Doug: The brackets are posted below, and the first round of voting is located over on the left side of this page. Beginning today (well, last night actually) and running through Wednesday evening, you can vote in 16 Bronze Age match-ups. We'll be back in a week with 16 more, on the other half of the bracket, which will conclude Round One.
Doug: For the purposes of this exercise, there was no seeding -- stories were entered onto the bracket in a somewhat randomly alphabetically sequential order, if that makes any sense. Consequently, you may find some curious battles -- at times you'll cry "no contest!"; at others you'll be disappointed because you'll find two marquee tales facing off in the early rounds. That's the way the cookie crumbles, as they say. The entire bracket is below (I have no way to attach an Excel spreadsheet -- I saved the image as a .jpg and tried to make it large enough to read once you make the jump); as I said above our first go at it is just on the left side of the 64-team bracket; we'll tackle the right side next weekend.
Doug: In addition to moderator-bashing, today's comments section could be filled with "the ones that got away". Last week several of you said there were stories and storylines you wished you'd nominated. Well, now would be a good time to name all of our oversights! And as always, thanks for your participation!
Have I mentioned how much fun I find these to be? Because I think they're a great time.
ReplyDeleteOh daggone it! Found myself in the unfortunate position of having to vote against my own submissions in a couple of instances--
ReplyDeleteO the curs'd whims of an uncaring Fate-!
HB
Definitely some tough calls to make. Avengers/Defenders vs. GL/GA? I could easily go either way there...
ReplyDeleteEh, it's alright.. I'd prefer straight topic discussions, since most of this type of favoritism rating is purely subjective anyways..
ReplyDelete(As is most discussion, yes, I know.. But I tend to get more out of topics, learning things I didn't already know.)
I love stuff like this, but the matchups are unfortunate for me, to say the least. Some of my absolute favorites are going head to head right off the bat. At the same time, there are some matchups pairing stories I don't care all that much about. Matchups #3, 6, 12, 15,and 16 were really tough to vote for. I can't believe Howard the Duck has 7 votes against the Korvac Saga.
ReplyDeleteUgh...my all time favorite Legion story, Earthwar, up against my all time favorite comic story, Kree-Skrull War!! This hurts my soul!!
ReplyDeleteI think we're off to a great start. I hope to get around 100 votes on each poll by the time this finishes up mid-week. So far, as I type this, 9 of the 16 polls are neck-and-neck.
ReplyDeleteAs to david_b's comment about the subjectivity of it all, isn't that how any vote goes? What we need to do is give some explanations in this section of today's post as to why we voted the way we did. Karen and HB have already done so, and dbutler and Redartz have hinted at a little frustration along the way as well.
When I set up the brackets, I just went alphabetically through the top 8 slots on the left side of the bracket, and continued through the right side. But, when I started to come back up, I began at the bottom of our list, and did not go on the same bracket as I'd left off. So the whole thing ends up somewhat sequential, yet random as the stories were presented alphabetically. I, too, wish there was some way to seed all of this, but I have no idea how we'd do it in this forum, nor how long it would take. So this is just for fun, and I hope people take it that way. Let's face it -- all of us are being forced to vote for or against some stories we've not read.
In fact, I made a point two days ago to sit down and read "Red Nails", as I'd not ever even seen it. I have it in my Essential Savage Sword tpbs. Let me say -- it truly is Barry Smith's masterpiece. What a great looking story. Have some of you said in the past that there is a color version? Was it in one of the Treasury Editions? I'd like to see that, although it plays great in B&W. I plan to review it, but don't want to slot it into our schedule during this poll -- don't want to be seen as unduly influencing any of these "races".
Hopefully the comments keep flowing, and the votes keep coming in. We'll be on the right side of the bracket next Sunday, and follow each week with a new round once we get this massive beginning out of the way.
Have a great day, everyone!
Doug
Karen, EarthWar is also my all time favorite Legion story! It was really tough to vote on that one, too. Kree/Skrull War is an all time classic, but I voted for EarthWar. Partly because this is such a Marvel-centric site that I knew DC would need some help. Also, however, because as good as the Kree/Skrull War is, the ending is a bit of a letdown, and I also could have done without that revolving art team, though the art was great. Plus, I'll take the Korvac Saga as my representative Avengers story (not that we're limited to one, of course). No surprise to see that EarthWar is getting crushed, though.
ReplyDeleteI know it's all in good fun, but I have to join a few of the others and rant about some of my picks being pitted against each other. I was particularly miffed at having to choose between Panther's Rage and the FF Negative Zone story right off the bat.
ReplyDeleteAnd I can see after inspecting the next bracket that there's going to be a few more tough choices.
Also, I think I found a mistake in the next bracket, which I think should be changed if it's not too late: you have the Captain America vs. Baron Blood story (from issues #253-254) and also the entirety of Captain America's "War & Remembrance" (issues #247-255), which includes the Baron Blood story. I think the latter should be removed and substituted with something else, because it is, after all, a run, NOT a single story.
Edo --
ReplyDeleteThanks for proofreading! I thought there was one other place that sort of overlapping may have occurred. But at any rate, I'll make the change.
I am going to substitute a suggestion from Vancouver Mark and keep it in Cap's title: Captain America #'s 153-57 (the other Cap and Bucky. Englehart and Buscema -- can you go wrong?
Also, I understand everyone's pain about the brackets, but again -- I don't know any way to make it "fair" to the "better" stories. I guess we can ask ourselves -- if my favorite wins this week, would it next time? I mean, if Kree/Skrull is going to trounce you now, it's probably gonna get you later, too. I don't know...
Doug
Is anyone else surprised that Crisis is not just smoking the Serpent Crown Affair? I am.
ReplyDeleteDoug
I'm not. That was one vote that I did not agonize over for a second: Crisis may have been momentous, earth-shattering, etc., etc., but that Serpent Crown story in MTIO was great fun. Besides, Crisis really isn't a Bronze Age story - it kind of marks the end of the Bronze Age at DC...
ReplyDeleteOne benefit from these pairings: you pick up quite a few recommendations for reading! Each year during the Academy Awards, my wife runs a friendly competition to see who can pick the most winners. We try to see as many nominees as we can ( yet I still never pick well). In the same spirit, I'm going to have to hunt down some of these stories . Are the Panther's Rage issues available in a trade ?
ReplyDeleteRedartz --
ReplyDeleteI'd highly recommend the Marvel Masterworks that contains the entire Jungle Action run. You sniff around a bit, you might get a deal. I'd recommend In-Stock Trades (http://www.instocktrades.com/default.aspx) or other dealers who discount significantly.
Doug
Just checked -- there's also an Essentials
ReplyDeletehttp://www.instocktrades.com/TP/Marvel/ESSENTIAL-BLACK-PANTHER-TP-VOL-01/MAR120695
Doug
So much fun! Let the games begin!
ReplyDeleteDoug, I'm not surprised that Crisis isn't smoking Serpent Crown. First, as I said, this is a Marvel-centric populace. Second, for as important and wonderfully drawn as Crisis was, it was also somewhat controversial and did ultimately lead (though not its fault) to decades of chaos at DC. Finally, the Serpent Crown is a great Bronze Age yarn, whih is why I voted for it, though I do love Cisis (which I know does have its detractors).
ReplyDeleteI can't believe Korvac has any votes vs. Howard the Duck. Deus ex machina plots always bug me.
ReplyDeleteBTW, "Nights of Wundagore" actually ran from Avengers #181-187, (not just 185-187) which could affect the voting. It's one of my all-time favorite Avengers arcs, and if loses to freaking Killraven, I'll be extremely unhappy. But then again, Killraven was a much more popular and better selling book than the Avengers by John Byrne, so it shouldn't surprise me.
ReplyDeleteAre you kidding? Hard to tell as there's no inflection...but...Killraven? Korvac?
ReplyDeleteWilliam --
ReplyDeleteI know the recently-released tpb of "Nights..." included the issues you name, but I chose to just include the actual Nights of Wundagore issues as Karen and I reviewed over the past three weeks. I think you'll agree that what happened in Avengers 181-186 really has nothing to do with the Chthon story/origin of Wanda and Pietro (other than all of the foreshadowing with Django Maximoff).
Which brings me to another point about the brackets: Some of the story submission ideas did not come with specific issue numbers, so I took it upon myself to do some research and attempt to nail down the parameters. I know I'm off in some places and accept that responsibility -- but I thought it necessary to at least ballpark the issue numbers for those voters who may have had no clue to the story just by its title.
Anonymous -- I'm really not sure what your comment means.
Doug
Oh say, Doug-- somewhere above you asked about the color version of Red Nails-- it was indeed one of those large-scale Marvel Treasury Editions. I can't believe I own it. . . and have no idea how it came into my possession. Haven't looked at it in a long time, but I've a feeling it may have had a page ripped out (grrarrgh!). It's a great way to experience that story, though. Just like watching on the big screen.
ReplyDeleteIt's also reprinted in color in the second volume of Dark Horse's Barry Smith Conan collection.
HB
Thanks for that information, HB!
ReplyDeleteDoug
Doug: Red Nails also came out in a color regular sized comic in 1983. Great color in this one.
ReplyDeleteHi All – I love this. It’s so random.
ReplyDeleteDavid B – I hear what you say, and if the consequences of this were that all copies of the losing stories were going to be rounded up and pulped , I’d have a big problem with this too, but the consequences are that we’ll have some summer fun and we all get to shout at Doug.
Doug – ref Crisis vs Serpent Crown, I think the point dbutler makes about the Marvelcentric nature of the BAB is your answer. I, for one, know zilch about DC comics, so when you pitch just about any Marvel story against just about any DC story, I can only go one way. Until you get to Watchmen vs Ultimatum.
Anonymous – how is Korvac deus ex machina? The whole story is about how the Guardians are seeking the villain Korvac, but his omnipotence has actually made him heroic, albeit in a benevolent dictator kind of way. His sacrifice at the end, because of what turned out to be actual love, is where the story is heading all along. It IS his character arc. And if you’re referring to Starhawk not being able to perceive Michael, well, just about the first thing that happens in the story is that Michael destroys and recreates Starhawk and it then sets up the dénouement at the end. It is literally the exact opposite of a deus ex machina.
Doug – you definitely want Treasury Edition #4 for the colour version of Red Nails. I was nine when I read it, and genuinely shocked that a nine year old could buy it. It’s worth having for the cover alone, which is an incredible Smith/Buscema axe-wielding, blood-and-rain-soaked tableau.
Karen – I think either the law of averages is having a day off or Doug is having some fun with you. You might as well vote for Earthwar. You know nothing is going to take down the Kree Skrull war in round one.
Richard
The entire ending is deus ex machina. Just plain bad writing throughout.
ReplyDeleteSooooooo, wait--- waitwaitwaitwait. Anonymous-- you're kind of making an unsupported, blanket condemnation of a storyline that many, many folks hold a well-considered, but opposite, opinion on. To be fair to anyone else that might want to use the "anonymous" tag w/out being assumed to be you, did you want to maybe toss in a unique identifier for yourself? For the sake of discussion? Like Matt-alias-anonymous does, say? (Well, except don't use Humanbelly-- that one's taken. . . ). Otherwise some poor other "anonymous" may find themselves involved in a debate not of their own making. . .
ReplyDeleteHB
Doug and I encourage all commentators to provide some identifying name or nickname, for the very reasons HB has just mentioned.
ReplyDeleteAS for Korvac, I don't fee as strongly as our anonymous poster, but I have never held this story in high regard. What bothers me the most is the Avengers being relegated to supporting players in their own book.