Discuss: Philip Jose Farmer

Karen: Philip Jose Farmer is probably best known for his Riverworld series of novels, where every person who ever lived is reincarnated on an artificial world, and his Wold Newton stories, which unite a vast number of pulp heroes under a large family tree. Farmer's works are definitely unusual and in some cases provocative.

Karen: I was introduced to him by one of his most spectacularly bizarre novels, A Feast Unknown, which I read on a road trip with a friend when I was in college. I thought I would be getting a pastiche of Doc Savage and Tarzan -little did I know what I was getting myself into! Despite the unpleasant sexual situations, the action and adventure intrigued me, and I gave his Riverworld series a go years later, and was well rewarded as a reader. Farmer was inventive and fun. I've yet to read his World of Tiers novels, but perhaps I'll give them a try one of these days. I also just discovered recently that other writers have been expanding upon his Wold Newton universe. Any other fans of this writer and his work?

BAB Book Review: Marvel Comics - The Untold Story, part two

Marvel Comics: The Untold Story

Sean Howe

Harper, (c) 2012

Doug:  We're back with a look at the second half of Sean Howe's intimate examination of the history of Marvel Comics.  If you're somehow just landing here for the first time, or if you missed our first examination of this book last Friday, you might want to peruse the comments section.  Author Howe chimed in with some information in regard to some of the issues raised by our discussion. If it could be said that the first half of Howe's book is about heroes -- fallen and otherwise -- then it might be safe to say that (from this guy's perspective at least) the second half of this history is about villains.  And not of the super-powered variety.  Maybe the greedy type, but no one ends up "super" here for my money.  We'll be picking up the trail along about page 205 for those playing at home.

Jim Shooter, c. 1980's

Doug:  Last Friday you read this:  Karen: The second half really hammers home that comics is a business.  That actually gets rolling toward the end of the first half of the book, when Howe relates that James Galton was appointed to a VP position within Cadence Industries and placed in charge of the Marvel branch of operations.  Galton would go on to be a major player over most of the second half of Howe's story.  I think we can sum up the first pages of the recounting of Jim Shooter's tenure as EiC at Marvel in a few words:  restructuring, replacement, repercussions.  It seems, if we are to believe Howe's account, that Shooter came into the EiC position with a "take no prisoners" attitude.  One of the running themes throughout the remainder of this book is the up-and-down nature of the comic book market.  In the late 1970's Marvel was losing the steam they'd gained from the KISS Marvel Super Special and the Star Wars tie-in.  The Hulk and Spider-Man shows were still airing on CBS, but their advantage fell only to the respective comic books and not across the entire line.  As Shooter took the reins of the company, almost half of the titles were running late -- when that happened, there were fines to be paid to printers and distributors.  So from a business point-of-view, it really was unacceptable.  But I think a vignette told at the end of our last examination that perhaps springboards us to the Shooter era was the death of a Bullpen mainstay just before Shooter became EiC:  John Verpoorten.  The giant of a man who'd been Marvel's dictatorial production manager had died in his apartment, at the young age of 37.  From reading many of the accounts of the '70's Bullpen, it may have been the work that killed him -- the implication is certainly there.  As Shooter took over, he immediately changed the status quo of creators being hounded by the production manager.  Now numerous editors were hired, character duchies were handed over to the editors (a la the ages-old practice seen at DC Comics), and heads rolled.  Henceforth, the editors would direct the company, and not the production manager.  And creators grew angry.

Karen: Howe's recounting of John Verpoorten's death was shocking and depressing. The circumstances were part of it, but his age-37! - just stunned me. From the pictures I had seen of him, I always thought he was a much older man. He comes across as a true casualty of the business end of things. With Shooter's reign, while he might have made "the buses run on time" he also managed to drive away the most creative people and demand a more formulaic approach to comic book stories (story arcs no longer than two issues, the Shooter 'grid', etc.). You're not wrong to say that he took what he learned at DC and applied it to Marvel. And has any other comics figure ever been so reviled? I doubt if even Mort Weisinger was burned in effigy.

Doug:  The pages running from around 200-230 not only deal with creators becoming increasingly disgusted, but begin to discuss the descension (my word) into the business side of Marvel.  We get tons of anecdotes about Stan in Hollywood, licensing deals, toy tie-ins, cartoons in production, ads taken out in Variety "pimping" (Howe's word) Marvel's stable of characters, etc.  But two men stand out among all of this -- Stan Lee and Jack Kirby.  According to Howe, Stan still wielded some influence among the staff and freelancers, and many a'time Howe reveals that this angry creator was placated or that brewing situation was smoothed over by a call from or meeting with Stan.  Jack Kirby left Marvel quite unceremoniously.  For a guy who arguably built the company, it was a sad send-off.  He was not respected, and we're given the impression that he may even have been reviled.  He had developed real animosity toward Stan Lee and Roy Thomas, and found himself soon again working with them -- but not by his choice.  When the Fantastic Four cartoon was set to air in the late '70's, Kirby had found a place as a "concepts guy" and storyboard artist at Hanna-Barbera -- working under scripts written by Stan and/or Roy.  Stan's other claim to fame as the 1970's closed?  Derivative characters.  Worried that the very studios to whom he'd catered Marvel's characters all these years would somehow spin-off similar characters and retain their rights as new creations, Stan ordered up a heaping dose of She-Hulk, Ms. Marvel, and Spider-Woman.  Lee had long derided DC for their stable of Superman and Batman knock-offs, but found this to be a necessary side of the business.

Karen: I thought it was interesting that in a 1979 interview to the New York Times one writer anonymously stated that they thought Lee wanted to be another Walt Disney -branching out beyond comics into other media. That actually makes sense, except for the fact that Stan really didn't have the power. He was just another lackey when it comes down to it, a figurehead more than anything. But certainly his focus left comics and shifted to movies and TV, where it really wasn't successful.

Doug:  As I'm framing this week's concluding review, I've already become conscious that I've been pretty wordy.  I'm not going to lie -- this is a tough post to write!  The text is so anecdotal and thoroughly researched, that breaking out topics without ignoring the labor that Sean Howe put into the production seems a disservice.  But for the sake of space, I think we'd better make a lane change.  So rather than rehashing a bunch of the stories you've either a) already read or b) we're hopefully prompting you to read, I think I'll take this down to some break-outs that we can latch on to -- you're now going to get a series of Open Forum-worthy topics, each of them a day's discussion in their own right!

Doug:  So, here's the first one:  The ascension of the writer-artists, specifically in the persons of Frank Miller and John Byrne (later, Walter Simonson), given carte blanche on their respective books which included the ability to ignore chunks of continuity that had gone before.  Would Jack Kirby, in his third tenure at Marvel, have been the first to have such control?

Doug:  Creator rights.  One of Shooter's first moves as the new EiC was to retool the work-for-hire contracts, specifically stating within that any and all characters or plotlines created would be the sole property of Marvel Comics.  This created a furor among creators and led to a major exodus of talent.  Contrast that response, however, with two thoughts:  Stan Lee had rushed the above-mentioned derivative characters into production to protect Marvel's interests.  He'd co-created almost all of the foundational elements of the Marvel Universe anyway -- and never owned any of them.  And secondly, at this time none other than John Byrne stated on more than one occasion that he was a "company man" through and through and had no interest in any burgeoning guild or union movements.  Yet for Steve Gerber, David Anthony Kraft, Dave Cockrum, and others mentioned in the latter half of the book, there were certainly inherent economic and moral considerations in this line of thinking.

Doug:  Jim Shooter's alleged "Big Bang", whereby the Marvel Universe as we know it would have ceased to exist.  The characters of Thor, Spider-Man, etc. would have returned, but with new secret identities and re-tooled origins.  It was seen as taboo to even think about and was shelved.  Instead, Shooter won approval, and a dreadfully low promotional budget, for what would become known as the "New Universe".  Decades later, both Marvel and DC would be able to pull off new characters in established super-hero identities (John Stewart, James Rhodes, and the "feminization" of established male good guys and bad guys would be examples).

Karen: Although I've read about Shooter's proposed "Big Bang" in a couple of different places, I've never really understood the whys behind it other than what -pure ego? It's not as if all of those characters were doing poorly and needed a reboot. Certainly as the book goes on it portrays Shooter as getting further and further out there in terms of his grip on reality.

Bill Jemas

Doug:  The advent of the mini-series.  Secret Wars began as a toy tie-in (there's that licensing thing again), but spawned an avalanche of possibilities for test-marketing, cross-marketing, X-marketing, and #1's flying around all over the place.  My opinion?  Today's habit of constantly re-numbering titles got it's start in the marketing ploys of the 1980's.

Karen: I believe I can point to Secret Wars as my own personal point at which comics changed for me and started to become less fun. It was such an obvious marketing ploy, such a poor quality product, that it was apparent even then that the business side of things had trumped the creative side. It only got worse as time went on, what with the gimmick covers, the endless number 1 issues, and so on.

Doug:  The maturity of the direct market, where retailers got a voice in what would sell, and how many copies of a given book that they could move.  See previous point.
Doug:  I think that, again as Karen said last week, the overall takeaway of the second half of the book is the business aspect of it.  The truly maddening aspect of that?  The people who owned and ran Marvel Comics didn't read comics, they didn't even like comics.  And they wanted only a return on their investment.  Integrity of product?  Secondary.  Gimmicks?  Bring 'em on!  I was somewhat reminded of a line said in the first half of the story.  One of the creators, feeling handcuffed creatively toward the end of the Bronze Age, had complained that editorial wasn't really interested in the avant garde anymore; rather, they wanted to know "what's it like?"  Egos like that of Bill Jemas brought Marvel down to porn-like levels with his "I'll show you what we can do/sell!" attitude in the creation of his Marville mini-series in 2002.

Karen: I think one of the best examples of how disengaged the business guys were was at one point in the book, when some group buys Marvel and one of the idiots runs around saying, "We just bought Superman!"

Tom DeFalco, c. late 1980's

Doug:  The "Image guys".  Have at it -- both rounds -- the rise, keys to the kingdom, loud departure, and return (given the keys to the kingdom again).  Let's just say that these guys -- particularly Todd McFarlane and Rob Liefeld -- don't come off looking the least bit good.

Karen: I think this little excerpt from an interview with McFarlane after he'd been given the penciling AND writing reigns on Spidey says it all: "Uh...I don't really consider myself a writer, so I don't pay attention to writing. Now I'm sure the people at Marvel won't be too impressed with that statement, but by the time they read it, it'll be too late." Too late, indeed.

Doug:  The ongoing feud between Jack Kirby and Stan Lee.  To the day Kirby died, they never did completely reconcile.  Kirby began to say that he'd created everything by himself, including Spider-Man.  There's an anecdote about Kirby being on a radio show and Stan calling in and confronting Kirby on some of the issues at hand.  It was awkward, and ultimately ended somewhat amicably -- but they never again had anything close to a working relationship or even an "agree to disagree" relationship.  They had basically created Marvel Comics -- but fell far, far apart as the years passed.  So much hurt...

Ronald Perelman

Karen: It truly is tragic and that radio interview transcript was just painful to read. 

Doug:  The X-plosion.  Just... bah.

Doug:  Spending money like they got it -- Fleer, Skybox, ToyBiz, etc.  Good lord, it's no wonder they went bankrupt!  But guys like Ron Perelman, who basically drove the company into the ground, came out smelling like a rose.

Karen: Oh yeah, the Revlon guy. There were so many businessmen in the second half of the book that I could not keep them all straight. I had to constantly flip back to remember who was who. They all basically stunk.

Joe Quesada

Doug:  Wizard magazine, and the power they wielded for a decade in shaping not only the comic book industry, but the back issue market as well with their inflated price guide.  One would be safe in assuming that much of the marketing ploys we reviled in the 1990's were closely tied to the speculator market partially created by Wizard and its competitors.  Remember when Wizard and Previews would polybag their books with preview trading cards?  Ashamed to say I may still have a few of those stashed somewhere downstairs.

Karen: Ugh, Wizard. They might as well have been holding up paychecks from Marvel and DC on their covers.

Doug:  Finally, the Marvel Comics of today, as headed by Joe Quesada.  Constant crossovers, the Ultimate Universe, renumberings, "irreversible" deaths each quarter, reboots, "events"...  But, also the long-awaited presence of Marvel at the cinema and back on the small screen in various animated programs.  Toys we could only dream of when we were kids, and quality reprints of material we thought we'd never again get our mitts on.  Is Marvel today an evil empire, or benevolent toward comic book lovers?

Under Siege: Avengers 274

Avengers #274 (December 1986)

"Divided... We Fall!"

Roger Stern-John Buscema/Tom Palmer

Doug:  We've been promising you a review of this story arc for several months now, and it's finally here!  Again, we really appreciate the participation you all showed during our January time off.  That was much needed for us to recharge and to also get ahead.  We're hoping you'll see a return to the quality we left off with late in 2012.  But before we get rolling on this 4-issue slugfest that will take us through the month of Cupid (how's that for irony?), we need to recap the wholly-necessary Avengers #273, which was a prequel of sorts to the carnage to come.  

Doug:  The issue begins with Hercules in a NYC tavern impressing the locals with his might.  He's been bet by another patron that he cannot hold a table (with a dozen or so patrons on top) aloft for five minutes.  As the clock's about to expire the table breaks and everyone comes tumbling down.  Herc heads over to the bar and chats with his benefactor, who asks some probing questions about the Avengers.  Herc, filling himself with ale, is all-too-forthcoming with information.  The guy begins to goad the Olympian on what it's like taking orders from the Wasp; this ticks Herc off to the point that he tosses the guy clean through the bar's plate glass window out into the path of an approaching semi.  Leaping to his rescue, Herc is then forced to tell the bar's owner that he'll have the Avengers pay for the window, the table, and even the driver's truck.  We then find that the patron was actually the Wrecker, who goes into a truck outside the bar to confer with Yellowjacket (the female villain version).  Switching scenes to an undisclosed location, we find Baron Helmut Zemo conversing with Moonstone (again, the female version).  They are discussing a pending plan of Zemo's, and it's apparent that they are getting all of their ducks in a row.  There's some obvious mistrust between the two, and we later find that Moonstone's project is to control the villain Blackout.  Zemo is very concerned with neutralizing the powers of Captain Marvel (the female version -- sheesh!  I thought this was a double-aughts trend; forgot it was rolling 15 years earlier!), and Blackout's creation of dark fields that dampen energy would seem to be the trick.  Along the way we meet other conspirators:  Mr. Hyde, the rest of the Wrecking Crew, Goliath (formerly Power Man -- the Caucasian version!), Tiger Shark, the Fixer, the Absorbing Man, and Titania.  After an attempt by Moonstone to elicit a coup, Zemo shows that he is indeed in charge and has Blackout envelope Moonstone in the dark stuff.  Once she's in her place, the team commences their plan -- the invasion of Avengers Mansion.  They wage a full-frontal assault on the building and take it in less than seven minutes.  Zemo gloats over his control as he convenes his new Masters of Evil in the Assembly Room, a trussed-up Jarvis at the center of the group.

Doug:  So all of that brings us to today's fare. We lead off with Zemo and the Fixer inside the Mansion, watching the Black Knight march right up the front walk.  Dane's not all together, as he's smarting from a bout with jealousy in the previous issue.  He and Jan had attended a social function together, only to have the hunky mercenary Paladin show up and flirt with the Wasp.  Of course Janet flirted back and Dane fell into all sorts of depression.  So as he approached the Mansion on this day, he wasn't exactly expecting any surprises.  Rather than make any sort of scene in public, the all-new Masters of Evil allow the hero to enter the building; it doesn't take long for him to figure that something is amiss.  Yellowjacket buzzes him, and he gives chase -- right into an ambush by Mr. Hyde.  Hyde is portrayed as brutally merciless in this arc, and he has to be talked down from killing the Knight.  Beaten into submission, Hyde hoists the Avenger over his shoulder and plods off to find Zemo.

Karen: I recall that when the Wasp was initially made leader I was not at all happy about it. I felt she was too flighty, too superficial. But over time, they did a good job having her grow into the role. The Black Knight also got a fair amount of face time and became a much more fully developed character during this time period. Mr. Hyde's sheer brutality is really quite disturbing -even his fellow villain, Yellowjacket, seems uncomfortable with him.

Doug:  I'd been back into the Avengers (and comics in general) for a couple of years at this point.  Roger Stern's Avengers had a different feel to them than the team of Jim Shooter I'd left when I entered high school.  I guess for me, with a sense of newness still about my return, the Wasp's ascension was OK.  Stern seemed to handle it well.

Doug:  In the Assembly room, the Knight, his helmet, and his enchanted sword are presented to Zemo.  A cadre of muscle encircles the meeting table -- Hyde, Goliath, the Wrecking Crew, and Tiger Shark.  Blackout and Moonstone are also in the room.  It's interesting, in light of previous appearances of the various incarnations of the Masters (and other grouped-up do-badders, as in King-Size Avengers #1), to see the raw power of this group.  I'd be hard-pressed to come up with a roster of past Avengers (from this era backward) to match these goons.  Having been worried most about Captain Marvel, Zemo next attacks her.  Using the Wasp's voice, a false summons is sent to Monica.  She of course answers in the speed of a thought, only to be immediately confronted by Blackout.  As Moonstone and Zemo had surmised, the black extra-dimensional power that Blackout wields indeed incapacitates the Captain.  The Avengers are beginning to fall.  Zemo gloats to the tied-up Jarvis, gleefully explaining how they used a voice modulator to mimic the Wasp's voice.  He wonders aloud how easy it will be to lure Captain America and Hercules to their doom.

Karen: I know some people disliked this Captain Marvel, some because of the name, others because they felt she was Stern's pet character being foisted on the readers (shades of Englehart and Mantis), but I always liked her and thought she had a cool powerset that could have made her one of the most powerful Avengers of all. She had a nice run on the book that ended prematurely.  I was never too keen on her costume though. Speaking of costumes, Blackout has to have one of the worst ever. It looks like something Electro would have rejected, and that's saying something.

Doug:  I warmed to Captain Marvel well enough.  It's hard for me to recall if I'd read her first appearance in the Spider-Man annual; I'm thinking that I encountered her in the Avengers first.  Like many ultra-powerful characters, her abilities seemed a bit nebulous to me at first.  But her potential was certainly off the charts. Blackout's threads come courtesy of Carmine Infantino, who was the penciller in Blackout's debut appearance in Nova #19.  Fully agreed on your assessment!

Doug:  We see more tension between our nasties, as the Fixer starts talking trash to Yellowjacket about his design prowess.  She pretty much ends it with a hard wrenching of the Fixer's thumb.  Zemo enters to check on the plans; the Fixer assures him that the Fantastic Four are out of the country, and that the West Coast Avengers have been sent on a false mission.  Zemo gloats (he does a lot of that), but as he does we cut to the domicile of the Winsome Wasp, sunning herself poolside.  Suddenly a shadow comes over her and we see Captain America leap from a military helicopter, only to land on the diving board and execute a dismount only he could pull off.  Cap tells of a recent mission where he battled the Trapster and Whirlwind.  Whirlwind had long been a thorn in the Pyms' sides, so Cap had called the Mansion to report that those two were in custody.  Knowing Jan would especially want to know, Cap was surprised to hear that she... wasn't interested at all.  Feeling that something had gone terribly wrong, Cap hightailed to Jan's private residence to get to the bottom of it.

Karen: I love that multi-figure depiction of Cap doing one of his acrobatic jumps. I recall reading a review of the Avengers film and someone complaining that Cap was a  super-acrobat, like that was something terrible. I for one have always been impressed with heroes making incredible athletic moves. Anyway, it was well-done. 

Doug:  Artists on Daredevil always seemed to employ similar strategies in depicting the Man Without Fear in motion.  At the mansion, the heavies have been told they can loot whatever they want.  Needless to say, they begin to dismantle the personal quarters.  Moonstone is surprised by Thunderball -- we don't know what she'd stumbled upon -- but we do know who was spying on her.  The Wasp had infiltrated the Mansion through its air system and was on patrol.  Flying into the Assembly Room, she found Jarvis.  Untying his mouth, she was told of Zemo and his plan to take out Hercules.  Not having time to rescue Jarvis, she assured him that Hercules would be kept out of the trap.  As if on cue, we switch scenes to the street, where a limousine has dropped off the Lion of Olympus.  Inside the car, as it pulls away, we see a very glamorous escort, talking to someone on the phone about getting paid her fee.  She assures Baron Zemo that Hercules has had enough drugged booze to fell an elephant.  As he staggers around the sidewalk, singing to himself and anyone else who will listen, the Wasp buzzes him to get his attention.  A man calling himself "Stevie" comes along and leads Herc across the street to a van.  Once inside, we find that it was Captain America.  The Avengers tell their fellow of the goings-on inside the Mansion.  Hercules is of course ready to brawl.  When the Wasp tells him that they need a plan, the very-drunk demigod blasts through the side of the van -- recall that last issue the Wrecker had goaded Hercules for taking orders from a female.

Karen: Moonstone, being brighter than most of the villains, seems to be actually searching through drawers and such, while the rest just seem to be smashing everything in sight. Zemo really does have a crew full of muscle-heads. If he'd had Crusher Creel  and Sandman, he would have had a full house. Jarvis is so Jarvis, telling the Wasp to save Hercules rather than himself. Of course Herc is both smashed and too egotistical to listen to Jan. Stern had done a nice job over many months showing Hercules' resentment at taking orders from the Wasp. It's probably harder to grasp now but put in the timeframe of 1986 it's an all-too familiar scenario, as more and more women were attaining positions of authority in the workforce, and many men were uncomfortable with that.

Doug:  Hercules heads straight into the Mansion, leaving Cap and the Wasp no choice but to follow.  Inside, Tiger Shark is the first Master to greet Herc.  Saying that he'd hoped to square off against the Sub-Mariner, Tiger Shark engages Herc nonetheless.  It's a foundation-shaking battle, as the walls give way and the two heavyweights crash even through the floor.  In the monitor room, the Fixer spies Cap and Jan, and alerts Zemo.  Having rigged new defense mechanisms, the Fixer is able to take out Cap and the Wasp before they even get close.  Once down, an mechanical arm comes out of the building and brings Cap inside; the Wasp, on the other hand, is placed out on the sidewalk.  Coming to, she's astonished to see the Mansion encased in a black cube -- the work of Blackout!  Inside the dark shield, Moonstone is astonished at Blackout's power.

Karen: I f Hercules is sober, I don't see Tiger Shark lasting more than a minute. I mean, really. Hercules would punch him into the ozone layer. The blackout power looked neat, but the mansion appeared a bit on the small side.

Doug:  I felt the same way about the battle -- Herc had to be a couple of steps slow.  Back inside the building, Hercules continues to show his mettle.  Fighting Tiger Shark to a standstill, he's piled on by Hyde and the Wrecking Crew.  Encased in a cocoon of machinery and metals, the Son of Zeus nevertheless bursts the bonds, triumphant in the face of his persecutors.  However, Goliath (nee Power Man) enters the fray, and picking Hercules up by one of his ankles proceeds to slam his head and shoulders from side-to-side into the walls.  It's a brutal assault, and Herc is finally dropped into the middle of the rest of the assembled Masters.  They pounce, and pummel.  And pummel.  And pummel.  Outside, Jan tries to breach the black barrier, to no avail.  Inside, Zemo confronts the now-bound Captain America.  In typical Cap fashion, the Star-Spangled Avengers says, "It... doesn't matter... what you do to me!  You haven't beaten the Avengers... not so long as one of us lives!"  Zemo disregards Cap's speech, telling him that he is the only Avenger of consequence left.  The Wasp is free, but was instrumental in capturing the Black Knight and in bringing Hercules into the clutches of his assailants.  And then Cap is told that the Olympian has... expired.  Outside, we see the black encasement bend, and then Hercules is spit out of it onto the sidewalk.  The Wasp rushes to his side and finds... no pulse.

Karen: This was an exciting issue; the stakes really felt high, and built anticipation for next issue. What Avengers would take up the call and come to the aid of their fallen comrades?

Reminiscing on Favorite Comic Strips

Doug:  A few months ago we ran a couple of "Discuss" posts on Calvin & Hobbes and on The Far Side.  At the time, david_b commented to me that I'd recall the "Green Sheet" from the pages of the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel -- I lived in Milwaukee from the summer of 1972 to the spring of 1976.  I did indeed recall that, and reflected at the time on some of the comic strips I followed way back when.  I thought at the time that we need to run a more general post on newspaper comic strips -- here it is.

Doug:  A couple of strips I followed when I was a kid were Alley Oop, about a bunch of cavemen and -women (forgive me, as I can't recall the larger premise of the strip), the Born Loser, and Hagar the Horrible.  Over the succeeding years I dabbled from time-to-time in the Spidey strip, Hi & Lois, the Family Circle, Ziggy, Mr. Boffo, of course Peanuts, Shoe, Blondie, and many, many others.  I always wanted to get into the Phantom and Prince Valiant, but with both being serialized it was difficult for me to do.

Doug:  So what are some favorite strips for our readers?  Are there some that even to this day you follow?  Do you have any web-based strips that you'd recommend, or perhaps websites that are repositories of old strips?  Thanks for playing along!

That Zany Bob Haney: The Brave and the Bold 81

The Brave and the Bold #81 (December/January 1968)
"But Bork Can Hurt You!"
Bob Haney-Neal Adams/Vince Colletta/Dick Giordano

Doug: Bob Haney's been on ice around the Bronze Age Babies; in fact, the last post in this series was way back on September 7 2012!  For those of you who favor your DCs, you have my apologies!  I also noticed that we really haven't ever featured the Flash on this blog.  Remedied today.  Lastly, some housekeeping -- those of you who've followed this series may recall that when Haney's collaborator has been Neal Adams, I've used as my resource the hardcover collection, Batman Illustrated by Neal Adams.  Today's story comes from the first volume, and as you'll also recall features the story newly recolored by Adams.  We've said before that the effort is somewhat Lucasian.  So, let's tarry no longer then...

Doug: To say this story starts off full-on zany would be an understatement!  We open dockside in Gotham City, as a tough named Carl Bork is kicked off a boat for allegedly trying to steal while on it.  Wandering away, he doesn't see a tractor trailer bearing down on him and is run over -- literally.  However, instead of becoming a stain on the pavement, we find that Bork (now referring to himself in the third person) is not only alive, but unharmed -- and apparently invulnerable!  Entering a nearby "greasy spoon", Bork robs the cash register while the proprietor howls for the police.  Soon a patrolman arrives, and orders Bork to halt.  Unheeded, the cop immediately resorts to police brutality and shoots Bork in the back of the leg (there was never any pursuit, no billy club drawn, no warning shot -- just a bullet to the leg.  Sheesh...).  Bork seems unphased, so takes another bullet, and another.  Now feeling that's he's somehow become godlike, Bork thinks to himself how the world is going to pay, and pay hard!

Doug:  While at the GCPD, Barry Allen is visiting from Central City (o', how I wish DC had chosen long ago to set their stories in the "real world") and is being shown the facility by the Batman.  Once in Commissioner Gordon's office, the two heroes become privy to a bulletin over the police band -- "rumble" on the docks.  Now that's some police talk!  Batman urges Gordon to give Allen a lift, while the Dark Knight takes to the skies.  Once at the docks, Batman sees Milo Manning (underworld labor goon and extortionist) squaring off against Carl Bork.  It gets physical right away, and Bork takes clubs and boards to his head, as well as destroys a forklift.  Manning's tossed into the drink and all of the thugs quickly come to the realization that there's a new boss in Gotham.  That's when the Batman descends, and places Bork under arrest.  The fight is brief, as Bork takes anything the Caped Crusader dishes out, and delivers it back tenfold.  An unconscious Batman is tossed in the direction of the now arrived Gordon and Allen.  Gordon's men swarm toward the ganglanders, but Bork's men are now inspired and take them on directly.  It isn't but minutes 'til Gordon orders a retreat.  It looks like Carl Bork is on the verge of running Gotham City.

Doug:  Mere hours later, the underworld has rallied around Bork.  The mayor isn't happy, as City Hall has received word that Bork is ordering a city-wide riot within 24 hours if his demands aren't met.  Gordon tries to placate his boss, but this isn't looking good.  A bruised and battered Batman excuses himself from the conversation, and we see he and Barry Allen in another room.  Allen activates his ring, and is soon dressed for action as the Flash.  His mission: to track the whereabouts of Carl Bork over the past few years.  Literally running around the world, the Flash makes stops everywhere he could find police information on Bork.  Meeting a national president in Africa, the Flash learns that a commando team has been dispatched to Gotham to bring in Bork.  Racing back to Gotham, the Flash informs the Batman of this new twist.  And I have to tell you -- Bob Haney does in eight panels enough nicknaming to put Smilin' Stan Lee to shame!  On a page and a third, Barry Allen is referred to as the "Scarlet Speedster", the "Wizard of Whiz", the "Sultan of Zoom", the "Super Leg Man", and the "Monarch of Motion".  Whew!  Now that's zany...

Doug:  The African commandos, armed with assault rifles, find Bork.  Bork goads them into attacking, and it's soon known what everyone else has discovered (and Haney has repeated numerous times -- "you can't hurt Bork, but Bork can hurt you!").  Batman arrives in time to separate the combatants, and they scatter.  We check back on the Flash, who is in the second stage of his fact-gathering.  Aboard a merchant vessel, our hero is told how Bork was once picked up from Desolation Island, where the natives had made a totem of him.  The captain tells that the longstanding rumor is that those totems possessed supernatural powers.  Flash covers the millennium of miles in seconds, only to discover the natives evacuating -- a volcano is about to blow on the island!  Racing up the mountain to the totem, the Flash is caught in the explosion.  He, the statue, and a whole lot of rock and lava are hurled out into the sea.  The totem drifts away as Flash clings partially-conscious to some driftwood.

Doug:  Things are heating up in Gotham, as the city council is coming apart at the prospect of Bork running the town.  Batman is implored to solve this; indeed, he may be part of the larger problem, since Bork has ordered the Batman to leave Gotham City.  We cut away to the Flash, now awake and back to work, searching the sea for the drifting totem.  It's no luck, as we see a wayward sailor has found it and spirited it away, not knowing of its significance.  Back in Gotham, Bork has allowed himself to be arrested (we're not told how or why) and is thrown in the city lock-up by Batman himself.  Batman taunts Bork, telling him that while his invulnerability protects him, he doesn't possess any super-strength to break out.  Wrong.  Because Bork is invulnerable, he constantly pounds on the concrete wall until it gives.  Now it's known that not even a jail cell can contain Carl Bork.

Doug:  Back to the sea, a storm has come up and tossed the small craft of the sailor harboring the Bork carving.  Finally flung back into the water, it's soon found by the Flash.  Carrying it to the nearest island, the Flash attempts to destroy it by smashing it against rock.  No dice.  So, feeling this is definitely a case of "more than meets the eye", the Flash hustles the totem to his lab in Central City.  Unable to damage it with chemicals, the Flash discovers that there are some unknown minerals coating it -- Bork's invulnerability may never be cracked!  In Gotham, Gordon and Bork argue against Bork's demands, the good guys attempting to buy time for the Flash to figure this out.  Some among Gotham City's leadership say Bork's demands should actually be considered; Batman says to continue to stall.

Doug:  The Flash, at the end of hope, attempts to destroy the totem through friction.  Attaching it to a harness, the Flash begins to tow it behind him, as fast as he can run.  Eventually the Flash breaks the timestream, and then on into another dimension.  Nothing.  Nearly defeated, Flash takes the statue back to his lab and subjects it to the one thing he'd not previously tried: lasers.  Sure enough, a spot begins to materialize on the totem's hand.  As the laser heats up, its generator overheats and explodes.  Flash vibrates his molecules to allow any harmful particles to pass through him.  Back in Gotham, the African hit squad has again tracked down Bork.  Figuring that modern weapons of warfare were useless, they turn now to more traditional methods -- blowguns and darts!  With Bork in range, they attack, striking Bork in the hand -- and it affects him!  Batman, on the scene, orders Gordon to call off his men.  Gotham's champion will take on Bork alone, with the winner getting his way.

Doug:  And then... things turn zanier yet.  The Flash, realizing that the power of light and radiation caused a chink in Bork's armor, grabs the totem once again and begins towing it -- right into the sun!  No transuit, no protective aura, nothing.  Just running.  Into the sun.  And while I can suspend my disbelief enough to think the Flash could run on water, I'm having just a bit more of a tough time sensing that he can run vertically on air, and then reach escape velocity, and then run in the vacuum of space... you get my drift.  Well, anyway, the Flash is able to reach the sun and hurl the totem into it -- no more totem.  And, using passing asteroids for balance and pushing off (I'm not making this up -- Haney made this up), the Flash is able to reverse his own course and return to Earth.  Back on terra firma, the Batman metes out punishment to the now de-powered Carl Bork.  It's a pretty short fight, as you might imagine.  In the end, the Africans are allowed to extradite Bork to face justice in their own nation.  Gotham City has been rid of its latest menace!

Doug:  So that's the plot summary -- how about the review?  I thought Haney did a poor job of melding the ending to the beginning.  When we first met Carl Bork he was being kicked off a steamer ship.  He gets waylaid by the truck, and gets up wondering why he isn't dead.  So obviously he doesn't know of his invulnerability.  Yet, later when Flash is on his mission he encounters a ship's captain who informs him about the island, the totem, the supernatural, etc.  Is this the same captain we saw in the beginning (he doesn't look the same)?  How long has Bork been off or away from that island?  Did he not have powers while there?  Why did the natives make the totem of him in the first place?  Why would he have been considered "worship worthy"?  So while it's a goofy story anyway, those are a couple of issues that should have been more clear -- or maybe I'm just dense and un-zany myself.

Doug:  Additionally, I want to throw a kudo to Adams' pencils.  They are ever-dynamic, and I guess I'm going to take a commenter or two to task.  It seems that each time we run a post with Adams' art, we get an anonymous drive-by commenter who wants to heap garbage on Neal Adams.  I won't sit here at the keyboard and say he's the greatest comic book artist of all time, but he's in that top 5 somewhere.  The complaints I usually read from this critic (whoever he or she may be) is that the figures don't look like they're talking to each other, the panels don't flow one into the other as a means to move the story, etc.  I-simply-do-not-see-that.  None of those criticisms are valid.  I suppose the only way to truly hash it out is to sit down side-by-side and go through a story together; obviously, that's not going to happen.  So if you're reading this, o' Anonymous Adams-hater, please first use a handle so there's a sense of community in your comment, and then get specific about your criticisms.  Personally, I think the proof's in the panel samples provided today.

BAB Book Review: Marvel Comics - The Untold Story, part one

 

Marvel Comics: The Untold Story

Sean Howe

Harper, (c) 2012

Karen: First thing: Hi. We're back. After our semi-vacation, it seemed like a good idea to get back in the saddle with a review of this book, which has been the talk of the comics blogosphere for a few months now. I read it back in November (although I've done some flipping back through it to refresh my memory), and Doug read it over the Christmas holiday. I know several of you were also reading it the last couple of months. So it's probably time to discuss it now. We're going to split our review into two parts; this first part will cover the events prior to Jim Shooter becoming editor in chief, and the second part will cover Shooter's reign and after.  

Doug:  For those of you who've not read this book, I'd strongly recommend it.  It's an easy read, very accessible.  It's a big one at 400 pages, but it really breezed by for me.  

Karen: The book is well-written and Howe does an excellent job of providing attributions for all his quotes, something often sadly lacking in other comics-related books. While I was reading it, I couldn't put it down. However, after finishing the book, my foremost takeaway is that sometimes it's best not to know what's going on behind the scenes. It's that old adage about the sausage-making. Now admittedly I had heard many of the stories recounted here already. But there were a fair number of new accounts I hadn't heard, and all in all, I walk away from this perhaps a little sadder than before. 

Stan "The Man" Lee, 1960's

Doug:  I'll jump right on the citations bandwagon.  While Howe doesn't provide direct footnotes or references for many of his quotes, most are attributed as Karen said, and there are lengthy notes and resource sections at the conclusion of the book.  What was so painfully lacking in Ronin Ro's Tales to Astonish is fully on display here in Howe's book.  I'll also agree with Karen's assessment of this book sometimes bursting bubbles.  I think we've all known for quite some time that the Marvel Bullpen was a complete fabrication created by Stan to draw in readers and turn them into fans.  Many of the anecdotes that Howe relates show the Marvel offices to be small in space and staff, with freelancers happening by every so often.  While I've heard that there is some truth to the story conferences held between Stan and his artists, as seen in Daredevil Annual #1 for example, the image that many of us have of Stan leaping about on his desk and on coffee tables was much more the exception than the norm.  And while Karen mentions feeling sad after reading the book, I'll add that I agree with her assessment through the half of the book that we're covering today; but by the time I'd gotten through the current state of affairs at Marvel (the latter part of the book) I had a bit of a sense of depression.

Jack "King" Kirby, 1980's

Karen: The second half really hammers home that comics is a business. Howe's history is  quite complete, and while I found it somewhat interesting to learn about publisher Martin Goodman's past and the events that would lead to the birth of Marvel Comics, what I really wanted to read about were the things that happened from the creation of the Fantastic Four on, and this is the meat of the book. From Howe's descriptions of the situation at Marvel, I got the impression that there were problems between Stan Lee and his artists almost from the very start. I can't help but wonder if much of the frustration the artists seemed to feel stemmed from working in the 'Marvel Method', where the artists supplied much of the plot for an issue. In some cases, particularly with Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko, the artists frequently came up with nearly all of the story, with Lee chiefly coming in afterwards to write captions and dialog. Of course, the Marvel Method evolved because Lee was the only writer on staff at the beginning. It would have been impossible for the man to provide full scripts for every book they were producing at the time. But it's easy to see how it would have bred ill-feeling. Of course, as Marvel grew popular, Lee also became adept at self-promotion, and this didn't help matters.

Doug:  As far as the Martin Goodman stuff goes (and I'll go further to add the relationships between Joe Simon and Jack Kirby to Stan Lee), I think any of the Marvel histories (Ro's, Les Daniels' Marvel:  Five Fabulous Decades of the World's Greatest Comics), and the Stan Lee biographies by George Mair (Excelsior!  The Amazing Life of Stan Lee), and Jordan Raphael and Tom Spurgeon (Stan Lee and the Rise and Fall of the American Comic Book) do an equal job of detailing Timely Comics' Golden Age and metamorphosis into Atlas Comics -- and the demise of the industry post-Wertham.  

Steve Ditko, 1960's

Doug:  Concerning the "Marvel Method":  If there's one takeaway from this book, it may be the body count of bruised egos left strewn along the pages we've all cherished.  Let me offer this:  even once comics moved into the 1980's and creators with total control became more common, the term used to describe them is "writer/artist".  There seemed to be two really big issues for a lot of the pencilers.  One, that Stan Lee got top billing as the writer and as Karen said increasingly began to take all of the credit (much of which can be attributed to "silence is acceptance"; Stan had ample opportunity in many interviews to set the record straight on all of his co-creations and often chose not to do that).  The second major thorn-in-the-side was the lack of creator control, credits, or royalties for characters created.  I have to play devil's advocate here to some extent, and we can use the Superman legal suits as a case study:  By the time Kirby and Ditko were firing on all cylinders, Superman had been in movie serials, cartoons, radio programs, the George Reeves television series, and countless incarnations as toys, coloring books, etc.  That Kirby and Ditko wouldn't have had any knowledge of a) the empire that Superman had become or b) the fact that Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster were working stiffs just like them, having sold the Man of Steel and all rights for a song is simply ludicrous.  They knew what work-for-hire was, and regardless of the moral shortcomings of the policy those were the rules they were playing under in those days.  Do I personally think it would have been a better, happier, story if Siegel & Schuster and Simon & Kirby, et al. had received a fair cut of the profits from the intellectual properties they'd created?  Duh -- of course I do!  But I still say that what gets lost in these tales is the fact that we're dealing with grown men who were trying to pay for their families' expenses -- they had somewhat unique talents and were compensated only at a going rate for those talents.  No one likes to be unemployed, and certainly wouldn't have wanted to have been blackballed for standing on principle. So they took what Marvel Comics offered and soldiered on -- knowing full well that everything they created was instantly the copyright and/or trademark of someone other than themselves.

Roy Thomas, early 1970's

Karen: Although Lee gets a lot of flak for his self-aggrandizement, and sometimes deservedly so, I often wonder if Marvel would ever have become as popular as it did without Lee there as the face of the company? I mean, you can't think about Marvel, at least Marvel of the 60s, without thinking of Lee. It's simply not possible. He represents that company and those characters in a way that no one at DC does. And yes,even though the whole idea of one big, happy bullpen was a fiction, that, and Lee's personal style, created a sense of camaraderie that drew fans in. The creators' rights issues are always tough. Certainly, if they were unhappy, they could have gone into another area of work, such as commercial art. As you say, they knew what they were signing. Although no one had a crystal ball -despite the enormous success of Superman, no one could be blamed for not foreseeing the eventual success of the Marvel characters. I do feel that later on though, there was not enough effort made to pay many of these people back for the enormous contributions they made to the company. The whole fiasco over returning Kirby's artwork is just appalling.

Doug:  Howe reported that many of the artists at Stan's disposal as Marvel was re-energizing in the early 1960's really eschewed the Marvel Method.  Stan went looking for artists who had been writers to help ease the creative blocks some of the guys were faced with when given the freedom to plot and pace on their own.  I thought this anecdote further elevated Kirby and Ditko as forces of nature at early Marvel, and perhaps served to inflate their egos (maybe even justifiably so). And the episode you mention about Kirby's original art?  That's one of the accounts in the book that both saddened and maddened me.

Gerry Conway, c. 1973

Karen: Over time it has become more obvious, at least to me, what those two contributed to the comics they worked on. There's no denying the creative genius of the guys. But again, it's all a synthesis. Without Lee's dialog and characterization, indeed, humanizing of the super-heroes, would the books have been successful? So they deserve respect, and more credit than they typically get, certainly. It does bother me when I hear people talk about the Marvel films and ascribe all the characters to Lee, for example.

Doug:  Did you notice that Howe stuck in an editorial comment here and there?  One I recall specifically was his line, "The concept for the new Daredevil was not remarkable".  Personally, I thought Daredevil as a concept was pretty unique and enjoyed many issues of the title through the years (yes, yes, I know there were some definite lulls along the way). 

Karen: I don't mind a few editorial remarks -the writer has to have a bit of a voice-and in this case, I tend to agree with him! I don't think Howe went overboard though. For that, you'd have to see the Marvel Comics in the 1970s tome by Pierre Comtois. 

Doug:  Yes, I have both of the Comtois volumes (available from TwoMorrows), and to be honest you scared me away from reading them. For the most part you and I see eye-to-eye, and I didn't feel like taking the punishment.  One of these days I probably will, and we can do another BAB Book Review for our readers' benefits.

Karen: I certainly didn't mean to drive you away from those books, but the second one in particular was a frustrating read. But you should judge for yourself. But back in the bullpen, Lee was bringing in other writers, like Gary Friedrich and notably Roy Thomas.  But the writers were trying to emulate Lee, just as the artists had been told to emulate Kirby. I was surprised to hear that even in the late 60s, Thomas had decided to not truly invest himself in creating new characters, as he could never actually own them or make a profit from them. More writers, like Gerry Conway, came aboard, but the period around 1968-1970 seems like a bit of a rut, as Kirby was pulling back, Lee was starting to move on to other things, and the new guys were trying to find their way, all the while trying to maintain the status quo. It was only with  the arrival of an influx of new blood that Marvel really began to experiment and flower again.

Doug:  One of the interesting habits Howe exhibited in the book was informing the reader of the ages of many of the creators discussed.  I think most of our readers know that Stan Lee and Gerry Conway both started with Marvel when they were 19-year olds, but I didn't know just how young several other pros were.  One has to wonder if the immaturity brought on by a lack of life and/or work experiences may have contributed a bit to the discord that seemed to dominate the freelancers and editorial staff in the 1970's.  Personally, I don't think Jack Kirby ever got past the fact that Stan had begun as an office boy.  Late in the book (and we'll address this in greater detail next Tuesday when we conclude our discussion of this history), Kirby repeatedly refers to Lee as "Stanley".  While that's obviously his real name, it seemed condescending.

Karen: It was definitely condescending, and I think you're right, he always looked down upon Lee. The same with Roy Thomas ('Houseroy').

Len Wein, 1970's

Doug:  It's interesting that you say the 1968-1970 period was a bit of a rut, as that was sort of Marvel's explosion.  Once freed from the terrible distribution deal Marvel had had with DC, where the Marvel books were limited to only a handful a month, the House of Ideas exploded.  The Silver Surfer, Cap, Iron Man, Subby, and the Hulk all went solo that year -- and really, the creative teams were solid.  But I think I understand what you mean.  The best days of the Fantastic Four were dwindling rapidly as '68 gave way to '69, and for my money the Surfer's book would begin to play like a broken record pretty quickly.  The X-Men was about to be cancelled, and Daredevil was middling.  So yeah, perhaps the expansion was only an illusion.  We can certainly draw a line between the twilight of the Silver Age and the coming Bronze Age.

Karen: I think it was a rut if you look at the mainstream titles. There was just no real movement, no real excitement, in some of the bigger titles, like the FF. I think Marvel was transitioning. People had to find their own voice, their own style, and move away from just staying with the same old thing.

Steve Englehart, c. 1982

Karen: Howe depicts the early to mid 70s at Marvel as both exciting and chaotic, a sort of the 'inmates running the asylum' scene.I was not surprised by the amount of drug use by certain artists and writers, as I had heard about this before. What was more interesting to read about was how there were divisions among the second generation of talent, with people like Conway, Len Wein, and Marv Wolfman falling into the more mainstream camp, and Steve Englehart, Jim Starlin, Steve Gerber and others falling into the more counter-culture group. Also, the constant struggle by some for the editor in chief hat was something I'd only heard mention of before, but here, Howe lays it out in detail. Most of the 'mainstream' guys were all, at one time or another, editor in chief, no matter how brief. After Roy Thomas' hands-off policy, all of the EIC's to follow tried to be more involved, but wrangling the free spirits at Marvel proved to be a daunting task. Ultimately Jim Shooter would be the one to impose order over the Marvel staff, but some might ask at what cost?

Doug:  The period leading up to our personal halfway mark was just one big dysfunctional mess.  Again, as I said above, I think the fact that many of these guys were young 20-somethings had quite a bit to do with it -- none of these newer guys had much if any college (I am, in some cases, making assumptions), nor any real-world work experience.  Suddenly thrust into positions of either authority or as care-takers of the creations of their boyhood idols, these young Turks didn't always handle it (or themselves) well.  You're exactly right about the EiC merry-go-round.  We could probably sum it up just by mentioning that Conway held the position for less than a month before resigning.  And before he'd taken it, Thomas had been offered it for a second time, and had turned it down.

Karen: Despite the utter chaos behind the scenes, I still feel that the period of 1972 to about 1976 produced some of the very best material to come out of Marvel. All that freedom was certainly a double-edged sword, but without Thomas letting guys like Englehart and Starlin cut loose, we might never have had the Celestial Madonna, or Thanos getting the Cosmic Cube, or the Secret Empire saga, and so many other great stories and characters. 

Doug:  Another bit of luster that was lost for me was the manner in which economics drove seemingly every decision, personnel-wise and creatively.  I'm not so naive as to fail to grasp that Marvel Comics was an enterprise in itself, and even more so a small piece of a larger company.  But to hear some of the creators tell how they were encouraged to do this, or do that, often with not a thought toward cogent storylines was disheartening.  I'll tell you, there are a lot of books that we've enjoyed sharing together on the BAB through the years that may have more of a backstory than I ever cared to know.  Some of the scripting had teeth in it, and other times the ways and angles stories moved weren't necessarily organic.  This is probably my takeaway from the first part of the book; that, and the way Kirby was perceived and treated upon his "The King is Back!" third stint for the company in the mid-'70's.  I felt blue...