tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post3713673819447687..comments2024-03-19T10:41:35.976-05:00Comments on Bronze Age Babies: Guest Reviews - Arc of Triumph? The Rocket Raccoon Mini-SeriesDoughttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04248324005584963229noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-31803922972111055672015-05-31T02:28:12.518-05:002015-05-31T02:28:12.518-05:00Found some time this weekend to yet again re-read ...Found some time this weekend to yet again re-read the series with a more critical eye, and I have to admit, I like it less now. Mainly, some things Mike mentions in his conclusions really bothered me this time around: the entire setting stretches the suspension of disbelief way too much, especially the whole idea of insanity being passed down from generation to generation among the Loonies - and it's a very specific single type of insanity to boot, as they're all dippy and childish, with no psychopaths or paranoid schizophrenics, for example, to be found. And all they are some intelligent sentient animals and toys to keep them happy and distracted. And that leads to another thing that really jumped out at me this time: the economics of the Keystone Quadrant. The toymakers Dyvyne and Jakes are rich, and even go to war to take each other's piece of the pie, but where is the money coming from? Who's paying for the toys? The Loonies? As portrayed here, they're too simple to even understand the concept, plus they're all basically little children who need to be cared for, i.e., they have no economy, commerce, etc. I think the basic idea - a group of intelligent animals acting as caretakers for a group of childish, crazy humans - is a really good basis for telling an absurdist story, but in this case Mantlo just didn't put enough thought into explaining it. Or he should have simply eschewed any explanations for the setting at all, and let readers use their own imagainations.<br />So yeah, the luster has really worn off for me. I think the last time I read it, I was just so happy at scoring a cheap copy of the Rocket Raccoon HC (paid about $5 for it) and sat down to read it right away in that mood, so I just wasn't paying enough attention. Also, the art is truly lovely. I still love that aspect of this series...Edo Bosnarnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-52011939496619844932015-05-12T13:25:49.784-05:002015-05-12T13:25:49.784-05:00@Edo: I think I had #3 of the Magik mini, but I w...@Edo: I think I had #3 of the Magik mini, but I wasn't too impressed...maybe I needed the others for context. I'm sure I read the original V&SW mini, but I don't remember much about it...the second one seems to stick in my head more.<br /><br />@Dr. Oyola: That's some weird stuff going on in the new Howard the Duck series. I've tried to get into the old one, but I guess I'm just not on Gerber's wavelength, since most of it seemed more goofy than funny to me. (Except when Howard ran for President...that had some good socio-political jabs in it, though it still wasn't laugh-out-loud funny to me.)<br /><br />Mike Wilson Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-22780223467361761802015-05-12T11:36:41.886-05:002015-05-12T11:36:41.886-05:00Thanks for this MW!
I loved this series when I re...Thanks for this MW!<br /><br />I loved this series when I read it back and the day and failed to re-find the original issues before GotG came out, so I fear they are out of reach now.<br /><br />I agree about the exposition, but that was kind of the common approach in older comics. I think that is hardly Mantlo's own sin.<br /><br />I really dislike the current characterization of Rocket, <a href="http://themiddlespaces.wordpress.com/2015/05/12/if-it-waughs-like-a-duck-2-space-duck-sex-turnip/" rel="nofollow">as I mention in my latest overview of the new Howard the Duck series</a> (in conversation with the original run) as Rocket and the rest of his movie gang show up.Dr. Oyolahttp://themiddlespaces.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-14461133204710094922015-05-12T02:31:40.565-05:002015-05-12T02:31:40.565-05:00On the topic of mini-series, I recall really enjoy...On the topic of mini-series, I recall really enjoying most of them at the time. My favorites were by far Hercules and Wolverine, and I also liked Hawkeye and the first Vision & Scarlet Witch mini.<br />HB, re: Magik. That's one I didn't like at all. I had the first issue and that's it - I really hated that Claremont was bringing all of those magical and supernatural aspects into the X-men.<br /><br />It's also worth noting that DC was churning out a lot of mini-series throughout the '80s, some quite good, some less so. One of my favorites back then was the kind of creepy Phantom Zone series by Gerber and Colan. And one I really regret missing was the Green Arrow mini, written by Mike Barr and drawn by Trevor von Eeden.Edo Bosnarnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-77873915812032605562015-05-11T20:43:47.339-05:002015-05-11T20:43:47.339-05:00Thank you Mike W. for the review and detail. I ne...Thank you Mike W. for the review and detail. I never collected Rocket Raccoon back in the day, but I have always been curious. I too really like the art (based on your scans and other times I have seen the work). Mignola's style is sometimes hard for me to see past; here I see a really different style and it reminds me of Arthur Adams for some reason.<br /><br />Regarding mini series, I sometimes think there should be more of those. Some characters cannot really carry an ongoing, but an interesting one off or short series may be welcome. I wonder how Rocket Raccoon got approved; it is really quite odd and not necessarily (at the time) something that anybody would perceive as "marketable" in the grand scheme. Obviously it was a special project for Mantlo.<br /><br />By the way, I think Mantlo reaches his best writing with ROM and Micronauts (also pet projects of his). <br /><br />Again thanks for sharing. Really did not expect Rocket Raccoon when I went to the site today and that was a nice unexpected surprise.Martinex1noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-48004755885706857252015-05-11T19:54:30.985-05:002015-05-11T19:54:30.985-05:00Man, there were just sooooo many-- I know I didn&#...Man, there were just sooooo many-- I know I didn't get them all, but I surely did over-indulge. I don't remember much about that original Wolverine mini by Miller, other than that it was pretty good (I. . . think). There was MAJIK or MAGIK, which was an awfully strange outing that had Ilyana Rasputin being raised by a demon in hell, or something. KITTY PRYDE/WOLVERINE. NIGHTCRAWLER-- which may have been fun. The duh-READFUL BEAUTY & THE BEAST. DAMAGE CONTROL. RAWHIDE KID (an aging gunslinger take on the character, which wasn't a bad read, really). HAWKEYE-- which I loved (along with WCA, yep). The first, very enjoyable VISION & SCARLET WITCH series. <br /> Man, that's just off the top of my head, too. And there are some where I have some of the issues but not not all of them. . . <br /><br />It was a fine idea, except that it became a venue too often for second rate tryout-esque material or vanity projects, I think. And it was often hard to really nail them down in the ongoing continuity. But there's still something magical (majikal?) about those first few years, when I was going through a late resurgence of comic-collecting euphoria, and so many of those early series seemed so cool and exciting at the time. . . <br /><br />HBHumanbellynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-47379973792828142132015-05-11T13:41:35.872-05:002015-05-11T13:41:35.872-05:00Thanks for the comments guys. As I mentioned in th...Thanks for the comments guys. As I mentioned in the review, I was never a huge fan of Mignola's art, but it works fairly well here. Like HB, I generally liked Mantlo's writing, although I never read stuff like Rom or Micronauts. I thought his Spectacular Spidey was very good and his Hulk wasn't bad either; of course, he had his share of misses too (his Alpha Flight started out well, but got really bad, really fast).<br /><br />HB, you're the first person I know who collected ALL those early 80s miniseries (or at least the first who'll admit it!); as I said, I haven't read too many of them, but West Coast Avengers stands out as a great mini...maybe that should be my next review...assuming Doug and Karen are cool with it.<br /><br />Mike WilsonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-10850013921901602162015-05-11T10:10:22.792-05:002015-05-11T10:10:22.792-05:00Thanks for the review Mike W! Mignola's art lo...Thanks for the review Mike W! Mignola's art looks good here, so I may go pick up this series.Garettnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-23679282348841405992015-05-11T08:56:00.183-05:002015-05-11T08:56:00.183-05:00Yeah, Mike W., very impressive issue-by-issue revi...Yeah, Mike W., very impressive issue-by-issue review(s). Good job!<br />My memories of Rocket have always been positive - and I enjoyed it quite a bit the last time I reread it a few years ago. Now, however, your review has got me hankering to pull out my Rocket HC and read it yet again.<br />However, I can see where your criticisms, and HB's, are valid. In fact, I think HB hits the nail on the head with his observation that Mantlo may have tried to cram too much into this mini.<br /><br />As for the art, I absolutely love it. And it's also interesting because it's some of Mignola's earlier work, before he settled on that distinct style that you can see in Triumph and Torment, Cosmic Odyssey or his Hellboy work.Edo Bosnarnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-56146861083484930432015-05-11T08:29:11.883-05:002015-05-11T08:29:11.883-05:00An impressive and committed summary/review, there,...An impressive and committed summary/review, there, Mike. Great job.<br /><br />I do have this mini. . . as well as, I think, every single other one you mentioned in your opening remarks. And like so many of those efforts, I believe I read it as it came out, and that was it. And their specifics are most-definitely lost in the fog of old memory. But your synopsis did bring a lot of it back-- and I have to confess that my opinion of it fell somewhat below yours. The art was generally rather good-- although (if your scans hold true throughout) Mignola did tend to throw in the towel on depicting any backgrounds at all-- which rather hurts a fantasy-based story, 'cause then it just becomes visually ungrounded. No sense of "place" to help you keep track of where you are.<br /> And the story itself-- hmm. It continues on (sort of) down the road from where we left off in the earlier Hulk issues (I cannot be-LIEVE what those issues are going for now!), and it suffers from the same winking, shove-the-cleverness-down-your-throat tone that blanketed that earlier story. Honestly, I rather liked Bill Mantlo in general ('tho I always thought of him as a B-list writer), but-- how do I put this-- Rocket Raccoon in particular left me feeling like I could never fully see the story or the characters because the writer kept standing in the way, drawing attention to himself.<br /> What I DO get (as probably do any of us who have created little make-believe universes for our kids' bedtime stories and such) is how much he loved this little allegorical pocket-U he'd created, and his delight in trying to share ALL of it may have overwhelmed his judgment when it comes to simple, good storytelling. I did remember the relentless, heavy, over-forced exposition that was necessary to make the story comprehensible-- which means that some judicious editorial direction needed to be in play from early on to streamline the plot and make the story valid and legitimate via the on-page narrative (or at least, much moreso). <br /> I also think it was a big mistake to try to ground it all with a "real" MU-world explanation-- 'cause there are about 23 zillion problems that come along with trying to make it "plausible", more or less. (The first one, of course, is how could there still be distinct species of sentient animals if they all seem to interbreed freely?) I would have been more inclined to buy a magic-based explanation for sentient talking funny-animals, really.<br /><br />But regardless of my critical observations, this was a DELIGHTFUL blast from the past, MikeW. And it certainly has me mulling over those old, forgotten minis that populated the wall-racks of our mid-80's LCS, y'know? Thanks a million--!<br /><br />HBHumanbellynoreply@blogger.com