Doug: Now we're getting down to business. I thought it was nice in the latter half of the second round to see three races finish very tightly -- there is anticipation building for some of the match-ups yet to come. I have a couple of questions to pose today. I've attached updated brackets below, and unless you have the crazy things memorized by now, you'll need to consult them in order to answer.
Doug: Here's the first -- as with any tournament, and particularly this one which was set up on somewhat of a blind draw, there can be teams lose "unjustly". By that I mean, and am asking you now -- has there been any event that you feel should have moved on? Is there something important that got left behind solely because it had the misfortune of going against a juggernaut early? A few of our British commenters cited the merits of 2000 AD, for example.
Doug: And here's the second question -- now that we're in the so-called "Sweet Sixteen", is it an appropriate dance card? That is, if you had to name the top 10 or 12 events of the Bronze Age off the top of your head, are they all here?
Doug: And what the heck -- how about one more query? Does anyone want to make any predictions? There are some great match-ups, so let's hear your prognostications!
GL/GA by Adams and O'Neil should be higher, for breaking new ground in storytelling. Someone in 1940 could imagine a character like Wolverine, but they'd be blown away by the story and art of GL/GA.
ReplyDeleteThis is the first time in these polls that I actually had to sit and think about one of the choices before voting. To wit: GS X-men #1/Conan license. Both are incredibly significant, in fact much more than many of the others; the new X-men would go on to become Marvel's hottest property and eventually spill over into other media and inspire emulators both at Marvel and other companies. Meanwhile, Conan marked the beginning of Marvel's many licensing ventures, including Star Wars, which - as we now know - at one point actually saved Marvel from going under in the late '70s (I'm not going to say which one I voted for...)
ReplyDeleteSorry, "Anonymous" up there is me...
ReplyDeleteI agree with Garett on GL/GA by Adams and O'Neil, though this is a fairly Marvel-centric site, so it's not shicking that Gwen Stacy is winning. That's a pretty big deal, to, but it should be closer than 16-8.
ReplyDeleteI've also voted for Wolverine over Frank Miller's DD. The former seems more significant to me than the latter, though they're both pretty big deals.
I voted for Miller's DD over Wolvie because I honestly think that the general milieu that Miller created made Wolverine as we think of him possible. He really did just start out as a grumpy little shrimp with a cool visual gimmick. Wolverine as we know him came a lot later, and I think that Miller kicked the door in in that regard.
ReplyDeleteI asked about match-ups, events getting left behind, etc. in the post. I'm looking at Tomb of Dracula potentially moving on for the third time and I'm wondering if that is simply luck of the draw, or was that series really that influential? That it is perhaps going to end up in the final 8 gives me pause. Anyone else?
ReplyDeleteDoug
Hey guys it's not GL/GA its Batman.
ReplyDeleteGL/GA already lost.
I'm I wrong?
Hey Ram, Doug asked if there are any events which we think should've made it past the early rounds, so I picked GL/GA.
ReplyDeleteI do like O'Neil/Adams Batman too.
Also for the events that should be in the list--the independent companies of the early '80s like Pacific and First had a big impact. Jon Sable, American Flagg, Rocketeer, etc--some were on a par or better than what the big 2 were putting out. Is the Bronze age 1970-85? These companies deserve to be in the overall list as much as Atlas.
ReplyDeleteI'd also like to put in the rise of writer/artists in the bronze age, although it's not specifically an "event". Kirby, Byrne, Starlin, Grell, Miller, Stevens, Chaykin...great time for comics produced mainly by one guy!
ohh ok sorry!
ReplyDeleteI agree with you anyway I said in a previous post that GL/GA should be in the top 3!
Doug, I think Tomb of Dracula advancing so far is simply luck of the draw. Of course, I say this as a superhero comics first kind of guy. Harvey Pekar's American Splendor is pretty weak competition, and I daresay Elfquest doesn't register with many visitors to this site, including me. Still I'm a little surprised that it's beating Superman vs. Spider-Man (though I don't think Supes vs. Spidey had much long term impact, anyway) so maybe there's something there. It's too bad there couldn't have been a seeding system, but I have no idea how you'd seed these events.
ReplyDeleteHi Doug – ref. Dracula, it is excellent, but not as influential as this result would make you think, HOWEVER the reason I keep voting for it is because, in this pole, it’s carrying the torch for itself, Frankenstein Monster, Supernatural Thrillers, Son of Satan, Morbius, Man Wolf, Werewolf by Night and all those 70’s monster strips. To me, those are a real hallmark of the Bronze Age....I mean a really unique & time-bounded hallmark. Xmen, Avengers, DD, Thor, Cap....you could be in any decade. Mention Werewolf By Night and I can feel my trouser bottoms expanding.
ReplyDeleteRef. Stuff that’s not here – I’d mention the Kree /Skrull war, for 2 reasons. Firstly, it was the first of those massive story arcs and was a TPB waiting to happen and secondly because it joined up the Marvel Universe all the way from FF2 to the present day and then went back for the Golden Age heroes as well. All that stuff Englehart and others did later in the Bronze Age, pulling the whole history of Marvel into one cohesive universe, starts with the Kree/Skrull war.
Hi ChrisPV – I agree totally. Actually, I think that both Miller’s DD and Wolverine have all their significance in the 80’s not the 70’s, but I think your comments about Miller setting the stage for a darker world are very astute & well-observed.
Richard
Excellent, Ram, well I agree with you! Maybe there should be a Best of Neal Adams vote! :)
ReplyDeleteRe: Things Not on the Bracket
ReplyDeleteI wonder- could the explosion of Comic Book Conventions be considered a Bronze Age event? That period, 1970 to 1985, is really when they went from being uber-geeky, little fringe gatherings to becoming major events. By '85 I believe they were right on the cusp of being considered legitimately mainstream, and not an embarrassment to the families of those that attended. . .
HB
Oh, and I enthusiastically second Richard's perspective on Tomb of Dracula. I kid you not, I was about to post almost the identical thought just as I saw that you had beaten me to the tape-! The "Monster Craze", I believe, is how it was lovingly refered to in later years. Werewolf by Night was my particular favorite, even through a long, late stretch of very poor art.
ReplyDeleteThe black & white books, though, were also largely a part of this craze-- but they were such a short-lived phenomenon for the most part (was it even a year for the monster-themed ones from Marvel?) that it would be hard for them to carry the torch for the whole genre.
Tales of the Zombie (Simon Garth); Vampire Tales (Morbius); Monsters Unleashed (Frankenstein's Monster, I think, in a wildly meandering plot line); Dracula Lives (Lilith, was it? And her old man?)-- there were a heck of a lot of stories being told that. . . never saw an ending-! Sort of like when Gilligan's Island was first cancelled. . .
HB (always a major tangent-risk. . .beware!)