tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post199288760585491265..comments2024-03-19T10:41:35.976-05:00Comments on Bronze Age Babies: Carnival of Madness - Daredevil 161Doughttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04248324005584963229noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-18767471902047608612014-07-15T16:20:49.040-05:002014-07-15T16:20:49.040-05:00Color me a guy who never wants to leave a half for...Color me a guy who never wants to leave a half formed thought unspoken. The persona of Matt Murdock, a lawyer from Hell's Kitchen, using the court room as an avenue of justice is nothing new. Many of us may not have grown up with Perry Mason, but certainly Matlock, The Defenders, Paper Chase, dang, the show where the guy lived in the back of his truck showed the popularity of lawyers in the court room. And Miller's run on DD predated Law And Order, but look where how long that's been on. And Matt working with Foggy on how to get evidence obtained by DD into a court room, that could be an issue and half alone. I just think that Miller building up DD, especially in his relation with/to the Kingpin sacrificed Matt Murdock. There were certainly many elements there that soon became hugely popular on other shows. Instead of Marvel seeing that strong stories made DD popular, they just kept telling the creative teams "What can you do to make it dark and gritty, that's what the people want". <br /><br />The Prowler (likes his sausage dark and gritty).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-75427150573997714842014-07-14T16:55:09.053-05:002014-07-14T16:55:09.053-05:00Nice job Doug. These last few issues of Daredevil ...Nice job Doug. These last few issues of Daredevil you've reviewed represent a huge turning point in my comic reading history. I think I was around 13 or so when these came out, and for some reason they just captured my imagination. It was love at first sight. Which when I think back on it is weird, because I never really loved DD as a character all that much before these. I mean, I liked DD a lot when he would team up with Captain America or Spider-Man and such, but I never really bought his book on any kind of a regular basis, but then starting with issue #159, I never missed another issue until after Miller departed.<br /><br />As the series continued Daredevil soon became my favorite character, and I even got a subscription. Seeing this story and the others really brings back a lot of happy feelings. Too bad you're not doing anymore of them, because the next issue where DD fights the Hulk is a true classic. Hopefully you'll pick back up on these at a future date.<br /><br />It's funny that loved this series to much (the Miller/Janson DD) but I never really cared all that much for anything Miller did afterwards. I didn't even like his return to DD with the sad and dreary "Born Again" storyline. And "The Dark Knight Returns" could have been a timeless masterpiece, except that Miller took it too far into the realm of political satire, to the point that it now seems very dated and unintentionally comical in some parts.<br /><br />Unlike DKR, Miller's DD run remains a timeless classic that is as good today as it was when it originally came out. And for anyone who wants to read them you can pick up the whole run, in color, in a couple of different formats. First there is the aforementioned "Daredevil Visionaries: Frank Miller" trade paperbacks that reprint Miller and Janson's entire run in 3 softcover volumes. I got lucky and found them all at my LCS in the 50% off bin. Another way you can get these is in the "Daredevil by Miller and Janson Omnibus" that reprints the entire run in a single, phonebook sized hardcover. I own that as well. While it's great to have the whole series in one book, it's really tough to read in bed, lol. Which is why I picked up the 3 trades as well.<br /><br />Before I go, just wanted to mention that cover for this issue. Is that not a thing of beauty. That perspective is just insane.Williamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16988016825582035390noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-17837711233723806732014-07-14T14:49:00.707-05:002014-07-14T14:49:00.707-05:00This was a good start for Miller's run on DD. ...This was a good start for Miller's run on DD. I did feel that Bullseye's first fight with the Black Widow was too short, too one sided. This was closer to who she was. Miller reinvented a DD from the ground up. His origin, who had ever heard of Stick, college, Elektra as his love interest, all done without fanfare, just good storytelling. The later DD who fought demons to keep babies of prophesy alive, secret nuns running secret societies, it all became a bit much. DD fighting not only street crime but political corruption is what made him the hero he is. There came a time on the DD title, Marvel Knights and so when the only approach was to out dark and gritty him. With all the story lines that have been done, there's never been that gripping court room drama. DD the detective gathering all the evidence, Matt the lawyer trying to get it admitted as evidence.<br /><br />The Prowler (once discovered a buy one get one free burger coupon in a junk drawer).<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-74229440200359051142014-07-14T14:12:36.858-05:002014-07-14T14:12:36.858-05:00HB, those Daredevil Visionaries volumes are nice, ...HB, those Daredevil Visionaries volumes are nice, but kind of pricey (and I think there's three volumes).<br />But since you mentioned you're even interested in a book that just reprints these issues, here's a suggestion: a tpb called "Daredevil: Marked for Death" which is now out-of-print but can be found used.<br />Here's <a href="http://www.mycomicshop.com/search?TID=515341" rel="nofollow">the listing at mycomicshop.com</a>. It reprints this story arc, plus two more (the one that has DD fight the Hulk and the - really excellent - one in which the reporter, Ben Urich, reveals to DD that he knows his secret identity. I've actually had my eye on this one for a while, but the high postage rates to Europe have kept it out of my price range. If you're interested, you should also check eBay - last time I looked, there's quite a few sellers offering it for $4-5.Edo Bosnarnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-26027312204844984642014-07-14T13:15:40.896-05:002014-07-14T13:15:40.896-05:00Haha--which Doug just told you. Guess I should rea...Haha--which Doug just told you. Guess I should read all the comments first : )Garettnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-64054542783083604692014-07-14T13:13:46.842-05:002014-07-14T13:13:46.842-05:00Hey HB, I have these stories in Daredevil Visionar...Hey HB, I have these stories in Daredevil Visionaries: Frank Miller Vol 1. Reprints #158-167. $18.<br /> <br />Garettnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-68954921691705315462014-07-14T12:42:00.704-05:002014-07-14T12:42:00.704-05:00Excellent-- thank ya much, Doug.
HBExcellent-- thank ya much, Doug.<br /><br />HBHumanbellynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-89281142174449396402014-07-14T12:33:40.716-05:002014-07-14T12:33:40.716-05:00HB - you want the DD Visionaries series of color t...HB - you want the DD Visionaries series of color tpbs.<br /><br />DougDoughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04248324005584963229noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-22402731624283969212014-07-14T11:51:26.814-05:002014-07-14T11:51:26.814-05:00Given that I really do prefer my reprints in color...Given that I really do prefer my reprints in color. . . but am still an unrepentant cheapskate. . . is there a bargain-level reprint volume out there somewhere that contains this run? Or at least these issues? (I'm thinking that SURELY there has to be-- or at least something that could be picked up used on Amazon/ebay.)<br /><br />Garrett, it's funny you mentioned sort of "seeing" Gil Kane in Miller/Janson's work-- 'cause I thought exactly the same thing. And I'd also add that in other moments it looks almost as if Neal Adams had taken possession. . .and then even Steve Ditko, for a bit! (In a very good way, mind you-)<br /><br />As Doug's been guiding us through this arc, my mind's ear has been absolutely YEARNING for some kind of film underscoring to go along with it-! Something very jazzy/retro/Nelson Riddle-ish, y'know? <br /><br />HBHumanbellynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-52593072498749782132014-07-14T10:07:46.132-05:002014-07-14T10:07:46.132-05:00First off, great cover. You can feel that kick, an...First off, great cover. You can feel that kick, and nice deep perspective to the tracks.<br /><br />Great dynamic art this issue! The acrobatic scenes seem like a lighter, quicker Gil Kane. That scene with Natasha tricking the knifethrower into cutting her ropes has always stuck in my mind.<br /><br />Bullseye is a fantastic villain for DD. Seeing this review makes me wish McKenzie had stayed on longer in collaboration with Miller. I read the whole Miller era at the time, and stayed on a while longer as Janson took over the art. I also picked up a few Romita Jr. issues, but it felt as if the Miller-era energy was dissipating. I went back years later to read some Colan issues, and I liked them--some beautiful art by Colan and Palmer in Essential DD #4. But this Miller era is my golden age.<br /><br />Enjoyed these DD reviews Doug! In more recent years, when I picked up DD it was drawn by Alex Maleev, who has a kind of smokey realism, but lacks Miller's dynamic energy. I've heard good things about the new Waid DD stories, but the art by Rivera looks a little too simple for me. I did enjoy Elektra Assassin for the Sienkiewicz art, very daring especially for the time, but Miller's Ronin left me perplexed. I've heard in a number of interviews Miller saying that Ronin allowed him to experiment and was the reason he could then do Dark Knight. At the time I loved the daring of Dark Knight, but now that Bronze age type comic stories aren't being produced, Miller/McKenzie's DD here seems even better. I'd buy this issue if it came out today.Garettnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-49967509321111911832014-07-14T09:44:14.679-05:002014-07-14T09:44:14.679-05:00Doug - I wanted to thank you for your DD posts thi...Doug - I wanted to thank you for your DD posts this month. These are the stories that made me into a comic book collector. I've been holding back commenting as everyone has been in basic agreement with me. I am hoping the new DD Netflix series they're doing treats the character with much more respect than that absolutely horrible movie did. If they do, maybe that will bump him up a bit in the Marvel video universe. DD is a really good character, so I hope so.<br /><br />If you ever revisit Miller's DD in the future, I'd suggest the Elektra arc of issue #'s 168-181. As a young reader those stories shaped much of my comic disposition. I remember how I could not wait to grab 181 off the spinner rack back then. I never, ever waited in such anticipation for a comic as I did for that one back then.Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00772306756607189999noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-47814680061550090842014-07-14T09:12:12.635-05:002014-07-14T09:12:12.635-05:00Miller’s DD run was the bronze age high point for ...Miller’s DD run was the bronze age high point for the character, but no, kind of like Moore’s Swamp Thing, they took second tier characters to totally new heights but did not elevate these characters to primetime for the long haul.<br /><br />I think it’s multiple factors:<br /><br />1. In comic book reader circles, his DD would get overshadowed by Dark Knight, just like Swamp Thing got overshadowed by Watchmen.<br />2. DD’s costume visually is a tad bland…some of us like it just fine, but maybe not as many marketing opportunities as Spidey, Wolverine, Batman, etc.<br />3. The movie was not very good and didn’t help…no “Robert Downey Jr. IS Tony Stark and we love him” breakout phenomenon.<br /><br />Personally looking back, I think Miller’s DD has aged better with me than his later work. He stretched boundaries with DD, but it was still framed securely in bronze age storytelling which I find more appealing.Ewannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-78380296587210434072014-07-14T08:49:52.917-05:002014-07-14T08:49:52.917-05:00I'm in a different DD fangroup than most here....I'm in a different DD fangroup than most here. I applaud Miller's style and change back to more noir stories, but somehow I wasn't a fan of the art. Just didn't like it, perhaps a tad too sketchy, inks-wise. <br /><br />I missed the Widow love-interest angle (frankly, one of the reasons I started reading DD..), and her farewell back in ish 123-124 (which I finally picked up earlier this year..) pretty much marks the end of my DD interest, with the exception of a few later issues here and there. Not sure why or how best to explain, but I just have a sense of the Bullpen back during that tenure and I guess I liked the period it was written in as much as the content. Also, there was a sense of light-hearted fun in DD stories up to that point which Miller removed, for better (for most) or worse. <br /><br />Great review today..!!david_bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00218727673816200051noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-35668612688093529312014-07-14T07:45:48.940-05:002014-07-14T07:45:48.940-05:00Like I've kind of been saying in the comments ...Like I've kind of been saying in the comments to all of these reviews, these issues really cemented Daredevil as a book I just had to read every month (just like Claremont/Byrne/Austin's X-men). The noirish stories and the wonderfully stylish and dynamic art were just a killer combination for me back at about the age of 11 or 12.<br /><br />As to your questions, I don't know that I can really answer them intelligently. I stopped reading DD as soon as Miller left, and I never became a regular DD reader again. Also, to this day I've only read a few random Silver Age and earlier Bronze Age issues of DD, so I can't really comment on how well any of this material compares to Miller's run. For me, though, Miller's first run on the book was a Golden Age on the title, and - as I've said several times before - Miller's Golden Age, period. Nothing he ever did after this even comes close.Edo Bosnarnoreply@blogger.com