tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post6451892081974794578..comments2024-03-19T10:41:35.976-05:00Comments on Bronze Age Babies: Discuss: Batman V. Superman -SpoiledDoughttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04248324005584963229noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-48653348712830313762016-04-06T19:24:01.766-05:002016-04-06T19:24:01.766-05:00Excellent job. Excellent job. spencerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14576369979304207262noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-73945718241951768072016-04-04T10:20:18.514-05:002016-04-04T10:20:18.514-05:00I have the same problems with this film I had with...I have the same problems with this film I had with the last Star Trek film—which I have no desire to ever see again. It is all a rehash, reassemblage of past stories with no commitment to telling either an original story or retelling of a fondly remembered story.<br /><br />Watched the original Superman movie the other night, and the special effects are so dated it is almost unwatchable. But they got the character exactly right. They got Ma and Pa Kent exactly right. They got the tone—the wonder and duty of Superman—exactly right. I found myself wishing for a remake of *that* movie, with better effects and perhaps higher stakes. Apart from its stalkerish deadbeat dad aspects, Superman Returns got at least some of the beats right.Pat Henryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787799814630339641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-61730702233055809802016-04-04T08:52:43.539-05:002016-04-04T08:52:43.539-05:00HB --
Done! You and PFG should receive a troll-fr...HB --<br /><br />Done! You and PFG should receive a troll-free email very soon. <br /><br />DougDoughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04248324005584963229noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-44896419423992888582016-04-04T08:43:20.861-05:002016-04-04T08:43:20.861-05:00Oh man, RB, yer singin' my song as far as the ...Oh man, RB, yer singin' my song as far as the modern-day movie-watching experience goes (although I believe that sort of thing may be kind of cyclical-- I believe the 1930's was also a period known for its "lively" audience behavior, IIRC).<br /><br />"Tetrahedron" is a very cool blog/pen name--! Yeesh, why couldn't that have popped into my head at the spur of the moment, rather than "Humanbelly"--? One sounds cool & flashy & heroic. . . the other sounds like the socially outcast next door neighbor in a failed sitcom. . . <br /><br />Wow, PFG-- really? Like, with the Avengers logo and all? Hmmmm-- I'm definitely an XL. Two kids in college (or at the cusp), so a collector's price would likely put me on the outside of the fence, but. . . hey Doug, when you've a minute, if you felt like being the contact info arbiter--? (You guys are true pals--)<br /><br />Ahhh yes, and to ALL the kind folks here, can I just add a knowing smile, a nod, and an appreciative salute to your collective maturity and reserve.<br /><br />HBHumanbellynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-82319202791818033372016-04-04T08:39:51.273-05:002016-04-04T08:39:51.273-05:00Yeeeeah, sorry. No interest in seeing it at all. ...Yeeeeah, sorry. No interest in seeing it at all. Just seemed to be (concept-wise) to be simply a big-budgeted fanboy-flick. <br /><br />After reading some of the comments here.., I tend to side with Doug as to it's failure to really, effectively steer the DC movie franchise into anything I'd actually want to spend money on, now or in the future. <br /><br />I liked the first Burton film as a splendid masterpiece of story-telling and visually an effective mood-setting genre. Like Miller's first Batman tale.., they took that one-off film and emulate it for the rest of the franchise, to include other characters.., and the devolving process started. Much like that regrettable Green Hornet attempt a few years back.., once-interesting concepts are used, perhaps mocked, then thrown aside as mistakes. <br /><br />Some of the Marvel flicks haven't been all that good either (FF and Spidey to name the worst.....), but at least Whedon created a good template for story-telling in the Marvel Universe, which DC is somehow still too busy ignoring.<br /><br />...................<br /><br /><br />I ponder..: Supposedly I (or my tastes) are too old or 'old-school' for today's DC..? <br /><br />I recall an era forty- to fifty-some years ago when my feelings towards was just the opposite way 'round. <br /><br />All my love to Long Ago...david_bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00218727673816200051noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-52891119164959278052016-04-04T04:23:44.670-05:002016-04-04T04:23:44.670-05:00Man, the word campy is being thrown around here li...Man, the word campy is being thrown around here like that's a bad thing; as Karen said, we're talking about people with superpowers running around in spandex suits. At least a bit of camp is in the genre's DNA.<br /><br />And Doug, c'mon, that's a low blow insulting your 17 year-old students like that...Edo Bosnarnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-6705630118471026232016-04-04T01:52:01.617-05:002016-04-04T01:52:01.617-05:00I have not seen the film but I can tell you this. ...I have not seen the film but I can tell you this. The comments I've heard are both positive and negative on both sides. More and more I am choosing to forgo the theatrical release and wait for the DVD. The last few super hero movies I've been too have too many kids making noise in the theater when they shouldn't be there because it's film that isn't for kids. The theater is in a very nice area of town and I've found audience members talking at the screen, throwing popcorn and kicking the back of my seat. I save more on gas money and snacks when I just get the movie on Amazon or Walmart and watch it as many times as I want without interruption. So I'll be waiting this Tuesday to watch Star Wars: A Force Awakens for the first time on DVD because I didn't want to wast my money by watching it in a theater where there are a couple of hundred screaming kids and fans with no respect or manners. I get tired of going to a very nice theater and not being able to enjoy a simple movie without distractions. R. B.noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-85754752652374826332016-04-04T00:01:53.693-05:002016-04-04T00:01:53.693-05:00Hiya,
Rarely do I commment due to being in anothe...Hiya,<br /><br />Rarely do I commment due to being in another timezone (so I always miss the action as it is unfolding), but I do read every day....<br /><br />I liked the movie. I did not like Man of Steel.<br />I did not like the Nolan films.<br /><br />But I did like BvS.<br />Maybe because I went in with reduced expectations.<br /><br />But I found it to be less overstuffed and maddeningly and confusingly twisting disparate storylines together than, say, Age of Ultron for example. I'll never understand why the BAB crowd in general were not extremely frustrated with how they mangled those beloved characters and storylines for that trainwreck of a poorly scripted movie. That felt like a grave injustice. They ruined the entire Ultron concept and distorted the storylines until they were unrecognizable and flatly inferior to the source material.<br /><br />With BvS, I had no childhood love for the base storylines which they could destroy.<br />So I just watched it for whatever it was going to be.<br />And I liked it.<br /><br />Re: Batman using weapons...well, most of the using a gun and shooting people action was done in a dream sequence (or was it a future vision?)...<br />Furthermore, Affleck does plainly state in one scene that he and Alfred are criminals.<br />So if the Batman character as presented in this movie is different or going through a learning process for his own development, so be it. I had no issues with seeing a different take. I was entertained.<br /><br />Tetrahedron<br /><br />tetrahedronhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07233011202893578075noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-56647511248252759492016-04-03T22:19:26.808-05:002016-04-03T22:19:26.808-05:00Hiya,
And after an afternoon of trying to think o...Hiya,<br /><br />And after an afternoon of trying to think of something witty to say I concede that the rest of you are much better at that than I am, so I'll keep this simple.<br /><br />I was entertained. I had problems with the film, the Batman and Superman of my youth wouldn't have done what they did, but that I'm OK with that. These are the characters for a new era, changeable as they always have been or they would have vanished with the rest of the Golden Agers.<br /><br />Now get off my lawn.<br /><br />Seeya,<br /><br />pfgavigan<br /><br />Hey Humanbelly, I got a lead on authentic bomber jackets. How high can you go??pfgaviganhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05446007678336988354noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-91604179756525994232016-04-03T20:43:05.655-05:002016-04-03T20:43:05.655-05:00J.A.
I'm sure you can.J.A.<br /><br />I'm sure you can.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-68209455963542907052016-04-03T20:23:29.475-05:002016-04-03T20:23:29.475-05:00Yeah, I can remember when I had my first beer.Yeah, I can remember when I had my first beer.J.A. Morrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15800901321134394272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-45308529526927809032016-04-03T20:03:52.309-05:002016-04-03T20:03:52.309-05:00And, Karen, Superman did NOT indiscriminately dest...And, Karen, Superman did NOT indiscriminately destroy a city to get at his enemy, killing thousands in the process. Not sure what you were viewing, but it surely was not Man of Steel. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-76271269210098372412016-04-03T20:00:57.286-05:002016-04-03T20:00:57.286-05:00Well, Karen, I suppose a morally superior tone is ...Well, Karen, I suppose a morally superior tone is just what our society needs? What's wrong with realistic personas? Snyder's Batman and Superman are relatable. They find themselves pondering questions and in the end make a choice. Superman dies! He sacrifices! Batman has an epiphany! How are they not heroic? When you ask how "far can you deviate from an accepted characterization and still retain the essential core traits of the character," I can only respond: Have you been reading Batman and/or Superman as currently depicted in DC Comics? No, of course not. So keep "shaking your head" and continue to moralize, pontificate, etc. Truth to tell: There's nothing wrong with what Superman did in Man of Steel. He had no choice. He had to stop Zod. Would you prefer he had a conversation with him? Should Batman allow criminals to run amok? Should he risk civilians in order to protect the sanctity of a thug's life? For the most part, those that dislike this movie, dislike the portrayals - probably fall into the camp of Bernie Sanders supporters - the give me free college and pizza crowd. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-69391243925776045952016-04-03T19:49:26.802-05:002016-04-03T19:49:26.802-05:00I haven't seen this film yet, and hadn't p...I haven't seen this film yet, and hadn't planned to do so. My sentiments lean towards Doug's, and I have a taste for lighter (even, at times, positively humorous) material. I applaud the variety of approaches found in comics today, with the accompanying variety of subject matter. Thus I've no problem with a film taking a 'different approach', with the caveat that it should remain true to character. Many good points have been made above; Doug, Karen, Rip, Martinex1 all have convinced me to see the film. At least give it a fair shot, 'tis the least I can do. Although I will wait for the DVD (money for cinema is limited in our humble budget, and my coin is held in reserve for Civil War)...Redartzhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08221459636234713619noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-63807038209044876592016-04-03T19:06:09.855-05:002016-04-03T19:06:09.855-05:00I suppose one of the questions is how far can you ...I suppose one of the questions is how far can you deviate from an accepted characterization and still retain the essential core traits of the character? For me, both Superman and Batman in this film have gone over the edge. If this were some sort of 'Elseworlds' film, I suppose that would be one thing. But this is being presented to the public as the company's idea of who their characters are -and it just doesn't jibe with years and years of established characterization. True, much changed with the new 52, but you'd think they'd want to make something that appealed to a mass audience, in particular to families. I know people who are not taking their kids to this movie, because they've heard about Batman killing and the general dark tone. And I think they're right, but that's a shame.<br /><br />Generally speaking, as much as I love super-heroes, when people start going on about bringing 'reality' to them, I just shake my head. We are talking about people running around in costumes with names like 'Superman' who can fly and shoot beams out of their eyes. It's fantasy. It's intended to be taken and enjoyed on a different level. I enjoy a dose of reality -the idea of these people living in our world -but they are called super-HEROES. I want to see them behave heroically. I want to see them overcome the moral failings most of us have and rise above it to show that sacrifice, that doing the right thing, is important. I don't want to see a Superman who indiscriminately destroys a city to get at his enemy, killing thousands in the process. I don't want to see a Batman who is so angry and bitter he starts torturing and killing criminals. Otherwise, what's the point? Whoever is the most powerful gets their way? It reminds me of when the slasher flicks started glorifying the killers, turning them into the stars of the films. I never got that, at all.<br /><br />Batman and Superman aren't heroes in this film. But then, what else could you expect from a director who doesn't see why we should have a problem with the destruction at least partially caused by Superman in Man of Steel because the Deathstar in Star Wars killed a whole planet's worth of people? When you live in a world that's morally grey, heroes don't exist, there's just people with different viewpoints.Karenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17032477453891087135noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-86648245373858738232016-04-03T18:13:14.031-05:002016-04-03T18:13:14.031-05:00Doug, Maybe your 17 your students have a better gr...Doug, Maybe your 17 your students have a better grasp on reality than you do. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-82642831375620501942016-04-03T17:39:23.878-05:002016-04-03T17:39:23.878-05:00Fair enough Rip. I will let you know what I think ...Fair enough Rip. I will let you know what I think if I do see it. I like your site by the way. Martinex1noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-77157531073954460282016-04-03T17:15:16.520-05:002016-04-03T17:15:16.520-05:00Well I do believe one of my 17-year old students h...Well I do believe one of my 17-year old students has found me on the BAB!<br /><br />DougDoughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04248324005584963229noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-42836220960194698922016-04-03T16:35:17.970-05:002016-04-03T16:35:17.970-05:00And, Doug, by the way, NO - Evans is NOT Cap! Down...And, Doug, by the way, NO - Evans is NOT Cap! Downey is NOT Stark! The movie personas are a departure from the comics. The comics have followed the movies. Your perspective is confused, at best! Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-14802070865520529352016-04-03T16:30:48.587-05:002016-04-03T16:30:48.587-05:00This is an awesome movie. The most humane and appe...This is an awesome movie. The most humane and appealing depiction of comic book superheroes to date! Yea, Batman kills! Get over it! He should kill the scum!<br />No, Superman does not owe humanity a damn thing! Get over it! It's about time a director had the courage to put superheroes on the screen as realistic personas.<br />This movie is a refreshing departure from the borderline campy crap that Marvel has been putting out!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-50359767701415964582016-04-03T16:18:31.350-05:002016-04-03T16:18:31.350-05:00Rip --
Point well taken about the Ultimates.
Won...Rip --<br /><br />Point well taken about the Ultimates.<br /><br />Wonder if we'll see <a href="http://cmro.travis-starnes.com/images/ultimate_issues/ultimates/v2/006.jpg" rel="nofollow">Ultimate Valkyrie</a> on film?<br /><br /><br />DougDoughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04248324005584963229noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-19133995921230852762016-04-03T14:18:09.888-05:002016-04-03T14:18:09.888-05:00I'll add a positive comment:Best thing about t...I'll add a positive comment:Best thing about this movie is that the opening credits say "Batman created by Bob Kane and Bill Finger." About time Finger got some credit.J.A. Morrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15800901321134394272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-52190836461897002192016-04-03T14:15:11.304-05:002016-04-03T14:15:11.304-05:00I loved this movie. I have more to say and I said ...I loved this movie. I have more to say and I said in this review:<br /><br />http://ripjaggerdojo.blogspot.com/2016/03/dawn-of-justice-dojo-review.html<br /><br />I know I'm in the minority on this one, and I appreciate what everyone says, but I found the movie exciting, and the disparity between the heroes in the comics and on the screen doesn't seem that strong to me. No less so than the Marvel version which gives us the team already altered for film by way of The Ultimates. <br /><br />Rip OffRip Jaggerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09936426877024852134noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-80895907777269733692016-04-03T13:48:05.127-05:002016-04-03T13:48:05.127-05:00I too have not yet seen this movie. So I can only ...I too have not yet seen this movie. So I can only comment on why I have no urge to see it. <br /><br />I think Doug may have hit the nail on the head with his comment about artists. There may be a lack of respect for the source material by some making these films. Comics have long been considered a secondary art form, and have not been considered true literary art historically. While we here would disagree with that, many others would dismiss the source material..knowing better. Marvel seems to have embraced its catalog as best as it could while others like DC feel a need to rethink it, modernize it, make it more gritty. Maybe they don't realize that the comics resonated because they were developed under years of talent and thought and a clear vision and that perhaps folks like Lee and Kirby knew what they were doing. I believe that their sensibilities coming out of WWII and understanding what heroism and sacrifice meant really shaped their comic heroes; and that their hope for the future shaped their wondrous adventures and worlds; deconstructing that sense of honor and hope may be what I find distasteful in some of these modern films. <br /><br />This particular movie has advertised itself as the antithesis of what I loved in comics. The world is bleak enough without adding its grimness to what should be escapism. It all has a rather nihilistic perspective and that comes through in its color pallet, its seriousness, it's surface philosophy of cynicism. Reading Karen's review, I cannot believe what Ma and Pa Kent are saying. What a selfish, self-serving, and uncaring approach. It is the same thing that bothered me in Man of Steel with the "maybe you should have let the school bus sink" comment. I believe most people are good, and that most people encourage their children to be kind and help people in need. Are Americans really starting to encourage the opposite; help yourself first and if it's not too much inconvenience help others? Did the Kents raise Gordon Gekko and Clark Kent? And do our heroes really feel that life isn't precious, we should just shoot away? So where is the Justice that is so prevalent in the title? Or is it really vengeance? I don't want to see a movie that paints heroes with that mentality. Me... I'd rather watch an episode of Superfriends. <br /><br />I don't feel the same way about Marvel's upcoming Civil War. Maybe I'm just a Zuvembie, but I think it is simply that there are hints and glimpses of true honor and sacrifice and humor and sunlight. Just having Ant-Man in it gives it a sense of fun and hope...even if the heroes are fighting. <br />Martinex1noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-56712677853028445812016-04-03T12:47:44.290-05:002016-04-03T12:47:44.290-05:00I'll begin by stating that I have not seen the...I'll begin by stating that I have not seen the film, and will not at all feel deprived if I never do. I paid to see <i>Man of Steel</i>, and the further I get away from it the more I want my money back.<br /><br />When school resumed from break this past Monday, several of my students asked if I'd gone to see <i>BatmanvSuperman</i>. When I said "no, and I won't" there were some in disbelief. "But it was sooooooooo gooooooooood!!" "Man, Batman was all bada$$!!" I simply told them that the film did not contain "my" Batman and Superman. After a brief explanation, they accepted my position.<br /><br /><a href="https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CfEuQzXWEAAzSrf.jpg" rel="nofollow">Jump to this photo, please</a>. <br /><br />What's wrong with that? Nothing is wrong with that, save there is apparently no room for it in this version of the DCU. You know, thinking back, the last good DC film was Tim Burton's first <i>Batman</i> flick. After that, the rest of that series devolved. I somewhat liked <i>Batman Begins</i>, and while I appreciate Heath Ledger's very scary Joker, <i>The Dark Knight</i> was a bit too intense at times, and the inclusion of Two-Face in the third act seemed like it should have been saved for the next picture.<br /><br />Marvel has consistently given us what we expect in their MCU pictures (their properties controlled by other studios? Not so much). Their casting has been impeccable -- Robert Downey, Jr. <i>is</i> Tony Stark, Chris Evans <i>is</i> Captain America, and so on. Hey, I get it that director's are "artists"... but they should more view themselves as "caretakers", because I'm really not interested in some young buck thinking he's a better artist than Stan Lee, Jack Kirby, Steve Ditko, etc. It's all there, man... Just bring it to life! I don't need someone with a "different vision" reinventing the wheel.<br /><br />William, as to the hero comments. Again, I've not seen the picture so I'm making a generalization here. From what I've heard and from what you've detailed, I guess I'd view <i>BatmanvSuperman</i> as I would a basketball game. There's a plus-minus chart there -- you score 20 but your guy gets 15, you're only a plus-5. Oh, but you turned the ball over four times? Now you're a plus-1. Wait, you got 6 rebounds? Now you're a plus-7. But then you had four fouls. Now you're a plus-3. So two or three heroic acts don't automatically get it for me. Machine guns on the Batmobile and branding criminals? That's starting in a very deep "minus" hole as far as I am concerned.<br /><br />DougDoughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04248324005584963229noreply@blogger.com