my life would have been like without the influence of Stan and Marvel Comics. Far less interesting, I suspect. Happy birthday to Stan, and here's to many more!

It's "Totally Random Day" Here at the BAB!

2011-12-28T06:00:00.010-06:00

Doug: Let's just rap today. First thing that pops into your head, lay it on us. No themes, no overarching questions -- just let it fly.

The bass guitar on the Monkees' Pleasant Valley Sunday is outstanding. It's attributed to Chip Douglas of the Turtles; the Monkees did all actually play on this hit. I'd suggest that if you're going to listen to this cut, however, that you slightly increase the bass output, as on a laptop or similarly-inferior speaker set-up you may not get the full enjoyment.
The Justice Society revival in the mid-'70's All-Star Comics was a lot of fun as a kid, but not quite as much on the adult re-read. DC employed artists who were often inferior (in my opinion) to Marvel's stable of pencilers. Nonetheless, we need to check out some of those stories here.
I am jazzed for this season's Chicago Bulls -- but they sure did lay an egg against Golden State on Monday.
My wife is a happy gal with the oldest home from college for three weeks. Life is "back to normal". Wonder how she'll do next year when we're empty nesters??
Not only could I never get into the Hulk when I was a kid, I also could never read Dr. Strange. Yet, I loved the early issues of the Defenders. Go figure.
Robert Plant's Tall Cool One is a cool homage to his Led Zeppelin years. Fun song!
Losing sucks.
I like my Cap with "obvious" chain mail - John Cassaday-style. I always thought Don Heck's depiction, while the one I grew up on in Marvel Triple Action, looked more like a baby bird's downy feathers.

It is so true that even if you budget for car repairs, they are never welcome or easy to take.
The ESPN commercial featuring Pittsburgh Steelers fans waving their Terrible Towels around the world is awesome -- T-Rex's 20th Century Boy is a great track for that ad!

The Big Haul?

2011-12-27T06:00:00.006-06:00

Doug: Well, what did you get?

Doug: Me? Well, I'm glad you asked! I was the fortunate recipient of the Marvel Team-Up tpb by Chris Claremont and John Byrne. As my bloggin' partner had suggested that we take a look at some of those issues in the new year, it was of great import that I obtain said tome. Do not underestimate the power of Santa Claus. I also received the Mail-Order Mysteries book I'd mentioned last week. Art Spiegelman's Meta-Maus was an exciting "get", as I've used Maus in teaching the Holocaust to our world history students for well over a decade. Not only is the book great-looking and exhaustive in Spiegelman's telling of all-things Maus, but it includes a DVD with a treasure-trove of extras that include the tape recorded interviews Spiegelman made while talking to his father, Vladek. I'm really eager to sit down with this over the next few days. I'm also anxious to see the DVD Batman: Year One which my mother bought for me. Lastly, I got the Hallmark ornaments of Thor and Avengers #4 featuring a relief of Captain America popping right out of the cover. I treated myself today to the Green Lantern ornament at half off. And also falling under the category of "treating oneself", at the behest of our friend david_b I snagged a 16x24 print of the artwork from the 1975 Marvel Comics Convention -- drool over all of that John Buscema goodness below.

Karen: Nice haul, partner! I didn't do badly myself. My husband is way too good to me; he got me three wonderful books: The Hammer Vault, the Star Trek Vault, and the Making of Star Wars. It will take me months to look through them! I also got some sweet Funko monster figures, and a very cool model of the rocketship from the movie When Worlds Collide. My friends got me some great stuff too -boy do they know what I like! I now have a mug with the cover of Giant-Size X-Men #1 on it, a couple of new tiki mugs, an Adventureland t-shirt from Disneyland, and some Disney pins as well. Wow, am I lucky.

A Very Conan Christmas: Conan the Barbarian #4

2011-12-26T06:00:00.009-06:00

Conan the Barbarian #4 (April 1971)
"The Tower of the Elephant!"
Roy Thomas-Barry Smith/Sal Buscema

Doug: Happy Holidays, everyone! And what cries out "Good will toward men" like a barbarian slugfest?

Doug: I can't hardly contain my excitement over the art in this issue. Last Wednesday Karen and I (and a few of our faithful commenters) remarked that through the first several issues of Conan one could watch the maturation of Barry Smith's art. This being only Smith's fourth outing, it's nonetheless a tour de force. From the first page, his backgrounds are busy, the facial- and figure work are dynamic, and almost all hint of the Kirby-cloning is gone. We also touched on the computerized recoloring last Wednesday... it's my opinion that it really adds to this moody tale.

Karen: Although Sal Buscema is credited as the inker on this issue I thought it really looked quite different from issue 3, which he also inked. I don't know if he was experimenting with brush work or what, but the lines here seem heavier and thicker, particularly in the first few pages. Whatever the case, the art was very strong in this issue. I agree about the coloring -I think they've done a very good job here, one that doesn't distract the reader.

Doug: We begin in the filthy thief-city of Arenjun in Zamora; think of the cantina in Star Wars and you'll get the idea. A fat rogue of a thief-kingpin speaks loudly about his prowess as a slave-trader and stealer of women; in the course of the conversation he mentions the Elephant Tower of Yara and the jewels hidden within. A strong hand lights on his bulbous shoulder -- it belongs to the young Cimmerian Conan. He notes that he has had his eye on the tower since coming to Arenjun, and that it seems unguarded. The rogue laughs at the youngster's ignorance, and it's obvious that others in the tavern know of the Tower -- splinter conversations abound. Conan wonders if someone could bypass the ground guards, if he had the courage. That does it -- the probing questions aside, this final insult sets the Kothian rogue to near-frothing at the mouth. The rogue strikes Conan across the chest, which draws the ire of the Cimmerian, as well as of his broadsword. A brawl ensues, as the candles lighting the den of thieves are knocked over. When they are again lighted, the thief lies dead on the floor and Conan has left the premises.

Karen: This is a great sequence, one that really pulls you in to Conan's world. You can practically smell the perfume, smoke, and sweat in this thieves' den. Smith's art is also becoming much more detailed -note the pattern on Conan's sword.

Doug: Conan has approached the silver tower, which rises from a large high-walled garden. As Conan stealthily approaches the perimeter, he sees a purple-robed figure approach the guarded gate. Initially denied entrance, the robed figure rebukes the guard and is granted entrance. Conan notes that as the figure moves, his feet hover slightly above the earth! Racing around the wall, Conan scales it and drops to the other side. Getting his bearings, he begins to move when he suddenly trips over the body of a guard. Had the robed figure strangled the man to death? Conan looks around, and feels another presence moving slowly through the garden. Spying his company, and after sizing each other up for a moment, these two trespassers introduce themselves. The newcomer tells Conan that he is Taurus of Nemedia, known as the King of Thieves, and also the true killer of the guard. Coincidentally, Conan and Taurus have arrived in the same space and time with the same goal. I thought it was interesting here that neither Conan nor Taurus seemed suspicious of the other, and they quickly formed an alliance to steal the fabled Heart of the Elephant.

Karen: Thomas does a good job getting across Conan's youth and inexperience. He is both awed and frightened by the priest Yara. I can't imagine the Conan of later years reacting that way. The alliance with Taurus does seem a bit convenient though.

Doug: The now-allies move toward and onto the inner wall. Bent on their common goal, Conan continues his inquiries into the history of their prize. Asking Taurus just why this location is called the Tower of the Elephant, Taurus asks Conan if he knows what an elephant is. Conan tells that while he's not seen one, he does know that they are "monstrous beasts, with a tail at both ends." It's here that we see how Robert E. Howard often plugged in existing world history and mythology and the terminology of both. Conan mentions that a wandering Shemite had told him this. The term of course references one of the sons of Noah, Shem, who (if we are to believe classical anthropology) served to repopulate the earth in the area we'd call the Middle East. Anyway... As our protagonists land on the other side of the wall, they immediately see that this new area is guarded by a group of three silent lions, who rush towards the two thieves. Taurus takes out a blowpipe and pushes a green dust into the air around the beasts. Conan is incredulous as the animals breathe their last, and asks what manner of substance they were felled with. Taurus answers that it is the powder of the mysterious black lotus.

Karen: I enjoyed Conan's remark about his god, Crom: "Great Crom lives on a mountain...and little he cares for what men do with their tiny lives." We'd hear a version of this years later coming from the mouth of Arnold Schwarzenegger! That powder Taurus had was pretty amazing stuff -lucky he didn't inhale any!

Doug: Reaching the wall of the tower, Taurus pulls out a grappling hook and rope and gets it to hold fast on his first toss. Conan suddenly whirls to see a fourth lion pouncing. Conan lashes out with his sword, killing the beast. The two men begin to scale the tower. They marvel at the surface, encrusted with uncountable jewels and gemstones. Reaching the top, Taurus tells Conan to walk the perimeter of the tower's landing to look for guards below. With Conan distracted, Taurus sneaks inside the door and shuts it behind him. Conan senses this potential treachery and returns to the door. Conan hears a sound from within like a man being strangled, and Taurus' limp body falls back through the door into the barbarian's arms. Bearing only small needle-like marks on his neck, Taurus is cast aside as Conan cautiously enters the room. Amid caskets of jewels, Conan moves forward until he is smitten on the shoulder by an acidic liquid. Suddenly a giant black spider swings down and attacks. Conan evades the spider's first attack, but before he can reach the door the creature encompasses the barbarian in a sticky, constricting web. Conan is able to grab one of the heavy jewel boxes and hurls it at the giant arachnid, crushing its head.

Karen: I was very taken with the way Smith drew the tower -glimmering, almost in motion it seemed. The coloring no doubt enhances this; I'd like to see the original comic book coloring for a comparison. The fight with the spider was brief but exciting. Earlier Conan had remembered a story he heard, that Yara, the priest of the tower, had once turned a prince into a tiny spider. Perhaps this was another victim of the sorcerer, although much larger?

Doug: Conan enters a door he'd not seen previously during his conflict with the spider. Entering and descending some steps, he sees a large green elephantine idol seated on a throne. As the Cimmerian approaches, he is stopped in his tracks by fear when the creature begins to move. It looks around sightlessly, assuming that Yara has come to torture it -- from his words, this has apparently been a regular occurrence by both fire and the racks. Conan hesitantly speaks to it, and the creature names himself as Yag-Kosha. Conan tells the green elephant that he will not harm him; in turn, Yag-Kosha asks Conan to come closer so that he may touch the barbarian. Conan does so a bit too willingly for my tastes (no way... I'm thinking no way -- it's gotta be a trick!), and Yag-Kosha begins to speak of the origins of his people and how he came to be in this place. He reveals that he is an ancient space traveler who came to Earth long enough ago that he witnessed apes become men. Eventually his people died out, and Yag-Kosha was the last of his kind. He later taught a pupil named Yara, a sorcerer already gifted in the black arts. Once Yag-Kosha had given of enough knowledge to make Yara truly his master, the elephantine man was imprisoned by the scheming Yara. The very tower which he had built for Yara in but a day now served as his confines.

Karen: The elephant man's tale is a bitterly sad one. Even the barbarian is moved by it. Smith does a fabulous job here. Yag-Kosha is brilliantly drawn, not ridiculous but imbued with a tragic nobility. Again, the level of detail is stunning. Look at the pattern on the drapes, on the small amulets Yag-Kosha wears on his tusks, vines growing up sides of buildings - Smith was really thinking and putting it all into this art.

Doug: Yag-Kosha asks Conan to kill him. Yag-Kosha tells the barbarian to plunge his sword into the alien's heart and then take the Heart of the Elephant jewel and set it before Yara. He must then recite an incantation which will finally do in the corrupt sorcerer. Conan does all this. Yara is sleeping in a nearby chamber. Conan enters the room and shouts Yara's name, causing the sorcerer to awaken and curse Conan. Conan places the gem, now blood-red, on a table and Yara is magically drawn into the gem. Yara begins to shrink, stepping out of his clothes and eventually becoming the size of a mouse. Yara somehow scales the smooth surface of the gem and disappears into it. Conan's eyes widen when he sees an image of a majestic Yag-Kosha awaiting. Conan, having been warned by Yag-Kosha to flee, leaves the tower, getting far enough away to see The Tower of the Elephant collapse. The Heart of the Elephant was not to be his -- but what an adventure!

Karen: The coloring of the sphere is wonderful and once again, I have to agree that this modern coloring technique can bring a lot of life to the art. I think this is one of the more fantastical Conan comics I've ever read. It just has more fantasy elements than a lot of the stories. There's very little swordplay but it still manages to be an exciting tale.

Merry Christmas from the Bronze Age Babies!

2011-12-24T06:00:00.002-06:00

All the Best of the Season to you and yours -- thanks for another great year!

-- Karen and Doug

Kang, and Dr. Doom!

2011-12-23T06:00:00.007-06:00

Doug: Today's discussion is actually a debate of the following statement. Feel free to take a side, pro or con, and defend it.

Kang the Conqueror would have made a better villain for the Fantastic Four, as Dr. Doom would have made a better villain for the Avengers.

P.S. And Happy Holidays to all! We'll be back on Monday with the second installment in our look at the early days of the Thomas/Smith Conan the Barbarian collaboration. Be well!

A Very Conan Christmas: Conan the Barbarian #3

2011-12-21T06:00:00.005-06:00

Conan the Barbarian #3 (Feb. 1971)

"The Twilight of the Grim Grey God"

Writer: Roy Thomas

Artist: Barry Smith

Inker: Sal Buscema

Karen: Here at BAB we realized that we've neglected a pretty important title in Bronze Age history: Conan the Barbarian. We decided we needed to rectify that oversight. Doug and I both now have The Chronicles of Conan Volume One from Dark Horse, which collects the original Marvel issues 1 through 8, and we are embarking on a three issue review, with more to follow eventually. With the exception of issue 7, which I believe I had read in a Marvel Treasury edition, I had never read these stories before. The first issue of Conan I actually recall having was #15, which guest-starred Michael Moorcock's Elric of Melnibone. I didn't start buying Conan regularly until the early 40s or so, so the artist I used to associate most closely with the character was John Buscema. But I always liked what I saw of Barry Smith's barbarian. As we read through these early issues, there is a very noticeable progression in Smith's quality as an artist. The overall art varies greatly though, depending on the inker.

Doug: I loved Conan back in the 1970's, from some of the novels to the monthly to King Conan. I enjoyed the Schwarzenegger films (although like most adaptations you have to emphasize the "based on" aspect). I've recently been acquiring the Savage Sword essentials. Like our sparse coverage of the Legion, we simply have to toss a little love toward these titles we've neglected.

Karen: Our reviews begin with issue 3, "The Twilight of the Grim Grey God." Our story opens with young Conan trying to smash the chains that bind his wrists. Suddenly he sees a tall old Viking-like man on a hill above him. The white-bearded man is dressed like a warrior, and addresses Conan by his name, although they've never met. He tells the young Cimmerian that blood is on the wind, and that the Hyperboreans are about to clash with the men of Brythunia. Conan thinks him mad until he pulls out a glowing sword and waves it over head. Suddenly, Conan can see valkyries mounted on winged horses in the night sky! He is stunned. The old man declares that "to each being there is an appointed time...and even the gods must die!" This means little to Conan, but the old man tells him that he will soon see the passing of kings "and more than kings!" He tells Conan to go and the youth does. But he casts a look back and sees that the stranger momentarily appears gigantic, before he disappears entirely.

Doug: Young Conan's brashness is a hoot here. Aren't these stories supposed to take place as he approaches his 20th (or so) birthday? He has all the bravado of a warrior (shoot, an outcast warrior) of that age. And the shackles will certainly play a role throughout this tale. The valkyries are quite beautiful -- Barry Smith's art is already beginning to evolve before our eyes.

Karen: As day comes, Conan meets a Brythunian horseman, Dunlang, who gives him a lift once Conan explains that they have a common foe: the Hyperboreans. It seems they are the ones responsible for chaining Conan, so he has a score to settle. As they ride, they encounter a young woman, Eevin, who is Dunlang's beloved. She begs him not to go to battle, as she has had a vision of his death, but he says he must.

Doug: Hellbent warriors, women who dabble in sorcery, and warring factions of barbarians -- sounds like a Conan story to me! But I don't care... I love this stuff.

Karen: At a point mid-way between the two hostile camps, Malachi, leader of the Brythunian cavalry, engages in a tryst with Kormlada, the Hyperborean king's woman. The king has promised Malachi a great reward if he betrays his people and holds his men back in the battle. But Malachi wants more than gold -he wants Kormlada too! She has no love of her king, and schemes to stab him when everyone else is occupied with the fight.

Doug: Malachi is a dead-wringer for the Geico caveman, isn't he? The love triangle -- you know, where there is no love a'tall, was pretty good. Formulaic, but fun. Everyone in this tale has a personal agenda, and we know that convergence of destinies will be the payoff of the story. Say, I must confess that I could have used one of those handy "Meanwhile..." yellow boxes between scenes. I did a double-take more than once while reading this story.

Karen: Dulang brings Conan before King Brian in the Brythunian camp. He offers his services, but doesn't want his chains removed! He says that he has sworn not to remove them until he has killed the Hyperborean who put them there. I guess that's barbarian logic. He runs into Malachi who gives him a hard time about not using a weapon. Conan tells him to split the chain that connects his wrists, intending to use that as his weapon.OK, more barbarian bravado. When the morning comes, and the men prepare for battle, Conan is disgusted to discover that King Brian will not go into battle himself, but will stay in his tent until it's all over. Eevin shows up again to say goodbye to Dunlang, and then off to the field of battle they march.

Doug: Conan's primary function as a free agent and/or mercenary is ably characterized in this tale. This will follow him all of his days, until he becomes king of Aquilonia. To some extent, there is a biblical feel to the events going on here, in that there are tribal factions, mysticism, betrayals, etc. There's a scope to it all. Conan makes a bit of a Vietnam-like commentary on King Brian when he mutters to himself, "And so the old send forth the young to die... while they make merry in their tents."

Karen: King Tomar of the Hyperboreans does lead his men into the clash. As forty thousand warriors clash, Conan somehow locates the man who chained him, and uses his chain to kill him -Cimmerian justice! Dunlang finds Conan and tells him to go up the hill and tell Malachi to send his horsemen in. But the cavalry leader tells the youth that he will ride in when it is the right time. Bewildered, Conan relays this to Dunalng, who realizes they have been betrayed. He strips off his armor and wades recklessly into battle. Dunlang is slain and Conan goes berserk, killing dozens of Hyperboreans. King Tomar worries that the tide of battle has turned, and decides he must go slay King Brian himself to insure his victory.

Doug: Exaggerated? Waiting for the cavalry to arrive to turn the tide of battle, instead one enraged Cimmerian wielding a chain tips it in such a fashion that there is fear that the Hyperboreans will lose. I'm just not sure about that, but it is great cinema.

Karen: Meanwhile Conan decides to go after Malachi, who finds himself deserted by his men. Eevin finds Dunlang and cries over him while Kormlada passes by, looking down on Eevin as weak. She still hopes to salvage the situation to her own purposes. But Conan hunts Malachi down and easily kills him, shattering the venomous Kormlada's dreams.

Doug: One whack across the chops with that heavy chain. Awesome...

Karen: King Tomar enters King Brian's tent and the two face each other. However, as the two men carry their fight out into the open air of twilight, the grim grey god looks down on them, and they simultaneously strike one another dead. Conan sees the god and his valkyries as they fly towards the battlefield. He realizes that the god is Borri, god of the Hyperboreans, and that this is the last time he and his maidens will appear, as their worshippers are gone. As Conan steps over the bodies of the two fallen kings, he sees the grey god turn and disappear, and he remembers what he told him -that he would see the passing of kings, and more than kings.

Doug: Add prophecy to my list of biblical elements found in this story. As I said above, this has an epic feel to it, and the ending is no exception. In a way, the ending looks forward to the Thor Annual #5 we reviewed last summer.

Karen: This was an enjoyable one-off story. It's all rather predictable but it has a nice mythical feel to it. Smith's art here is still a bit rough but an improvement over the first two issues. Buscema does a very solid job of inking, retaining Smith's style and complementing it. One thing I noticed about the art: Smith used a lot of small panels! Kind of made selecting the art for this post difficult.

Doug: This series, like the Tales of Asgard trade paperback from which we drew a few reviews earlier, has been recolored using a modern computer-generated palette. It's very rich, and in my opinion gives a storybook quality to the art. I know many of you are purists, and I am not opposed to reprints in standard four-color. But I think that given the mythological subject matter and landscapes that encompass Thor and Conan the Barbarian, it is wholly appropriate.

Who Has the Best Primary Villain?

2011-12-20T06:00:00.005-06:00

Any company, any character...

BAB Wish Lists

2011-12-19T06:00:00.006-06:00

Karen: Here we are once again, the holiday season, and there's so many goodies out there! I'm sure you all have your eyes on a few special things you'd love to receive as a gift. Doug and I are continuing our tradition (hey, this will be our third year in a row) of pointing out some cool and geeky stuff that we'd like to find under our respective Christmas trees.

Karen: I'm cheating on this first one, because I already bought it for myself as an early gift! I couldn't resist, it was going half-price. John Landis (yes, THAT John Landis) has put together a very nice, big book chock full of monsters. Monsters in the Movies is primarily a book to ogle for all the excellent photographs from hundreds (thousands?) of monsters that have appeared on film in the last century. Landis divides things up based on the type of monster -vampires, werewolves, giant monsters, ghosts, etc. Sometimes his commentary accompanying the photos is straightforward. Other times he makes some witty observations or critical remarks -he's not shy about telling you if he thinks a film stank! There are also eight interviews sprinkled throughout, featuring people like Christopher Lee and Ray Harryhausen. I don't know that I'd want to dish out the $40 cover price, but it is a lot of fun and if you can get it cheaper I'd say go for it -it's very entertaining.

Doug: Many of you were a part of my fantasy wish list a few weeks ago when I ran the Bronze Age books post. I did ask for several of those books, but the thing I asked for that I really hope I get is the Batman: Year One DVD. I enjoyed Frank Miller's four-part story that ran in Batman #'s 401-404, and I understand this adaptation is very faithful to the source material. I'd add, however, that as I've "grown up" and reverted to the love for the era from which I came, much of the adoration I had for some of the mid-'80's reboots has certainly faded. That stuff doesn't stick for me as much anymore.

Karen: There are a number of Marvel Masterworks that I would love to get, but if I could only pick two I would go for the Iron Fist volume 1 and Defenders volume 2 editions. The Iron Fist volume features the early appearances of the character in Marvel Premiere. At one time, I had most of these, but during my move from California to Arizona, the long box that held them "disappeared." So getting this book would help to replace them. My collection of Defenders is spotty from about 3-20, but I have volume 1 of this Masterworks series, so getting volume two would pretty much fill it in. These issues feature Steve Englehart and Sal Buscema, a team I loved from Captain America. I'm looking forward to getting this and reading some Bronze age goodness I've never seen before.

Doug: I saw a nifty book on Amazon last week while searching for some other stuff -- I immediately added this to "the list". I hope I wasn't too late! Many of our blog-mates frequently run posts featuring old advertisements. Mail-Order Mysteries: Real Stuff From Old Comic Book Ads! looks like a real hoot. Near as I can tell, the author got his hands on the X-ray specs and whatnot, and writes a review of what the buyer actually received. Not only that, but how the stuff "worked"! As an owner of Sea Monkeys, I'm really looking forward to this expose'!

Karen: This year my unobtainable, Holy Grail sort of item would be Sideshow's 12" Mummy figure. I believe this figure was originally produced back in 2003. Of course, it's from Sideshow, and that means quality. It's an excellent face sculpt, a very good likeness of Karloff. Some nice accessories too. I have all the 'original' Universal Monsters (2 Frankenstein Monsters, Dracula, Wolfman) and the Creature from the Black Lagoon in the 12" format, so having the Mummy is high on my list. Unfortunately, he's very hard to find and very pricey -typically around $250 on the secondary market! That's a little too much for me to justify spending, but I sure would love to get a hold of him some day.

Doug: You may have noticed on our sidebar that we'll be looking at a few of the totally-awesome Claremont/Byrne Marvel Team-Ups. This does, however, hinge on my reception of the recently-released tpb of those stories! Yep, Spider-Man: Marvel Team-Up by Claremont and Byrne came out just a couple of weeks ago. Here's to keeping my fingers crossed. I also requested Legends of the Dark Knight: Marshall Rogers, as well as some of the slew of superhero tree ornaments offered by Hallmark this season.

Doug: We'll let you know how we made out, in about a week!

Doug: We received a note yesterday from our friend Scott Edelman about a post he was running on his own blog. We'd invite you to check it out, and join in the lengthy conversation going on from Scott's audience. It's a worthwhile, very thought-provoking read!

Super-Hero Pseudonyms

2011-12-17T06:00:00.007-06:00

Doug: Happy weekend, everyone! Only a few more days until the Jolly Old Elf himself descends upon our households!

Today's question came to me last Tuesday whilst exercising. Apparently all that motion helps to slosh my gray matter about and kick out the ideas over which you are supposed to converse. Anyway, it occurred to me that there are some nifty slogans -- not necessarily nicknames -- by which our favorite spandex-wearing friends are otherwise known. Just to name a few:

Earth's Mightiest Heroes
The Fastest Man Alive
The Man Without Fear
The Last Son of Krypton

Those are pretty cool, and of course there is no doubt in my mind that all of our readers know immediately to whom those pseudonyms belong. Certainly I didn't list all that I thought of -- what would be the point of you commenting if I hogged all of the fun? So today's question is to of course ask you to toss out some other phrases like that and to engage in a general conversation as to which are your favorites. If there's even one or two that you don't like or don't think works as it was intended, be sure to share that, too.

Stepbrothers -- Fantastic Four #26

2011-12-16T06:00:00.013-06:00

Fantastic Four #26 (May 1964)
"The Avengers Take Over!"
Stan Lee-Jack Kirby/George Bell

Doug: Welcome to the conclusion of our foray into the Silver Age Thing/Hulk tussles. Today's review actually brings to six the number of such brawls we've reviewed. The LinkWithin feature below this post should take you to at least five of them. Well, no sense delaying further, so it's on to the feature!

Doug: When we left off two weeks ago, Brother Benjie had been summarily trounced by the much larger and much stronger Hulk. The Green Goliath was in Manhattan, looking for the Avengers. Since he'd found out that Captain America had "replaced" him on the team, he was hellbent on exacting some revenge. Funny, though -- I don't recall that the Hulk left in a state of mind such that he'd care that he'd been replaced. By the way, the release of Fantastic Four #26 coincides with Avengers #5, Cap's second issue with the team.

Karen: It's just like the guy who dumps a girl, but then gets all upset when she starts dating somebody else.

Doug: As we get back into today's action, Ben has caught up to the Hulk and immediately engages him. As we saw last time, Ben is able to stay ahead of the Hulk by using his superior intellect as well as the agility and speed his smaller frame allows him. Even as the Hulk pounds Ben literally into the ground, the Thing responds with a forceful shower of crushed rock which temporarily blinds his adversary. Stan then gives new readers (and forgetful ones alike) a quick rehashing of just why the rest of the Four are not present for this skirmish. Reed is still suffering from the virus he contracted last issue (while trying to find a way to change the Thing back to his Ben Grimm form), Sue is at the Baxter Building to assist the doctors, and Johnny is in the hospital with wounds from an ill-advised solo attack on the Hulk last issue. I had to laugh at the use of all of the asbestos around Johnny. You wouldn't get away with that today!

Karen: I'm sure the other patients in the ward could file a lawsuit. Even though Ben is an honorable guy, he's not above occasionally fighting dirty, as in this bit with the dirt in Hulk's eyes. I love the fact that Lee and Kirby show us TV camera crews up on the roof tops, filming everything. It was just another touch of realism that they brought to comics.

Doug: How about the amount of and size of the equipment that the reporters are using? It's a bit more cumbersome than an iPhone or a Flip camera, ya think?

Doug: Johnny feels well enough to get out of bed, and once shedding his pajamas (whoa, whoa, whoa -- do you suppose his backside had been hanging out of that gown?), he flames away and finds our combatants. Ben doesn't want his help, but the two teammates eventually try to fight together. The Hulk is having none of it, though, and turns a fire hydrant against Johnny. Both our heroes are able to evade the water. The U.S. Army has gathered, and launch a warhead against Jade Jaws. Catching it, the Hulk hurls it into the sky where it detonates; he then gets away.

Karen: I guess we'll have to chalk the Torch's disappearing/reappearing FF uniform to the unstable molecules. When he flames on he suddenly seems to be wearing it. But where in the heck do you get asbestos pajamas? It's typical Ben that he doesn't want Johnny's help, and honestly, Johnny hasn't seemed too effective against the Hulk in any case. But Ben's also shooing him off over his concern for the kid, which was nice to see, as the two spent so much time bickering you could forget that they really liked each other. I was a little surprised that Ben tried to talk the Hulk down -"Why don't you just calm down and let's talk this over?" - but it was kind of refreshing.

Doug: We see the Hulk next in the subway tunnels when the unthinkable happens -- the Hulk commandeers a train, and conducts it himself! Now I don't doubt that Bruce Banner could drive, but this just seemed really weird to me. Chalk that up to our worldview of the Hulk as being the 1970's "dumb Hulk". Anyway, he jumps off the train right under the site of the Avengers Mansion, and enters. It doesn't take him long before he encounters the line-up of that period: Thor, Iron Man, Captain America, Giant-Man and the Wasp, and Rick Jones! The Hulk lunges for Rick, and it's (of course) GAME ON! The rest of the issue is basically one huge battle, and it's for the most part a fun ride. Cut back to the Baxter Building, where Reed's fever has broken. With Reed healed and Johnny still on the mend but at nearly his full strength, the reunited FF head off in search of the Hulk.

Karen: That train sequence seemed really odd to me as well. Did you notice that when the Hulk busts in on the Avengers, it's in a room totally devoid of any details -no furniture or nothing, just a box! There is a lot of that in this issue -no background art. I'm thinking that drawing so many characters probably pushed Kirby, time-wise, and something had to give, so it was the backgrounds. In those tight quarters, the Hulk has the advantage, and he takes off with Rick in tow.

Doug: Let's interlude here for a bit and discuss the Hulk's role through these first three stories we've covered, where he's encountered the major heroes (sans Spider-Man and Dr. Strange at this point) of the Marvel Universe. Are you seeing him as a tragic or sentimental character? I am not. I'm seeing "dangerous", "unpredictable", and perhaps even "menace". I know General "Thunderbolt" Ross has a reputation as a blowhard with a short fuse, but I'm thinking that if I were in his national security role I'd be eager to destroy the Hulk as well. If all I had to go on was his public persona in these early stories, then he should have been blasted off to the moon (or wherever).

Karen: No, I think your perception is spot-on. The Hulk is really dangerous and wild at this point -maybe worse than later on because he actually still has most of his wits about him. He's not the 'misunderstood' character we grew up with in the 70s. I'm assuming that they had to soften his personality and make him more sympathetic when he starred in his own feature. I have some of those old Tales to Astonish (and of course the reprints in Marvel Super-Heroes too) and I would say it was a slow transition from the more brutal version to the 'gentle giant' we got later on. I sort of like him with an edge, but here, he's just a raving nut.

Doug: The Wasp is able to trail the Hulk, and attacks him by getting into his ear. The buzzing almost drives him mad, but he's able to bang the other side of his head like a swimmer would and dislodge the tiny heroine. The rest of the Avengers show up and it's Captain America who engages the Hulk first. What a hero -- this is why you always root for Cap. He's fearless, he leads tactically, and he leads by example. But of course this is a Marvel mag, and nothing ever goes as simply as it might. The FF arrive at the same time things are heating up and of course begin tripping all over their counterparts. The Hulk had to be laughing at the ineptitude of all of these heroes. As Iron Man and Reed argue, the Hulk grabs Rick again and leaps away to an under-construction skyscraper.

Karen: There's some great gags here, with Iron Man getting caught in Mr. Fantastic's lasso arm, Giant Man jumping in the path of Invisible Girl's force field, and let's not forget the Thing getting thumped by Thor's hammer. It made perfect sense -with that many super-powered folks around, somebody's going to be in the way. Then, when Hulk gets away, the Avengers and FF start arguing with each other over which team is going to go after him -now that's a Marvel comic! Eventually, Thor and The Thing make peace and the rest follow suit.

Doug: It's Captain America who again makes the best impression when attacking the Hulk, but probably the best visual is the battle between ol' Purple Pants and Hank Pym. And in the end, the strongest being on the planet is done in by ants. And by Rick Jones and an anti-gamma pill. Hey, how about that -- Rick saved the universe long before the Kree/Skrull War! As the Hulk staggers toward the river to stop the itching of the ants, he also begins to change back to Banner. And as he disappears below the surface of the water, the two teams of heroes basically just retreat to whatever it is they needed to do. No search, no debriefing, just fini.

Karen: Cap uses judo against the Hulk -you would just never see that today!

Doug: Sheesh -- even with judo, do you really think he could flip 1000 lbs?

Karen: Of course, the Hulk of the modern comics is far more powerful than the Hulk we have here. But it gave me a chuckle when I saw that. Giant-Man's rapid size changing seemed to throw Hulk for a loop, but I'd worry that he'd just get angrier. But aren't we all lucky that Rick carried around a gamma ray pill? Hey, if that thing was radioactive, and he kept it in his pants pocket all this time...well, maybe there's a reason Rick never had kids!

Doug: This issue had to be a pain-in-the-butt to draw with so many characters, but Kirby lets it all hang out. There is energy, dynamism, and power on every page -- Jack really delivered the goods. This two-parter would have made a great Annual, and certainly today would have been a crossover between the two teams' books. If I have any complaints at all, it's that too much time was spent on Iron Man's powers, and Thor was a total non-factor. Of course, given his real power, Stan and Jack had to keep the God of Thunder on the sidelines. Overall, I'd give this story a B+ -- Kirby would hit his stride just less than two years later once he and Joe Sinnott began to click.

P.S. -- Doug: Don't you think Kirby was "aping" himself on the FF cover above, as he'd drawn an oh-so-similar pose just a month earlier?

The 5-in-1 Threat!

2011-12-14T06:00:00.004-06:00

The Incredible Hulk #213 (July 1977)
"You Just Don't Quarrel With the Quintronic Man!"
Len Wein-Sal Buscema/Tom Palmer

Doug: This is a great cover, isn't it? If I had been a Hulk fan when I was 11, Ernie Chan would have made me buy this.

Doug: This one hits the ground running. The splash page features our hero with his young charge, Jim Wilson, facing a barrage of bullets. When last we saw these two, Hulk had just vanquished the Constrictor -- a super-baddie who had a hit on young Wilson! As New York's Finest continue to blast away, Hulk keeps moving forward until eventually the boys in blue have fled or had (as in the case of the last brave fool) their weapons crushed in a big green fist. But what should our wondering eyes next reveal to us? How about a huge box truck from Stark International that stops right on Hulk's doorstep, opens, and unleashes a huge robot-like construct -- the Quintronic Man!

Doug: Piloted by five techs, this "multi-million dollar piece of merchandise" prepares to engage the Hulk. And right away, we have a cutaway -- to Gamma Base, where Doc Samson is trying to help some transient get his memory back. OK, back to fightin'. This Quintronic Man is weird, in that the tech in the head orders the guys running the four limbs to do certain things. Of course it's all pictured as if it would be fluid, but I'm thinking the delay in reaction time is going to cost somebody down the road here. Hulk scoffs at this new robot, but is soon on his backside. Foolishly thinking they've KO'd him on the first kick, the Quintronic Man moves in. Bad choice. He's barely able to parry the Hulk, who despite falling backward is able to rip the asphalt from under the giant.

Doug: Cut to Banner's boarding house, where April Sommers is watching all of this transpire on the news. We see a shadowy figure outside of her OPEN DOOR (duh), but he scoots away when she investigates a noise in the hallway. She assumed it was going to be Banner, and as we saw last ish, he's been a mystery-man and she wants some answers.

Doug: Cut again to some hoods, who are about to get their seedy meeting busted up by the Jack of Hearts! Jack's on a revenge mission for his dead father (carried over from Deadly Hands of Kung Fu #23) and wipes up the place pretty easily. Hearing about the Hulk on the radio, though, makes Jack want to test himself as a real superhero -- so it's Hulk-hunting he will go!

Doug: There are numerous further indignities heaped upon the Hulk, but none like the "somna-gas" that he's blasted with -- and you guessed it -- la la land. Oh, shoot -- another cut, and back to the SHIELD tanker. Except this issue they've transferred the gamma-irradiated cylinder to the Helicarrier. General Ross is aboard to be debriefed on the thing. Trouble is, all attempts to breach it have been unsuccessful. And wouldn't you know that as everyone vacates the room, the bugger starts to quiver a bit. Hmmm... OK, back to the Hulk. He's loaded into a vault-like truck, and Jim is detained and made to ride in the front with the police.

Doug: What follows is an odd scene, with several squad cars leading the heavily-armored truck and all followed by the Quintronic Man. As the processional moves, Jim suddenly jerks the wheel from the driver and steers the truck right into a wall. And you know what? The armored roof cracks. Give. Me. A. Break. Look at the thing! If it wasn't tailor-made to hold the Hulk, and it cracks? Solid steel (or whatever) cracks?? Well, I'm going to be surprised if this one ends well.

Doug: Of course the somna-gas is allowed to escape, Hulk wakes up (question -- why didn't he switch back to Banner when he was zonked?), the Quintronic Man gets in a couple of good shots, but in the end Hulk hurls a chunk of concrete that lands in the construct's chest cavity -- and oh-so-conveniently backs up the air system, reversing the direction of the somna-gas. Robot can't function if its five pilots are all out. The end. Well, except that Jack of Hearts arrived about two seconds too late to get in on the action -- throwdown coming up in a future issue.

Doug: Tom Palmer's inks are much heavier in this issue than were Ernie Chan's in the previous book. And I think Chan's generally got a heavy brush. Certainly we see elements of Palmer overpowering Sal's pencils, and while that's not terrible it does tend to make me think more of the John Buscema/Palmer collaborations than really getting a Sal-feel for this art. After two issues of Len Wein, I see the trouble that all Hulk, and Superman, authors must face -- how do you have a fight each issue where your protagonist is nearly omnipotent? Tricks, gags, deus ex machinas -- I guess you have to have all of that. Neither the Constrictor or the Quintronic Man should have been worthy of battling the Hulk, but Wein manages to squeeze a 22-page story out of each bad guy. Of course, all of the foreshadowed plot threads help to stretch things out. So, while I'd have rather seen the Hulk take this big robot apart limb by limb, I'll settle for the dumb luck that ended this fracas. But I'm only giving this book a B- because of it.

Discuss: Quicksilver

2011-12-13T06:00:00.003-06:00

Doug: He was featured in our recent reviews of the "Kree/Skrull War"; we did a piecemeal evaluation then. Let's get those thoughts all in one place today.

Days of Christmas Past

2011-12-12T06:00:00.004-06:00

Doug: For all those so inclined, today we'd like to talk about Christmas memories from our childhoods. I'll start by saying that having spent my entire life in the Chicago area, a white Christmas is almost-necessary! My guess is that my partner, having grown up in California and now living in the desert, has perhaps seen nary a Christmas with snow. How about the rest of you in regard to that front?

Karen: We never had snow for Christmas when I lived in southern California, but it was usually cold, and either rainy or cloudy. It felt like winter to me. I can't say the same about these desert Christmases!

Doug: And what of Christmas decorations? One of my fondest memories is of going to my grandparents -- on the side of the family that was oh-so-secular, yet decorated to the nines! Grandma had these big plastic covers for the yard light; one of Santa Claus and one of Frosty the Snowman. It was a real treat to turn onto their street and see that looming in the distance. Once inside, everything was "Christmas", from the fuzzy toilet seat cover (similar to the one pictured below) to the hand towels to the fancy little characters that covered every door knob in the house. And the presents... it looked like the whole sleigh had exploded and landed under her tree!

Karen: My father was always making things, and one Christmas he made a metal Christmas tree frame about 7 feet high, to which he attached Christmas lights, and then placed on the roof. It was the coolest light display on the block!

Doug: And a favorite memory? I think I've related it around here before, but the year I got Son of Origins of Marvel Comics, a transistor radio, and the Mego Spider-Man -- all under the family tree -- simply can't be beat!

Karen: Ah yes, I recall getting Origins of Marvel Comics, many Marvel calendars, and that really cool boxed set of The Lord of The Rings -not sure who published it but it had gold paper and elf runes on the outside. Those were great gifts. But a favorite memory is the smell of the turkey cooking overnight - my folks babied the thing, taking turns getting up and basting it. But it was well worth it -some of the most tender and juicy turkey I've ever had!

Doug: Now it's your turn -- what are some of your recollections of Christmas in the Bronze Age?

Bracketology: The BAB Top 40 Events of the Bronze Age!

2011-12-10T06:00:00.007-06:00

Doug: So, given the way our little Bronze Age tournament turned out, what do you say we work backwards through it and see if we came up with a credible ranking of the Top 40 events of the Bronze Age? Heck, if nothing else, this post ought to give us something else to argue about!

Doug: Here's what I did -- the list below is a ranking based on the victory of the Claremont/Byrne X-Men over the Death of Gwen Stacy. The latter event would then be the runner-up. Consequently, the semi-final event that the X-Men beat (the drug issues) would get a higher ranking (3rd) than would G-S X-Men #1 (4th). And so on... I am not claiming that I have every spot correctly positioned; in fact, I'd wager I'm a spot or so off on more than one. But then, that's for all of you to add to today's debate. I am not sensitive about people pointing out my mistakes. But I think more often than not, the general position of a given event is what will spark the conversation, as personal allegiances will surely come to the fore!

The new BAB Top 40 Events of the Bronze Age follows. Let us hear your feedback!

The Claremont/Byrne X-Men
The death of Gwen Stacy
The drug issues in Amazing Spider-Man #'s 96-98
Giant-Size X-Men #1
Tomb of Dracula
Wolverine debuts in Incredible Hulk #'s 180-182
Relaxation of the Comics Code Authority
Jack Kirby arrives at DC Comics
Black & white magazines
O'Neil and Adams on Batman
The DC Implosion
Frank Miller's Daredevil
Swamp Thing
Conan the Barbarian is licensed by Marvel Comics
Superman vs. the Amazing Spider-Man
Birth of the graphic novel
Heavy Metal magazine
The Punisher debuts in Amazing Spider-Man #129
Marvel's females: Ms. Marvel, She-Hulk, and Spider-Woman
Superman: The Movie
Englehart and Rogers on Batman
Jeanette Kahn takes over DC Comics
O'Neil and Adams on Green Lantern/Green Arrow
Harvey Pekar's American Splendor
Shang chi and kung fu fighting
Deathlok the Demolisher
Julius Schwartz takes over Superman
Atlas Comics
Britains 2000 AD
Howard the Duck
Star Wars is released by Marvel
Lynda Carter's Wonder Woman
DC's 100-Page Super-Spectaculars
1st mini-series: The World of Krypton
Elfquest
Jonah Hex
Jim Starlin takes over Captain Marvel
Luke Cage, the first African-American super-hero
Cerebus the Aardvark
Treasury Editions

What If: Gwen Stacy Hadn't Died?

2011-12-09T06:00:00.005-06:00

Karen: We've seen a lot of Gwen Stacy the last few weeks, at least in our Brackets. Since her death seems to have been arguably the most significant event in the Bronze Age, let's roll it back and ask: what if she hadn't died? How would this have affected Spidey/Peter, and also, how would it have changed comics in the Bronze Age?

R.I.P. Jerry Robinson

2011-12-08T19:59:00.004-06:00

Thank You Fa Lettin Me Be Mice Elf

2011-12-08T06:00:00.004-06:00

Doug: How about a discussion on some of that sweet, sweet soul music? Man, lately I've been digging the Temptations' Ball of Confusion and Cloud Nine, some Sam Cooke, and for my money you can't beat the Otis Redding version of Hard to Handle. Curtis Mayfield's Freddie's Dead has also graced the iTouch recently.

And how about the influence of soul and R&B as it spread outward? In the past we've mentioned Rod Stewart's version of (I Know) I'm Losing You (hey, Rare Earth did that one A-OK too), and Karen is always loving on the Rolling Stones.

So let's hear it -- who do you like, discuss the influence of various artists, love on Motown for awhile, whatever you got today. And thanks in advance!

Really? Purple Pants ALL OF THE TIME?

2011-12-07T06:00:00.004-06:00

The Incredible Hulk #212 (June 1977)
"Crushed by the Constrictor!"
Len Wein-Sal Buscema/Ernie Chan

Doug: Back to the Bronze Age lot for a double dose of Hulk done-in-ones. Yep, tune back in one week from today when we'll actually bring you the succeeding issue. I only got three Hulks in the eBay victory, and this next week will polish those off. So, without further ado...

Doug: We open with Jim Wilson on the streets of New York City. While pondering a huge wanted poster of the Hulk, a thug emerges from the shadows. As the attack commences, Wilson at first thinks it's a mugging. But we soon find out that there's a hit on Wilson's life, and this tough with the blackjack is the assassin. But Jim's no slouch and evades the initial onslaught. Clinging to an oh-so-conveniently-passing-by box truck, Jim makes his way far away. The thug, fearful now what will happen to him since he's failed, begins to run. However, a long silver cord snaps out and begins to reel our hood in -- by his neck. As he begs for mercy, the "boss" steps into view -- it's a super-baddie (or so the snake-themed longjohns would lead us to believe) calling himself the Constrictor. And he wants Jim Wilson real bad.

Doug: Scene shift then to a boarding house where we spy on Bruce Banner, frustrated because he's bored but looking nonetheless fetching in purple twill pants. Next to him sits a magician's top hat; I can only wonder. Suddenly in walks his landlady, April Sommers. Now I was never a Hulk reader, so I'm totally tabula rasa on this development in Banner's love life. Oops -- apparently she's not a love interest. The scene plays like something right out of the Hulk TV show, with Banner only just now -- after months of living in the apartment -- revealing his last name. Even then, he refuses to tell her anything more about his past. I had to laugh at this mag written over a generation before the Internet -- Banner gives his real name, and April doesn't even react. You just know nowadays she'd run back to her own apartment and Google the fool!

Doug: We next check in on one Betty Ross Talbot, on the lam from Gamma Base. Apparently last issue she'd run away to "find herself". She's evidently on the West coast somewhere, as we're told she's several thousand miles away from NYC. Betty basically reinvents herself in this several-panel vignette -- and runs up quite a hefty credit card bill! All the while she laments the influence, and indeed pressure, of the men in her life -- most notable her father, General "Thunderbolt" Ross. And hey, is it just me or are Sal's women evoking the voluptuous figures usually associated with his brother John?

Doug: Cut back to Jim Wilson, who's landed at a pay phone (this is so cool! Man, I miss these days!). Jim tries to 411 Bruce Banner, but no dice. So he asks for "Bruce Roberts", reaching for any alias Banner might have used. Luck is on his side, and he's patched through. Of course Banner is home, and they make arrangements to meet. But as they agree on a site, there's a commotion, and Jim's end of the line goes dead. Banner rushes out of the boarding house -- and you just know that pulse is starting to race...

Doug: Scene shift again, to the sea, where a SHIELD tanker has hauled a gamma-irradiated cylinder from the ocean floor. The scientist on board, a hipster named Sidney E. Levine, radios Col. Nick Fury who tells him to contact Gamma Base. More on that later, I'll assume.

Doug: Back to Jim Wilson, we're dropped in actually a few seconds before his conversation with Banner ended. We find out that the noise was one of the Constrictor's coils smashing the phone booth. Jim is stunned, and a second lash nearly cuts him. But as the phone booth has basically dissolved, Wilson makes tracks. But he's not match for our villain, who catches up to Jim outside of an abandoned building. As Jim emerges he's snared and dragged to a waiting car. At about that same time, Banner is on the scene. Stepping out of a cab, Banner sees the busted up phone booth and then the getaway car. Banner calls out, but the car bears down on him. And you know what's coming next -- Hulk time!

Doug: The Constrictor gets out of the car (using his snake-like speed) just as it hits the Hulk. This Constrictor fellow must be a bit dim, as he says he's "heard of" the Hulk -- must live on Planet X or something. Anyway, as Hulk is about to end this four pages early he hears noise coming from inside the smashed vehicle. Stooping low to peer inside, he sees Jim. Hulk tears the roof off the car and frees Jim -- Jim in turn fills the Hulk in on this little contract thing. The book ends with a few pages of smash 'em up action as the Hulk makes relatively short work of the Constrictor. There's a little luck involved, as the assassin meets his end by whipping his coils into an electrical box on a lamp post -- bad feedback, for sure. But all's well that ends well, and a monster and his "little buddy" are reunited, to walk off together into the sunset.

Doug: Again, as a very casual reader of the Hulk, I got what I would have expected from this story. The villain could have been whupped by Daredevil, so I wasn't kept in any real suspense as to the outcome. Sal's pencils were wonderfully reliable as usual and Ernie Chan was a welcome sight -- not overpowering Sal, but enhancing him along the way. Len Wein seemed to have everyone's voice down pretty well. So aside from the almost-constant scene changing, this was a fun little use of 20 minutes. And as I said above, the anchors to the late 1970's can't be beat!

For Your Fan-Friendly Pleasure -- the Open Forum is OPEN Today

2011-12-06T06:00:00.005-06:00

Doug: Have at it, effendi! As we've done several times in the past, whoever is first to comment sets the topic du jour. Anyone else in later -- play nice and stick to our guest-moderator's thread choice. That being said, I think the last time we did this we actually ended up with multiple topics going due to two eager beavers getting in on this at about the same time. But for simplicity's sake, we'll stick to our usual rules.

Enjoy!

EDIT: Today's question is -- How important is continuity?

Discuss: Why Is Sub-Mariner So Much Cooler Than Aquaman?

2011-12-05T06:00:00.001-06:00

Karen: You saw the question - we're not debating whether Sub-Mariner is cooler than Aquaman -that's a given. The question is, why is Marvel's Atlantean monarch so much more interesting than DC's sea-king?

Bracketology: The Championship!

2011-12-03T06:00:00.004-06:00

Doug: It was really interesting to watch the semifinals unfold, with an almost exact percentage for the winners/losers in each race. Well, we're down to the end of this fun little jaunt through Back Issue! magazine's Top 40 events of the Bronze Age. As usual, have fun with the question!

Doug: I'll be back in one week with a little epilogue -- guaranteed to be full of controversy, and hopefully one last go-round of debate and conversation. Stay tuned!

Stepbrothers -- Fantastic Four #25

2011-12-02T06:00:00.018-06:00

Fantastic Four #25 (April 1964)
"The Hulk vs. The Thing!"
Stan Lee-Jack Kirby/George Bell

Karen: I think we all felt a little cheated with Fantastic Four #12; we really didn't get the knock-down, drag-out fight we all wanted to see between the Hulk and the Thing. Well, get ready, because here it comes!

Karen: I have to say, I'm always taken back by how crude Kirby's art was at this stage. Although the dynamism is there, it is rough and, at times, I almost can't look at it. But the story still proves to be an exciting one.

Doug: Certainly we're not too far removed from the Atlas era, and I think Jack's art was stuck there. But as we all know, those pencils would enjoy a meteoric rise once under the influence of Vinnie Colletta and Joe Sinnott (although Vinnie was not a good fit for Kirby on the FF).

Karen: As I mentioned in a comment on another post the other day, it's like night and day once Sinnott started regularly inking Kirby. I like Colletta on Thor, but agree he was not the best fit for Kirby on FF. That was Sinnott. So, on with our story: we start at the Baxter Building, where Reed is trying to get the Thing to drink a serum he has "accidentally" developed, and which he believes will transform his friend back into Ben Grimm forever. But the obstinate Thing refuses to take it -he instead smashes it! Reed is furious with Ben, but Ben fears that his girlfriend Alicia loves the Thing, not Ben.

Doug: How about that opening splash, with Ben literally climbing the walls, and what the heck was Sue doing on the floor? Additionally, we see Johnny make a flame lasso -- that was a gimmick Kirby had employed in our previous review of FF #12. It's interesting that Ben's insecurities in these days oscillate between manifestations of rage, self-loathing, and intense depression. His character was really being molded in these first two years.

Karen: Who should show up but Alicia, carrying the day's paper. It says that the Avengers are seeking the Hulk, who has disappeared and been replaced by Captain America. Cut to New Mexico, where the green goliath carjacks a truck. Curled up in the back, the Hulk transforms back into - Bob Banner? Yes, Bob Banner! Hey, you try writing a whole line of comics and keeping all the names straight. After fleeing a road block, Banner agonizes over why he keeps turning into the Hulk -and then turns into the Hulk, and jumps off in search of his desert lab.

Doug: The only "benefit of the doubt" that I can toss Stan's way is this: wasn't the Hulk's alter ego Robert Bruce Banner? I know in the television series he was David Bruce Banner, but I'm thinking in the Silver Age his first name was at one point Robert. But really, no one caught that? And didn't Stan pound it into the ground in those first few panels?

Karen: If I recall correctly, they added the 'Robert' after this issue, to sort of explain away the mistake. I could be wrong but I thought that was the story. Next we look in on the Avengers, who have been tracking down their former team-mate. They discover the truck he was riding in in New Mexico and wonder what he's up to. Rick Jones comments that the Hulk must be heading back to his lab, which elicits puzzled responses from Cap and Iron Man, who can't imagine the brutish Hulk doing anything that involves brain power. But indeed, the Hulk IS in his lab, and pretty much tearing up the place, due to his hatred of "Bob" Banner. He starts tossing things out of his pockets to rid himself of everything Banner. I had to chuckle when I realized two of the things were a book of matches and a pipe -all brainy types smoke pipes! Hulk is about to toss away a newspaper clipping but pauses to read it (remember -he wasn't an idiot yet) and becomes enraged when he discovers that the Avengers have replaced him with Captain America. Thinking that Rick has also deserted him, the furious brute decides to go to New York and destroy the Avengers.

Doug: The panel sample of Cap and Rick that you've provided is interesting to me -- I assume you snatched it from the FF DVD-ROM. I read this story from the book in which I first saw it -- Marvel's Greatest Superhero Battles (way back in the Origins of Marvel Comics series of tpbs). In that version of this story, Cap's headgear is just that -- it does not extend into his chain mail. Here it looks like he has fabric on his neck. So I was thinking just now that Kirby was drawing Cap as he had back in the War years.

Doug: What did you think about the Hulk bounding all the way from New Mexico to New York City? Tireless, maybe -- but that's almost 3000 miles!

Karen: Hey, he's the strongest one there is! Of course he can do it! Back at the Baxter Building, Reed collapses with a fever. We learn he has been working with viruses! Was there any area of science that Richards didn't excel in? He's like the Professor on Gilligan's Island. Sue and Ben tend to Reed while Johnny heads off in the Fantasticar to get a doctor. Flying over the city, however, he sees the Hulk on a rampage and foolishly decides to take him on. The Torch lands and attacks, but the Hulk shatters the ground and then grabs the Torch -whose flame has grown weak! Boy, it sure seems like Johnny could barely maintain his flame for more than a few minutes back in the early sixties. Johnny apparently passes out.

Doug: So as a plot vehicle, why do you suppose Stan and Jack chose to hold Reed out of the fight? Was it just to show us that Ben could fight on his own without Reed calling all the shots? Johnny was about worthless, wasn't he? Maybe he should have used the flame lasso...

Karen: Yeah, I think all the other FFers were put on the sidelines just so we could have a one on one match-up. I'm always surprised when I read these early issues just how weak certain characters were -mainly the women, but here Johnny as well. I think Iceman also was treated pretty badly early on. I would suppose it is because they are youngsters, but I don't recall Spidey getting that treatment, unless he was sick. The city summons the FF to fight the Hulk, but Ben tells the authorities they need a doctor for Reed. Reed tells both Ben and Sue to go, warning Ben that "The Hulk's strength has never been measured! I'm afraid he's far stronger than you, old friend! You'll need your wits...don't let him grab you..." Ben and Sue jump in a police car (!) and head off to face the Hulk. Johnny is up again, but his flame is still weak -only his hand is aflame - and the Hulk grabs the youngster in one hand and looks ready to hurl him away! Sue surrounds Johnny with a force field but the Hulk jumps high into the air, and Sue passes out from the effort of maintaining the field! It seems that both Storm siblings were fairly limited in their abilities back in the old days. The Thing tells a soldier to take care of Sue, and then goes to face the Hulk -now it's getting good!

Doug: By the way, that was one ugly police car. If memory serves, Sue's force field came around in issue #13 (EDIT: Well, memory doesn't serve. As pointed out by faithful reader/commenter Edo Bosnar, Sue's abilities to make other objects/people invisible, as well as to use her powers to create forcefields, was first shown in Fantastic Four #22. I am getting too old for this...), which was right after the last story we reviewed. So this is a new wrinkle. However, as she'll eventually become arguably the most powerful member of the Four, here she's still Silver Age fodder for Stan's sexism.

Karen: One thing I noticed is that a lot of words are exchanged between our two combatants -I expect that of the Thing but not the Hulk. Of course this was a Hulk that was basically of normal intelligence. Still, I don't expect him to say things like, "Fool! You're just a muscular freak! But I'm the Hulk!" Ben lands the first blow and knocks the Hulk off his feet. Naively, Ben thinks that his best bet is to wear the Hulk out. Boy is he in for a surprise. Ben bobs and weaves like the boxer he is, but ultimately, the Hulk grabs him. As Reed warned, this is not a good thing, as old Greenskin leaps into the air and tosses Ben right at a building. Ben grabs onto the roof edge, only to hang on for dear life as the Hulk rocks the building back and forth! Yes, it's incredibly silly, but fun.

Doug: In the preface to this story (again, in Marvel's Greatest Superhero Battles), Stan does mention that the Hulk is perhaps the Marvel character who has changed the most since his inception. The Man credits writers and artists who came after he and Jack for said evolution, and doesn't besmirch them. What do you think -- change for the better in making the Hulk dumb? I was somewhat amazed throughout this story at how strong the Hulk was portrayed. I know I've read many stories of him doing impossible feats, but there was a real sense of hopelessness for Ben in this tale. And yes, that was one tough building. Sheesh...

Karen: The Hulk of my youth was indeed the childlike, 'dumb' Hulk, so that was all I knew. But when I began to read older stories I really appreciated the non-dumb version more. I think the writers of the dumb Hulk were very limited with what they could do with him. It seems to me that a lot of his stories tended to revolve more around his supporting cast. I think there's more options with the normal intelligence, tough guy Hulk.

Karen: Ben decides to just let gravity work for him and lets go of the building, planning to crash down on the Hulk. But the Hulk is faster than he thinks and once again takes hold of him, this time stuffing him through a manhole. Unknown to the Hulk however, Ben is right next to a thick electrical cable, and he uses it to shock his foe momentarily. But nothing stuns the Hulk for long. Across town, Reed struggles to get to his feet, hearing of the battle from the TV newscast. He bemoans the fact that the Hulk is too strong for Ben, but there's nothing he can do about it. I like the way he's drawn here, with his arm elongated but in a weird S shape. He really looks out of it.

Doug: Agreed. Despite the sometimes clumsy-looking art, Reed's illness is well-played. By the way, as you've mentioned the art at the top, I'd add that in this issue Ben really seems like he's at his Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe-listed height of 6'0". However, he's not bulky at all! C'mon, Jack -- feed the boy!

Karen: For some crazy reason, the Yancy Street Gang decides the best way to help out the Thing is to roll a truck down a hill at the Hulk. However, although the Hulk gets knocked into the bed of the runaway pickup, so does the Thing, and the two of them wind up in the river. Ben manages to swim to a motor boat and take off, giving him some time to figure out a new plan. He thinks he's lost the Hulk, but suddenly a huge green fist comes up through the boat! The two of them wind up at the George Washington Bridge and Ben manages to wrap a huge cable around the Hulk, temporarily immobilizing him. But Ben now realizes that although he is nearly exhausted, the Hulk keeps getting stronger. The Hulk strains and snaps the cable, and pounds Ben down to the ground. Then he takes off, saying he's going to find the Avengers.

Doug: I guess it was never said exactly in what part of the city the battle played out, but that truck from Yancy Street rolled a potentially very long way!

Karen: Picking himself painfully up, the Thing is stunned by his defeat. "He beat me! That big, brainless, muscle-bound creep beat me!! It...it...never happened before!" Shaking off his shame, the Thing bravely heads back to face the Hulk. So here in this early tale, we're seeing the situation that would continue even to today: The Thing as the never-say-die underdog in his match-ups against the more powerful Hulk.

Doug: Ben Grimm, the original Rocky Balboa... love it!

Byrne Avengers Art Commissions -- at Giant-Size Geek!

2011-12-01T11:27:00.003-06:00

Doug: Hey, friends -- if you haven't been to Giant-Size Geek yet today, get yerself on over there and check out some EXTREMELY cool commissions by Mr. John Byrne of our favorite Assemblers. You'll be glad you did!

Discuss: Galactus

2011-11-30T06:00:00.001-06:00

Bracketology: Semi-finals -- the Final Four!

2011-11-29T06:00:00.004-06:00

Doug: So it comes down to this: two events from the Amazing Spider-Man versus two events involving our Merry Mutants, the Uncanny X-Men. Has this gone the way you would have predicted? I think this is going to be very interesting, and perhaps the key thing on your mind is how you'll interpret our question: Which event was most significant in the Bronze Age? More than one commenter has remarked that if the question were to read "to" rather than "in", votes might have gone differently in several cases (and no, I'm not interested in doing this again :) ). But as they say, it is what it is, so we are sticking to the original, ongoing question. As always, comments about your vote or the voting trends are welcome!

Three Cows Shot Me Down! Avengers #97

2011-11-28T06:00:00.011-06:00

Avengers #97 (March 1972)
"Godhood's End!"
Roy Thomas-John Buscema/Tom Palmer (cover by Gil Kane/Bill Everett)

Doug: Here we are -- the conclusion to this wonderful 9-part epic. Last week one of our commenters stated that this was tailor-made for a graphic novel. You'll get no argument from this corner. And speaking of comments, Karen and I want to pause and thank everyone who has participated in the conversation -- you've left almost 100 comments on the previous eight installments. Certainly this has been a story worth discussing! So let's get to the endgame:

Doug: I have a couple of observations before we really get rolling, and both involve terminology. One, throughout this story it's been referred to internally as the Skrull vs. Kree War. When did that change to the Kree/Skrull War that we all know? Secondly, and in the same vein, when did the Intelligence Supreme become more commonly known as the Supreme Intelligence? Does anyone have any history to impart? Many thanks in advance if you do!

Karen: I think "Kree-Skrull" just flows better than "Skrull-Kree." As for the Supreme Intelligence vs. Intelligence Supreme, I'd swear I read an interview with Thomas where he said that he liked the way "Intelligence Supreme" sounded better than Stan's original term of "Supreme Intelligence." But obviously, later writers went back to the original.

Doug: So we left off issue #96 with Rick Jones being unceremoniously tossed back into the Negative Zone. I remarked that we'd begun this epic with a little tussle against Annihilus, so why not end it that same way? The Neg. Zone baddie immediately spies Rick and zeroes in on him. Roy and Big John give us a nice two-page spread that recaps how we got to this point. And since this is the first mention of John Buscema penciling the ending to what had become one of Neal Adams' masterpieces, why don't we ask for everyone's opinions on the art switch. Keep in mind that it was apparently Roy's decision to table Adams, due to what Roy has referred to as "deadline issues". Thoughts? Personally we're switching out da Vinci for Michelangelo. Styles are obviously different, but in the end they're both masters.

Karen: If we'd gotten Don Heck here, I'd be crying. I have no complaints! Both are tremendous artists. The only thing I can say is that Adams' panel layouts are more adventurous, perhaps more cinematic. But Buscema has his own gravitas.

Doug: Whoo-boy... as long as you bring up the Dashing One, I guess I'd ask our readers if the Kane/Everett cover to the final chapter is any more jarring than the shifts from Sal to Neal to John on the interiors?

Doug: As I said, Annihilus moves in quickly on Rick. Rick is fearful, as he's unarmed and basically floating in space. As Annihilus puts the clamps on Rick's throat, a blast of energy suddenly emanates from Rick's brain and drives the monster back, and away. We then cut to the Skrull throneworld where the emperor is gloating over Wanda and Pietro's failed attempts at freeing Captain Marvel from the negative energy with which he's surrounded himself and the omni-wave. Anelle, the Skrull princess, tries to get daddy to chill out on the off-worlders, but he's hearing none of it. Mar-Vell is suddenly roused from his trance, we'd assume at the same moment that Rick lashed out at Annihilus. Mar-Vell tells Wanda that in his attempt to contact Rick with the omni-wave he unwittingly tossed the young man into the Neg. Zone. Mar-Vell then, for the second time in this epic, destroys an omni-wave.

Karen: Already Mar-Vell is starting to feel somewhat martyr-ish. He's mostly been a tool and that doesn't really change through the course of the story.

Doug: We cut back to Rick, who is hurtling through space. Suddenly a portal appears right in front of him, and accepts him. Rick lands back in the prison that is the Supreme Intelligence's chambers. The S.I. tells Rick that he has again been orchestrating many events in the Kree/Skrull War and Rick's mindblast is just one such manipulation. But as they have this conversation, Ronan is spying on them. Aware that they are discovered, the S.I. orders Rick to reach back in his mind, to find heroes of yore who might serve as champions. Strangely enough, the S.I. seems to know of American comic books from the WWII era!

Karen: This is Roy having fun. Everyone knows how much he loves the Golden Age heroes he grew up with, so he found a way to incorporate them into the story. I have to say, when I first read this (as a child) it left me confused. Now I can enjoy it, even if it does seem somewhat self-indulgent.

Doug: In a great splash page, we see Captain America, the Sub-Mariner, the original Human Torch, the original Vision, the original Angel, the Fin, the Patriot, and the Blazing Skull leap into action against a Kree army. Buscema and Thomas give us some tutelage on the powers of these "new" heroes as they tear through the Kree. But just as suddenly the Golden Age warriors begin to fade out. Ronan sees this as his opportunity to slay Rick and the S.I. and orders the army into the chamber. Inside, the S.I. tells Rick that his mind had given him a brief respite in order to fully concentrate on what he must do next. As Rick cries out, his mind again unleashes an unexpected and horrible force that reaches across not only his immediate space, but all of space. Kree and Skrulls everywhere, battling all segments of the Avengers and their allies, suddenly fall as still as statues.

Karen: Wow! Who knew human beings had such potential? This made me think a bit of sci fi shows like The Outer Limits or especially the episode "Charlie X" from the original Star Trek series.

Doug: Cap, Iron Man, Thor, and the Vision, suddenly left with no one to fight, take the chance on redirecting to the Skrull galaxy. Blasting through hyperspace, only to emerge once again in the midst of the Skrull armada, the heroes get a free pass to the Skrull stronghold. Even the spaceships sit idly at the power that Rick had emanated. The Supreme Intelligence now wants to show Rick what has been transpired on Earth in their absence. We get a scene involving that pain-in-the-butt H. Warren Craddock -- in actuality the fourth Skrull from Fantastic Four #2! In a scene indicative of the political turmoil that was the early-1970's, once Craddock reverts back to his Skrull form, an enraged, anti-alien mob lynches him on the spot.

Karen: And there's that fourth Skrull you were asking about way back when, Doug! I thought the revelation that Craddock was not only a Skrull but had been manipulated by the Supreme Intelligence was pretty darn clever. The panel of the dead and bloodied Skrull imposter was quite powerful.

Doug: The S.I. then gives Rick, and us, the explanation for the entire War, and for the events of this issue. The Kree and Skrulls have warred as rivals, each having advanced up the evolutionary ladder. However, sensing that they will "improve" no further, they both turned their attention to their perceived real enemies -- the humans of planet Earth. And what of Rick's new powers? Manipulated by the S.I., Rick used abilities latent in all humans. As Ronan had put dampers on the S.I.'s abilities to affect the upper echelons of Kree and Skrull intelligences, the S.I. instead chose to enhance and influence the more "normal" players in this game. After the story is told, Rick succumbs to the stress of the day, and passes out.

Karen: I thought the idea that both races were at some sort of evolutionary dead -end was interesting, although I'm unsure what that really means (how do you stop evolving? bad gene pool?). This part of the story really sets things up for years to come. The inability to evolve would lead the Kree into the "Operation Galactic Storm" storyline many years later.

Doug: The Supreme Intelligence next uses his powers to open a portal and reassemble the Avengers, including Captain Marvel. All appear around the fallen Rick. The S.I. fills everyone in on what has transpired and then tells Mar-Vell that in order to save the boy, he must make the supreme sacrifice -- merge once again with Rick, hence giving Rick the lifeforce that will save his now-endangered life. Being a true hero, it really doesn't take Mar-Vell to long to reach the right decision -- and it's back to the Negative Zone he goes, as Rick rises once more. As a last act of the War, the S.I. sends the heroes back to Earth, where they encounter Nick Fury and the real H. Warren Craddock. Fury fills them in briefly, but it's an Avengers team that arrives home with heavy hearts in spite of their victory. They are missing one of their own, and wonder if he himself didn't make the ultimate sacrifice -- Clint Barton is not among them!

Karen: As much as I have enjoyed the Kree-Skrull War over the years, I've always felt the conclusion was the weakest part. We get a deus ex machina in the form of omnipotent Rick, fixing everything. It was just a little too neat for me. The Supreme Intelligence is the wizard behind the curtain, controlling it all, which I don't mind, but after all the strife and bloodshed, to have the war simply stopped was unsatisfying. I also would have liked to get a scene of the Vision reacting to seeing Wanda, but that would come later, along with our questions about the missing Hawkeye. I still consider this one of my favorite comic stories of all time, but I have to admit that it could have used a stronger ending. The ideas from this story though have had a huge impact on the Marvel Universe; the concept that human beings have the potential to be gods has shaped many a story. The Kree and Skrull, and their conflicts, continue to motivate new writers. Roy, Neal, John, and the rest did some world-building here and also gave us an exciting story. And -it was done in one title! No need to cross over into a dozen other books. Imagine that.

Karen: On another message board, a friend who is a big Neal Adams fan and has been reading our Kree-Skrull War posts brought up our Avengers 95 post. He believes that the cover to Avengers 95 was drawn by Adams and not John Buscema as we had stated. He cites Adams' own web page as evidence. On the other hand, the Comic Book Database lists Buscema as the artist. It still looks more like Buscema than Adams to me, but I will admit that Palmer's inks do make it more difficult to ascertain who the artist is. Anybody else want to chime in here about that particular cover?

Doug: By the way, the Grand Comics Database also credits the team of Buscema/Palmer with the cover. If you click on the previous link, you'll see a note below the cover credits that addresses this artist controversy. Apparently the folks at the GCD believe that it is Buscema and not Adams, despite prior credits leaning toward a collaborative effort.

Doug: I'd add one comment that Karen's friend made as additional food for thought:

"Look at Cap's biceps. Classic Adams. Look at Thor's leg: again, classic Adams."

Doug: Now if you think it's silly to be getting into select anatomical parts like biceps or quadriceps, it's really not. Years ago, I owned a page of original art from a Captain America & the Falcon from the early 1970's. At the bottom of the page was a signature by the one and only John Romita. Later, I decided to sell it on eBay. I was negligent in my listing and did no further research. I was almost-immediately informed that the artists were Sal Buscema and John Verpoorten. Now, certainly I can tell a Romita from a Sal Buscema, but this page was a puzzler in that it had a lot of facial close-ups and one in particular of the Contessa could have been straight out of Romita's romance comics -- so I went with it (I did immediately amend the listing, by the way, and the page did sell). However, feeling a mystery was afoot, I scanned the page and sent it on to Roy Thomas for his opinion. Roy did reply, and confirmed that it was indeed Sal's and John Verpoorten's work. However, he did say that an arm here and a leg there (I'm paraphrasing) could have been "corrected" by Romita -- but he couldn't be sure. So my point is that Neal Adams could stake a claim to the cover below -- it's no secret that he often put his stamp on pencils, inks... shoot, even coloring. So, examining the exhibit below, what sayest thou, the faithful reader?

What is Your Favorite Two-Part Story?

2011-11-26T06:00:00.003-06:00

Doug: Over the past month we've run posts soliciting your opinions on favorite done-in-one stories, as well as wonderful multi-parters. Friend William suggested we do a post with today's question, and since it sounded like a great idea for a weekend full of conversation -- here you are! Hopefully we generate as many nominees and banter as the previous two posts did. Have fun!

Bracketology: Quarterfinals -- the Elite Eight!

2011-11-25T06:00:00.003-06:00

Doug: We hope everyone had a great Thanksgiving holiday.

Doug: It was nice to see some close races in the latest round of 16. The choices get even tougher as we head to the quarterfinals, although I think as we look ahead it's somewhat obvious where this is going. Now that we're down to only four contests, it would be nice to see some specific comments concerning the merits or detriments of these events. Hopefully we'll get some really good conversation going over the next few days. And thanks to all who've chimed in over the past two weeks -- this has been interesting and a lot of fun!

Happy Thanksgiving from the Bronze Age Babies!

2011-11-24T06:00:00.002-06:00

Discuss: Smallville

2011-11-23T06:00:00.003-06:00

Karen: The series ended a few months back. What are your thoughts on it as a whole? For me, it was always a maddening show, in the sense that it was so very uneven in quality. It seemed like every time I was ready to give up on it (particularly after a string of bad episodes), then they'd pull off a really cool scene or set something up so I'd come back for more. All in all, while I enjoyed it on some levels, I can't rank it up there with other series that I consider to be truly great. What do you all think?

Discuss: Your Favorite Reference Books

2011-11-22T06:00:00.001-06:00

Doug: Back on the 1st of the month, the tome The Silver Age of Comic Book Art came up in our comments on Avengers #93; and then darned if frequent commenter Richard didn't bring it up again yesterday! What are your favorite reference books?

Three Cows Shot Me Down! Avengers #96

2011-11-21T06:00:00.015-06:00

Avengers #96 (Feb. 1972)
"The Andromeda Swarm!"
writer: Roy Thomas
artist: Neal Adams
inkers: Adams, Tom Palmer, and Weiss (Alan?)

Karen: First off: that has to be one of the most memorable Avengers covers ever!

Doug: Funny you should mention that -- not too long ago I was checking out some of the Link-Within posts of days past when I came across the very first Do-It-Yourself Open Forum. The question of that day was on favorite Bronze Age covers and you picked this very one!

Karen: At least I'm consistent! You thought you'd seen some spectacular scenes in the previous issues of this extravaganza, didn't you? Well, the best is yet to come! Our mighty team goes space-bound to save not only their own team mates, but every man, woman, and child on Earth!

Karen: Our story opens with our five free Avengers landing at a colossal orbitting space station. Once there, Nick Fury offers them up a spaceship, telling them to hurry before H. Warren Craddock manages to intercede. The team boards the craft, and powered by Thor's hammer, blasts off spectacularly into space.

Doug: Allow me to be SHIELD-ignorant -- can you or anyone else tell me when or where this was used before? Shoot, since would be nice, too! I was not a regular Strange Tales or Nick Fury reader. There is some nice characterization on the flight deck, and the thought that Mjolnir could power the ship just added another layer to the legend of the Asgardians.

Karen: I'm not sure if it was seen before, as I only have a handful of SHIELD or Strange Tales comics. I thought maybe it was Starcore, but I think that shows up in a few issues. So anyone out there no about this space station? After exiting hyperspace the Avengers come out to find the vast Skrull armada ahead! Luckily for them, the Skrulls assume that their presence is some sort of trick and come to a dead halt in space. The Skrulls only detect one vessel with their space-radar, but visually they see a fleet. The Skrull commander, by order of the Emperor, takes his flagship to investigate while the other ships hang back. Here's a question: who made that image of the fleet? It doesn't seem like the Avengers did it. Was it the Supreme Intelligence? This left me puzzled.

Doug: The emergence of the Avengers' ship in the midst of that armada was right out of Star Wars! Or, Star Wars was right out of this, rather. I don't really know who was behind the illusion -- as I was reading it, I just assumed that it was some sort of cloaking device in the ship's defenses. However, as we'll see toward the bottom of this review, it most possibly could have been the Supreme Intelligence.

Karen: Our heroes figure if they can defeat the commander maybe the other ships will take off. That seems like a stretch. They launch in four smaller ships (Iron Man is his own ship basically) and are fired upon by a missile, which Thor destroys. As the Armored Avenger draws fire, Thor and the Vision fly up to the Skrull ship, and using their bare hands, tear back the hull! Inside they are attacked by gun-wielding, space-suited Skrulls. Cap sends his small ship crashing through the hole his comrades have made, ejecting just in time. Goliath stays outside, patrolling in his ship in case any of the other ships come to the flagship's aid.

Doug: While the visual of Thor and the Vision ripping into that Skrull ship was awesome, did you have any problems believing Iron Man's armor could withstand the vacuum of space? Thor -- I guess not. But the Vision, too... I just wasn't sure that his body shouldn't have ended up inside-out. Oh, heck, long as I'm nit-picking: Cap and Clint just had on the ol' fishbowl spaceman helmets. At least the Legion wore those paper-thin "trans-suits".

Karen: Some spacesuits might have been nice for Cap and Goliath. I could buy Shellhead surviving for a short time though. The Avengers make their way through the ship towards the command center. Thor rips off the huge door and throws it across the room, making quite the dramatic entrance. He warns the Skrulls that they are "but the meekest harbingers of those who follow" and tells them to turn back. The commander is not so easily fooled though; he knows most Earth people do not have such powers. Suddenly the enormous view screen behind him comes alive and the Skrull Emperor tells the Avengers to give up -and shows them the captured Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch. he also shows them Captain Marvel, and describes how he is building an omni-wave device for them! The Avengers wonder if Marvel would really do this -well they quickly learn the answer. he's used the omni-wave to make an illusion of himself, so that he could surprise his Skrull guards! After knocking them out he frees the two imprisoned Avengers and turns on the Emperor, who has a force shield to protect him. So it's game on again!

Doug: Thor's line was great -- a bluff, yet full of bravado. Mar-Vell was a hero to the end. After reading the graphic novel we reviewed last week, I am becoming more and more inclined to pick up the first Essentials of his adventures. Roy is really amping up the Vision/Wanda tension. Even that old warhorse Captain America is catching the vibes of love. Then he says "nah...". Did you think it was intentional that both he and Thor at different times referred to the Vision as an android? Was Roy creating some sort of "racial" tension? That sort of thing would certainly have been taboo in 1972.

Karen: There was the possibility of that, but all of the Avengers, with the exception of Quicksilver, pretty much accepted the relationship between Wanda and the Vision. Despite the Avengers' threats, the Emperor is crafty. He orders the commander to carry out Plan Delta. The order is given before the Avengers can act. The Vision grabs the commander and demands he tell them what Plan Delta is. He also demands to know the location of "the girl -and the others!" Shockingly, the android delivers a savage beating to the alien; he might possibly have killed him if Thor and Iron Man had not intervened. The panel showing the Skrull's battered face is burned into my mind. The commander reveals the truth of Plan Delta, as he says it is too late to stop. A small ship has left the flagship, headed for Earth, with a cargo of "a nuclear warhead to dwarf all your daydreams of destruction." In another very memorable sequence, Cap radios Goliath and tells him to stop the ship "at any cost -including your life! Do you read me?" A grim faced Clint simply says, "I read ya Cap." I still get goosebumps from that. Clint manages to maneuver on top of the Skrull ship and somehow blast his way inside. He finds himself staring at four Skrulls and wondering why oh why he threw his growth serum away.

Doug: You have to love a bunch of uglies that complain about how backwards a planet is, and then go and use an alphabet from its most classical civilizations. Hawk was great, wasn't he? We all know he idolized Cap. I've been thinking through this entire storyline how well Roy has been writing Clint. It's been a nice and seemingly natural evolution from his obnoxious days under Stan's pen.

Karen: Of all the secondary Avengers, I always thought Hawkeye had the best story arc, and best progression as a character. He did a lot of growing up, although he never lost his smart-ass nature. Far away from this action, we turn to Rick Jones, boy captive, and the Kree ruler, Ronan. Sadly, Ronan will be miscolored as a "pink Kree" the rest of our tale. I know nit-picky, but it bothers me. Ronan is highly displeased to find that although he requested that the Inhumans be brought back to Kree-Lar to help fight the Skrulls, all he has in hand is Rick. Rick pulls an incredibly lame-brained stunt and whacks Ronan with a staff, which obviously does nothing but cheese him off. He smacks the kid, but has a grudging respect for his bravado, and decides to make him his 'body-slave' (Oh my...shades of Spartacus!). He's in a generous mood, as he shows Rick the great Kree fleet that is taking off to go battle the Skrulls for Earth. Rick tries to run off but is easily stopped by Ronan, who tires of him and throws him in a room...with the Supreme Intelligence? Kind of a strange move. The S.I. (not Sports Illustrated) tells Rick that he's been manipulating events behind the scenes, such as stirring up H. Warren Craddock, causing Rick to have his prophetic dream of Mar-Vell, and keeping Mar-Vell from realizing 'Carol' was actually the Super-Skrull. He also caused the Kree solider to kidnap Rick last issue. But why? That'll have to wait, as S.I. has one more stunt: he zaps Rick in to the Negative Zone -right next to Annihilus!

Doug: In time... but I didn't get the Negative Zone deal. Good excuse to end this with Annihilus, though. After all, we started this whole mess with him, didn't we?

Karen: There's just no let up in this issue. Wall to wall action, but every bit of it was entertaining. And those visuals! Adams does an amazing job with the space scenes. It really transported me. This was certainly the most spectacular comic I had read at this point. He and Thomas really drive home that sense of extreme heroism here. As I said before, I think this is when the Avengers truly became big leaguers.

Doug: One of the complaints I had earlier in the series was Neal's long and lithe figurework not being wholly appropriate for Thor. No problems here, as the God of Thunder has been appropriately bulked up. Adams draws movement so well, doesn't he? And big leaguers? Wasn't it Kurt Busiek who once characterized the Avengers as the varsity? There can be no doubt in this storyline.

Bracketology: 3rd Round -- the Sweet Sixteen!

2011-11-20T06:00:00.004-06:00

Doug: Now we're getting down to business. I thought it was nice in the latter half of the second round to see three races finish very tightly -- there is anticipation building for some of the match-ups yet to come. I have a couple of questions to pose today. I've attached updated brackets below, and unless you have the crazy things memorized by now, you'll need to consult them in order to answer.

Doug: Here's the first -- as with any tournament, and particularly this one which was set up on somewhat of a blind draw, there can be teams lose "unjustly". By that I mean, and am asking you now -- has there been any event that you feel should have moved on? Is there something important that got left behind solely because it had the misfortune of going against a juggernaut early? A few of our British commenters cited the merits of 2000 AD, for example.

Doug: And here's the second question -- now that we're in the so-called "Sweet Sixteen", is it an appropriate dance card? That is, if you had to name the top 10 or 12 events of the Bronze Age off the top of your head, are they all here?

Doug: And what the heck -- how about one more query? Does anyone want to make any predictions? There are some great match-ups, so let's hear your prognostications!