tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post3959235026217840093..comments2024-03-19T10:41:35.976-05:00Comments on Bronze Age Babies: Non-Team vs. Faux-Team: Defenders 13Doughttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04248324005584963229noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-56074024397828726402012-08-07T18:03:58.524-05:002012-08-07T18:03:58.524-05:00Anyone think there's some ballot-stuffing goin...Anyone think there's some ballot-stuffing going on in the final poll? Dark Phoenix had a 67%-33% lead a fair way in, and now it stands right at 50-50. I find it hard to believe that all of the subsequent voters are more inclined toward Crisis...<br /><br />DougDoughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04248324005584963229noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-22014181146337803282012-08-07T06:20:10.450-05:002012-08-07T06:20:10.450-05:00Thanks for posting this! I recently got the 2 Def...Thanks for posting this! I recently got the 2 Defenders Masterworks books, this write-up reminded me I need to review some Defenders books on my reprints blog.<br /><br />Defenders was never the best Bronze Age book, I think it was more fun than the others. <br />I always loved Nebulon too, great look.<br /><br />As for voices, yes this would be a good future topic. I always thought this cartoon got Namor's voice right:<br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3GJS0LXEkI <br /><br />Doctor Strange was okay here too, but not how I've always "heard" him in my head.J.A. Morrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15800901321134394272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-1542404035682753272012-08-06T22:23:13.754-05:002012-08-06T22:23:13.754-05:00Fist thoughts on this issue - I thought Gil Kane d...Fist thoughts on this issue - I thought Gil Kane did a great job on the cover, Hulk & Hyperion duking it out in the foreground with Drs. Strange & Spectrum in the background exchanging energy blasts. Sal Buscema would have brought a different vibe if he had done the cover here. (Disclaimer - Gil Kane is one of my favourite Marvel artists ever!)<br /><br />As for the interior art, I've never been a huge fan of Klaus Janson's heavy inks; I think his heavy style is better suited to other artists who employ shading a lot like Tom Palmer or Gene Colan.. Sal's pencils have always been too sketchy for my taste (I've always preferred big brother John's powerful artwork over Sal) but you can clearly see he enjoyed drawing the Hulk in particular.<br /><br />The Squadron Sinister's costumes were well designed (with the glaring exception of Nighthawk) given the fact that this was a team initially created by Rascally Roy as an in-joke (Marvel's knockoff of DC's JLA). So Doug & Karen, even though Hyperion's outfit reminds you more of Shazam than Superman, you gotta admit it's memorable and distinctive.<br /><br />Doug, I have to agree with Anthony on why Len Wein decided to not have Hulk transform back into Banner regularly. He simply wanted the Hulk in his storylines more than Banner and probably hoped readers like you wouldn't ask the obvious (if Hulk is calm why isn't he transforming back to Banner?).<br /><br />I thought Namor's black suit at this time was effective, although he could have lost the arm wings. Nebulon was a great character here too.<br /><br /><br />- Mike 'Marvel for gold, DC for silver' from Trinidad & Tobago.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-85507258421875662912012-08-06T16:44:18.227-05:002012-08-06T16:44:18.227-05:00Wow, what a DELIGHT to have this story (from this ...Wow, what a DELIGHT to have this story (from this title. . . from this period. . . ) brought back into the spotlight! An incredibly welcome refresher, as I know that this story and the BoEM & Wrecking Crew tales that immediately followed had been getting kind of jumbled in my memory. Heck, even though it wasn't an "arc", per se, I think a case could have been made somehow for including issues 13 through 19 in our recent bracketology venture.<br /><br />My own bits of observation:<br /><br />-Yep, Banner did pop up on occassion in this book-- but not very often,naturally. There was a sense that Banner & Stephen were in fact rather close-- to my younger eyes, it seemed like they related to each other as the two "grown-ups" in this group. In spite of their current disparate stations in life, their paths had initially been similar in that they were extremely highly-regarded professionals in their respective scientific fields. I cannot imagine this Stephen Strange sending either Banner or the Hulk off to another world as part of the Illuminati plot that ultimately led to World War Hulk. (Although, heh, LOVED seeing him taking a beligerent Subby by the metaphorical ear here, and making him help metaphorically clean the metaphorical house with all the rest of the metaphorical kids. . .<br /><br />-I think this is where the tone of the book in general finally tilted (for awhile) towards traditional superheroey-ness, in spite of being a so-called non-Team. Prior to that, it was very heavy on mystical/supernatural/demon-dimension type threats.<br /><br />-Doug, speaking of characters' voices (and I'm thinking more literally, here), d'you suppose that might be a possible fun future topic-- sort of an idle, blue-sky, while-away-the-time type one? To wit: Whose voice do you hear in your mind's ear when you read these characters' dialog?<br /><br />-The spell wears off. "Oh my God! I'm the WHIZZER!!!" ZOOOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMM!!!!<br />Anyone remember that particular highly memorable panel? (In a different book, mind you)<br /><br />-I too loved the Greenskin we had for so many years in the Defenders. The Simple Hulk, as I've said many times, is my Hulk. And Len Wein was one of the best (albeit undersung) Hulk writers. This team saw him through The. Worst. Moment. of his life (in this incarnation), and he forged bonds with all of them-- particularly Val and Stephen-- that was just shamefully forgotten about by other writers in later years. Luke Cage, a bit later, was also someone he trusted and came to respect, as it turns out (we find this out in Marvel Team-Up, of all places). Spiderman as well. <br /><br />Whoops- gotta go get the lovely WifeBelly's birthday moving along-- thanks for listening, eh?<br /><br />HBhumanbellynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-34872367155568719642012-08-06T13:28:42.114-05:002012-08-06T13:28:42.114-05:00I loved this story too. This was my introdcution ...I loved this story too. This was my introdcution to the Squadron Sinister, and I didn't become aware of the Squadron Supreme until Englehart used them in the Avengers but probably because the lineups were a bit different I never had any problem telling them apart in the context of whichever particular stories they appeared. <br />Regarding Bruce Banner, he made a few brief appearances (in the Avengers, the only time he showed up was in issue 3, having transformed and running away befoe he could be seen after the end of the Hulk & Subby's first teamup and their battle with the mighty assemblers! BTW, to my recall, the only time Subby ever met Quicksilver was in an early issue of X-Men wherein Magneto tried to convince him to join the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants; otherwise I don't recall that Namor & Pietro ever fought.<br />Finally, I'm pretty sure it was Sal Buscema who drew the Squadron Sinester's first appearance in the Avengers and thus likely designed their costumes. Yeah, their not particularly great but considering that they were apparently originally intended as a one-time joke by Roy Thomas, to have knock-offs of four of the most famed members of the JLA take on the Avengers, the costumes weren't that bad and were certainly distinct from their DC counterparts. Of course, Roy just couldn't help repeating the joke with some convoluted twists. But that's part of what made Marvel comics fun to read!Fred W. Hillhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07602124919964053532noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-64229482931334613752012-08-06T12:14:37.916-05:002012-08-06T12:14:37.916-05:00RE: the cover.
The color scheme is evocative of m...RE: the cover.<br /><br />The color scheme is evocative of modern coloring techniques, isn't it? I can't think of too many Bronze Age covers that use that palette with that degree of blending.<br /><br />DougDoughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04248324005584963229noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-38273898174421202732012-08-06T11:48:10.053-05:002012-08-06T11:48:10.053-05:00I love this issue! When this came out, I had just ...I love this issue! When this came out, I had just taken the full-time plunge into reading comics... I think the prior ish was the first Defenders book I'd bought with the intent of collecting the series. Len was my favorite writer, Sal was (and still is!) my favorite artist, Klaus was my favorite inker, Hulk was my favorite hero, and the Defenders was my favorite team and book. Come to think of it, the soft spot I've always had for the Squadron Sinister/Supreme originated here as well. Nighthawk became my favorite Defender (without a title) because I was there at the begining of his time with the team.<br /><br />Not sure why there's no love for this cover; it's one of my all-time favorites! The colors are fantastic! I'm not convinced Sal could have done it better! <br /><br />Best part of this story is where Doctor Strange kidnapped Namor into the battle. This highlighted the non-team spirit of the book, and the loose-cannon nature of the personalities involved. It also dramatically set up Namor's exit from the team.<br /><br />I remember Banner playing a key role in a David Kraft storyline, defusing a nuclear reactor will under stress and fear of becoming the Hulk in the middle of his efforts. And, as indicated above, it was cool to see Banner interact with the others during the Sons of the Serpent storyline! <br /><br />Thanks for the memories of one of my all-time faves!!<br /><br />RicAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-82895720800749044162012-08-06T09:30:50.448-05:002012-08-06T09:30:50.448-05:00Sorry, in my post, I meant to say Hyperion's c...Sorry, in my post, I meant to say Hyperion's costume is the lamest, even worse that Whizzer's here (almost as bad..).david_bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00218727673816200051noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-11161976384104166012012-08-06T07:45:58.959-05:002012-08-06T07:45:58.959-05:00I just reread this story last week, in my beloved ...I just reread this story last week, in my beloved Defenders MW, Volume 2.. <br /><br />Both Masterworks Vol 1&2 have become my FAVS thus far. Just looking at the development of this team unfold, from the weird, occultic birthpangs of having Doc Strange in charge, to the 'teamiest' non-team built up to take on our beloved A-team for Loki and Dormammu, and now this story. If you had to pick one of the funnest tales to introduce a new long-running character, this was it. I loved the Wrecking Crew and Serpent stories to follow, which I still have handy in my collection.<br /><br />While I was **really** missing Hawkeye, Kyle was soon going to fill the hole pretty well in time. I still would have preferred this crafty yet 'down-on-his-luck' phase of Clint to the whiney, yet rich Kyle, but that's life in the Bronze, I suppose.<br /><br />I've always had a hard time with the Squad Sinister (or supreme), both looks and backstory. I understand their DC-cloned baddies, but Hyperion's costume..? It's the lamest one I've ever seen, send to Whizzer here. At least Doc Spectrum has some genuinely cool threads, and seemed pretty scary in Ironman 63/64 (which I had as a kid..). They just seemed like a 2nd rate 'smucked-together' team of baddies, when both Masters of Evil and Zodiac were not available. <br /><br />A fun frothy story from start to finish, I definitely liked the cover of ish 14 MUCH better. I know Kane did a few Defenders covers around this time, but I disappointed in 'em all. Sal was so much better, and could have really done memorable covers. The inks inside are PERFECT as well.<br /><br />As for the Hulk's more relaxed demeanor, I recall Stephen typically had him in a spell to retain (yet subdue..) his anger. You saw him revert to Banner a handful of times in these pages when Stephen (or Hulk) was knocked out (like during the Serpent attack..).<br /><br />Yes, with both Namor and Hulk in your team, you definitely had to 'have game', and Stephen was the perfect choice to lead.<br /><br />Despite the so-so cover, this is one of the best early Defender stories.david_bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00218727673816200051noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-81020163319796481892012-08-06T07:27:36.785-05:002012-08-06T07:27:36.785-05:00The Hulk's transformations in his own comic we...The Hulk's transformations in his own comic were still controlled by his emotional state at this time. One could make the case that in addition to being bored, the Hulk is also somewhat annoyed at having to listen to " stupid magician " talking about shrunken heads. The most obvious reason for him not turning back is the Wein wanted the Hulk not Banner in the story. It saves a few panels of art not having him transform back into the Hulk when Nighthawk shows up. In fairness to Wein the Hulk is his own magazine didn't always changed back to Banner that quickly all the time. The reason sometimes cited is that his seemingly calm outward appearance belies some inner turmoil. <br />The Hulk in the Avengers movie seems to mirror early Defenders issues. That's why the third time was the charm for the Hulk. Whedon seemed to capture that vibe as well as being inspired by the Hulk Thor battle in Defenders 10.Anthonynoreply@blogger.com