tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post8206615993152809229..comments2024-03-19T10:41:35.976-05:00Comments on Bronze Age Babies: The Greatest Hero of Them All - Legion of Super-Heroes 38Doughttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04248324005584963229noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-42010339049230369242017-04-05T07:15:08.769-05:002017-04-05T07:15:08.769-05:00"The very essence of being a writer for super..."The very essence of being a writer for superhero comics is the knack to explain the inexplicable. That is the job. Roy Thomas made a famous career out of trawling through old stories, searching for a way to knit them together in a way that made sense.<br /><br />If DC really HAD committed itself to the questionable and ultimately bankrupt idea that there would only one survivor of Krypton and he would have no junior career, then write him out of Legion history entirely. COIE reknit the universe, so why elaborate further? Maintaining the conceit that somehow the Legion is a kids’ club paying homage to the memory of Superboy is the problem; all things considered, this homage is one of the most trivial and unimportant aspects of Legion, so just ditch it. Reknit reality so they were inspired by the career of SuperMAN, or ignore the conceit altogether.<br /><br />You get the feeling through all this that the COIE writers thought they were a lot more masterful of the material than they really were. “Gee, watch us smash the bottle city of Kandor, tee-hee!”<br /><br />It’s like a fan-fic written by folks who aren’t fans."<br /><br />Perfectly and succintly put.<br /><br />When DC went ahead with the Crisis, they handed over the Superman universe to "fans" who didn't care for Superman, hated the mythos, Lois Lane, Supergirl, Superboy, the Legion, Krypto, the Fortress of Solitude... So they decided to break Superman and turn him into something else, pretending they were bringing him back to basics when in reality they were throwing the baby out with the bathwater, limiting the kind of stories could be told with the character and wrecking his universe because they hated it and wanted to make their fanfiction canon.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-2899619299652830072014-09-23T07:18:59.560-05:002014-09-23T07:18:59.560-05:00Oh, by the way, I agree with Teresa that DC could ...Oh, by the way, I agree with Teresa that DC could have divorced the LSH from regular continuity easily and never look back, not to mention her other thoughts. Unnecessary complications and confusion over the years, and now they've tried to go back to the pre-Magic Wars Legion, but the Genie is already out of the bottle. dbutler16https://www.blogger.com/profile/00046066729353639991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-81691839929510933442014-09-23T07:14:22.197-05:002014-09-23T07:14:22.197-05:00Doug, when you ask about the Levitz/Giffen series,...Doug, when you ask about the Levitz/Giffen series, where the Legion aged to adulthood, are you referring to issues 50-63 of the Baxter series (1988-89)? If so, I have all of those issues. They're not as enjoyable as the earlier issues (I despise the art, and the writing gets darker, as if to match the art) but I still like them. I'd give them a B-, whereas I'd give almost all the other Levitz Legion stuff a solid A.dbutler16https://www.blogger.com/profile/00046066729353639991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-31423694760515151362014-09-22T22:11:02.345-05:002014-09-22T22:11:02.345-05:00Thanks, everyone, for the passionate discourse tod...Thanks, everyone, for the passionate discourse today!<br /><br />I need to make a correction to a comment I made above, about the Super Blog Team-Up. Somehow I'd missed a date change, and the big day is actually Wednesday. So for those of you who look forward to such things, you have one less day to wait!<br /><br />DougDoughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04248324005584963229noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-82970778731519229572014-09-22T21:52:45.189-05:002014-09-22T21:52:45.189-05:00Ok, first off...Sorry for the rant. But the LSH is...Ok, first off...Sorry for the rant. But the LSH is my favorite comicbook ever. Haters be damned.<br />I've been pulling the LSH off the spinner rack since the Dave Cockrum era. <br /><br />As a side note: I haven't been around lately. Had some health stuff. Better now (-:<br />Glad you all are still here. I wish I had checked in sooner for the LSH love-fest. <br /><br />In the later years of the LSH, leading up to COIE, Superboy and Supergirl were rare guest stars. Mostly a couple rare panels.<br /><br />DC could have divorced the LSH from regular continuity easily and never look back. They could have just not brought it up. The LSH was barely part of the regular DC continuity already.<br /><br />I've collected all incarnations of the LSH. The continuity grafts were so painful. <br />The Cosmic Boy miniseries... Trying to re-establish the LSH in the post COIE. Another continuity skin graft. Ouch!<br /><br />There was a real sense of loss to me as a long time reader of the LSH. They had 30 years of unbroken continuity. No Golden or Silver age versions to come to terms with, no Earth 2 version needed. <br />It wasn't a "Heroes from the Future" comic book. It was a comic book about heroes living in a Future Present. They even tracked the year they were in.<br /><br />The LSH always had a firewall against continuity issues. They had been dealing with it for a long time. The LSH started in 1958. They had to adapt to Superman getting rebooted, even before the great Byrne.<br />Whenever they dealt with characters from the past, it was said "But the records from your time were lost long ago." That left room for change.<br /><br />Fast forward 25 years after COIE and many reboots. They brought back 90% intact the pre Crisis LSH.<br />What a waste. Editorial mandates are more ruthless than Computo.Teresahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01213481870704579199noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-84653955983734397712014-09-22T21:17:03.110-05:002014-09-22T21:17:03.110-05:00Personally, I think the whole COIE saga was way to...Personally, I think the whole COIE saga was way too convoluted. Multiple dimension storylines are tricky at best pull off, and I think the Legion suffered from this.<br /><br />First off, the cover : Sienkiewicz is an acquired taste. I've never been a fan of his art. Generally, I find it too angular and scratchy for my taste, but I have to admit this cover really is dramatic. By the way, the artwork, especially the faces here, looks reminiscent of Paul Gulacy, don't you think? <br /><br />I'm thinking maybe the ultimate reasoning behind this story was to separate the Superboy persona from the Legion, because for many years this title was known as Superboy AND the Legion of Superheroes. Perhaps someone decided the Legion had grown up and needed to stand on its own without the input of DC's flagship hero. Anyone care to expand on this hypothesis?<br /><br /><br />- Mike 'dazed and confused' from Trinidad & Tobago.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-28097892010841844662014-09-22T17:32:18.459-05:002014-09-22T17:32:18.459-05:00Pat Henry: I like your way of handling Superboy be...Pat Henry: I like your way of handling Superboy better than what DC came up with. If you're going to do away with a character, bite the bullet and do away with the character.<br /><br />Prowler: regarding your second question, I believe there was a pre-Crisis story that explained that the normal human lifespan in the 30th century was 200 years or something, so it wasn't unusual for people in their twenties (as the Legion were supposed to be by the time of the story) to still refer to themselves as a boy, girl, kid or whatever. Hence so many of the Legionnaires still having juvenile-sounding (to us) code names. Superboy's knowledge of this was erased before he returned to the 20th century so he wouldn't be tempted to try to extend the Kent's lifespans. Personally, I think that a 17- or 18-year-old with a potential 200-year lifespan would be no less desperate to be considered "grown up" than one in today's world and wouldn't be able to shed their boy/girl/etc. code name fast enough, so I never really bought this.<br /><br />RustyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-29798423995281957062014-09-22T16:07:42.461-05:002014-09-22T16:07:42.461-05:00[corrected]
Prowler:
1. Because this was Silver/B...[corrected]<br />Prowler:<br /><br />1. Because this was Silver/Bronze Superboy. Superman was de-powered post Crisis.<br />2. Good question. A lot of the “kid’s clubhouse” stuff had been written out of LoSH, so not much point to “Us kids are here to play Superboy!”<br />3. Presumably, a mechanic to get him into the future where he could be slain by the writers while still leaving a memory that he’d inspired the Legion (see #2).<br />4. Chuckle. The other “super son” had better writers :DPat Henryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787799814630339641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-25948728161365081742014-09-22T16:04:01.125-05:002014-09-22T16:04:01.125-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Pat Henryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787799814630339641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-16830728461706811172014-09-22T15:31:04.579-05:002014-09-22T15:31:04.579-05:00I was waiting until the end of the reviews to give...I was waiting until the end of the reviews to give an overall assessment of the stories. If I had any complaints, I think it would be:<br /><br />1) Why is Superboy more powerful than Superman? <br /><br />2) Why don't these characters look more like kids? I mean, this could be any issue of any team book. The characters don't project an aura of adolescence to me. <br /><br />3) Why did Superboy have to fly the bubble back? Was it damaged? Was there an issue with it's guidance system or power supply? I'm guessing there was still a threat that Time Trapper could alter it's course or pluck it from the time stream.<br /><br />4) Shouldn't Superboy's line have been "It is finished" rather than "It is done"?<br /><br />The Prowler (doing what she likes, doing what she likes).<br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-79049843621819818502014-09-22T14:57:41.248-05:002014-09-22T14:57:41.248-05:00Am I the only one who thinks Stan or Julie could&#...Am I the only one who thinks Stan or Julie could've handled the whole post-COIE Legion thing with a couple of asterisks and --ed footnotes? --Pat Henrynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-77228740441528798692014-09-22T14:30:13.302-05:002014-09-22T14:30:13.302-05:00J.A. --
I only bought these two issues because th...J.A. --<br /><br />I only bought these two issues because they had Superboy on the cover. I just love the cover to LoSH #37 with the Smallville sign!<br /><br />Did any of our readers partake of the Levitz/Giffen series, where the Legion aged to adulthood? I don't have any of those, but recall leafing through a few issues. Definitely not my cup of tea. <br /><br />I came back on board with the Legionnaires series and stuck with it (and the LoSH mag that alternated in the same month) through Legion Lost and Legion Worlds. I tried to get into the Mark Waid series, and although I have the entire run of it I don't think I read more than a couple of issues. Can anyone recommend those before I sell them?<br /><br />DougDoughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04248324005584963229noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-17678535857691104522014-09-22T14:17:12.678-05:002014-09-22T14:17:12.678-05:00I wonder how much of the "erasure of Superboy...I wonder how much of the "erasure of Superboy" was intended to settle copyright litigation with the Siegel family? 'Cause these stories read like they were written by corporate trial lawyers, not comics lovers.<br /><br />Rusty wrote, “Maybe there was no perfect way to rationalize the troublesome aspects of Legion history, but there had to be a better one than this.”<br /><br />The very essence of being a writer for superhero comics is the knack to explain the inexplicable. That is the job. Roy Thomas made a famous career out of trawling through old stories, searching for a way to knit them together in a way that made sense.<br /><br />If DC really HAD committed itself to the questionable and ultimately bankrupt idea that there would only one survivor of Krypton and he would have no junior career, then write him out of Legion history entirely. COIE reknit the universe, so why elaborate further? Maintaining the conceit that somehow the Legion is a kids’ club paying homage to the memory of Superboy is the problem; all things considered, this homage is one of the most trivial and unimportant aspects of Legion, so just ditch it. Reknit reality so they were inspired by the career of SuperMAN, or ignore the conceit altogether.<br /><br />You get the feeling through all this that the COIE writers thought they were a lot more masterful of the material than they really were. “Gee, watch us smash the bottle city of Kandor, tee-hee!”<br /><br />It’s like a fan-fic written by folks who aren’t fans.Pat Henryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06787799814630339641noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-66756765277052346252014-09-22T13:36:43.155-05:002014-09-22T13:36:43.155-05:00Nice review from Doug,I never read this one, even ...Nice review from Doug,I never read this one, even though I "defected" to DC when Byrne took over Superman & Action. I guess I never read this because Byrne didn't draw it. J.A. Morrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15800901321134394272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-51242316355209281632014-09-22T09:34:29.505-05:002014-09-22T09:34:29.505-05:00Super Blog Team-Up, part 4 (actually part 3 for us...Super Blog Team-Up, part 4 (actually part 3 for us) is coming Thursday. Prepare for review-a-palooza here at the BAB!!<br /><br />Four of 'em -- count 'em -- 4!<br /><br />DougDoughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04248324005584963229noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-46284227232893257162014-09-22T08:54:06.585-05:002014-09-22T08:54:06.585-05:00Ah, Edo -- you don't need to apologize! You...Ah, Edo -- you don't need to apologize! You're one of our stalwarts!<br /><br />And Murray -- jeez, brother. It was all bright and sunny here this morning until I read your comments. Sheesh! <br /><br />;)<br /><br />DougDoughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04248324005584963229noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-23565958729964436552014-09-22T07:56:40.463-05:002014-09-22T07:56:40.463-05:00Sorry for not commenting last week Doug; I was pre...Sorry for not commenting last week Doug; I was pretty sick at the beginning of last week and really couldn't come up with much to add.<br />Anyway, I'll just say I thought you did a fine job with these reviews. It's been interesting reading up on this attempt at "fixing" the Legion post-Crisis. It seems like Levitz really put some effort into it, but as noted by you and Rusty, some loose ends and/or inconsistencies (Mon-El, Supergirl) remained.<br /><br />And for what it's worth, I like the art, including the cover...Edo Bosnarnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-65371310079646954002014-09-22T07:42:26.507-05:002014-09-22T07:42:26.507-05:00Personally, I think the cover is a fargin' slo...Personally, I think the cover is a fargin' sloppy mess. Dawnstar dominates it way too much. I can think of a few covers from <i>Superboy and the Legion of Superheroes</i> annuals and such that do the job much better. <br /><br />Greg Laroque's art leaves me yawning. Stiff and clumsy.<br /><br />I'm not sure who in the comic book production line is in charge of word balloon choice and placement, but they really mucked this up. Trying to build the gravitas of the anti-matter skies and Superboy being powerless. Let's toss in ridiculous balloon of Lana going "Eek" like she saw a big bee. (To name one.)<br /><br />The final funeral splash page is another compositional mess. The art dominated by a big blob of blue and only the word balloon tells us it is Mon-El. Yeesh.<br /><br />Sorry, not a single heartstring tugged. Here or with <i>Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow?</i>. <br /><br />This is a lot of hindsight talking. Back then, despite the shock, I suspect I had a naive fanboy hope that DC may have flattened the grand old city, wait until you see what shining new city they'll build...!Murrayhttp://www.murraylindsay.ca/author_site.htmlnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-14197523617444854332014-09-22T07:31:25.653-05:002014-09-22T07:31:25.653-05:00Count me as one of the camp that believes that COI...Count me as one of the camp that believes that COIE was a bad idea, as DC had a great thing (and really not complicated!) going with their multiverse. Also, exhibit A as to why COIE was a bad thing is the Legion of Super-Heroes. I’m not sure any DC property has suffered as much due to those events as they have. You need a playbook and a PhD to figure out the Legion since then. Also, I think Rusty is spot on that DC hadn't thought through the effects of the Crisis.<br /><br />I loved this four parter, and I do prefer this story to Moore’s "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow". I agree with Doug that Moore seemed to want to shock. It was a very well done story, but I prefer this sort of story. Plus, I love Greg Laroque’s art, especially with Mike DeCarlo’s inking. <br />dbutler16https://www.blogger.com/profile/00046066729353639991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-58390052010591357252014-09-22T07:29:44.119-05:002014-09-22T07:29:44.119-05:00Thanks, Rusty, for launching the comments this mor...Thanks, Rusty, for launching the comments this morning!<br /><br />My apologies to all for a couple of the subpar scans. Last week was a busy one, and my attention to detail was not what it usually is! Additionally, the two-page spread at the end is as good as it can get -- my scanner bed just isn't large enough to accommodate an image of that size.<br /><br />DougDoughttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04248324005584963229noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5293155946761960913.post-21086936323322821452014-09-22T06:14:31.556-05:002014-09-22T06:14:31.556-05:00This four-part story really brought it home to me ...This four-part story really brought it home to me that the people at DC hadn't thought through the effects of the Crisis. My points have been raised by others, but it won't hurt to reiterate: Get rid of all the alternate Earths, then explain away the Superboy/Legion inconsistency with a brand new alternate Earth? For that matter, explain away Superboy but somehow forget Supergirl was also in the Legion? I got the impression that no one even thought of the Legion-related problems until after issue 12 of CoIE had been published. Maybe there was no perfect way to rationalize the troublesome aspects of Legion history, but there had to be a better one than this. (See also: Hawkman, Wonder Girl.)<br /><br />Also, did they ever come up with an explanation for Mon-El? It seems that, as of the conclusion of this four-parter, he came from Daxam in the main DC universe, traveled to the Krypton, Earth and Phantom Zone of the pocket universe, then emerged on 30th-century Earth in the main universe when Saturn Girl rescued him. I know that eventually this was all rendered moot by the "Glorithverse," but before then was there any attempt to explain it?<br /><br />RustyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com