Doug: So let's say you have a dinner date (OK, dinner meeting) with our pal Flint Marko (aka William Baker, aka the Sinister Sandman). How would you prefer ol' Sandy come dressed? Perhaps it depends on how high-end a restaurant you've chosen...
The first one wasn't a costume at all, he made an effort to look like a proper super-villain with the second one and it looks quite good - I suppose I prefer the first one slightly but I like both :)
The later costume seems a bit too glam rock for a guy like Marko. I definitely prefer the earlier version, which looked best in purple when he was hanging out and with the early Frightful Four. For third rate villains, they were quite stylish.
But what about the changing fashions of the DC Sandman? Wesley Dodds or Garrett Sanford? Or even - for all the goths out there - Morpheus?
I prefer the original version; it makes Sandy a bit more unique among super-villains: no real costume, just street clothes. Kind of appropriate for his rough, street thuggish personality. I can hear him now: " You got a problem with my duds? Have a facefull of sand ( hey, maybe Lee and Ditko were inspired to create Sandman by those old Muscleman ads where the kid gets sand kicked in his face by some big goof...)".
I'll go with the 'glam' look as we see in his FF appearance here. Just seems like Kirby met ol' Sandy and decided a make-over.
Seriously, in this run of Lee/Kirby issues, would ANYONE expect Sandy **not** to show up in ultra-cool duds..? You can't just show up the Baxter Building wearing jeans, y'know.
It spoke to his flimsy intentions, suddenly getting some cool technology to whirl around and surprise folks, yet end up the same old whiny loser he typically becomes.
That "battle suit", for lack of a better term, became a sort of cornucopia of nasties. Oil to mix with the sand, etc. One of his appearances in that suit that was particularly memorable to me was Amazing Spider-Man #154, with a great Romita cover.
I like the look of the redesigned suit, but it's just too over-the-top for Sandman. I prefer the original, working class/regular Joe look. Like Redartz noted, it just seems to suit his personality.
I prefer the original. The new costume was classic Kirby, but the original made more sense.
After all, those were the clothes Flint had on when he got blowed up and became Sandman, and they got imbued with the same powers he did. So, I always figured he was just stuck with that look from then on.
Plus, it's the original brown pants and green shirt combo that has endured the test of time. As a result, I thought the best thing about Spider-Man 3 was the way Sandman looked. It was like he jumped right out of the comics onto the big screen. (That's a rare thing for a movie to do). And I doubt that it would have happened if he'd still been in his flashy super-villain duds.
There are a couple of instances where I liked the Sandman’s new suit. In his aforementioned association with the Frightful four, it made sense that the Wizard would supply him with some kind of battle suit and he would not just be wearing street clothes. Also, I really enjoyed one of Sandman’s appearances in the Incredible Hulk; there he seemed more formidable in the fighting togs. It seemed to add to his apparent strength; from what I recall the brutes were fighting in a space capsule. I don’t mind his striped street clothes when he is more of street level brute and robber thug. So for me, the costume reflects the mission. I do think he could lose the headgear on the new costume and it may be better.
Regarding Doug’s question and costume changes for villains, I much prefer the Grim Reaper’s black costume with skull and crossbones (circa Avengers 160), rather than the multi colored initial costume. And both are much more preferable to the ghoulish look that evolved in the 90s.
Also, I think the Mandarin in robes is better than Mandarin is spandex. And Magneto in helmet is much better than Magneto with his face exposed.
There were also some villains who upgraded costumes, retooled, and renamed themselves like Pate Pot Pete to the Trapster, Whizzer to the Speed Demon, and the Human Top to Whirlwind. I liked the latter revised versions much better.
Namor? Theres the original - but classic - green trunks, and then in the 70s he started sporting that blue armoured waistcoat get up. I forget if there was a rationale behind the change - did that suit have anything to do with preserving his strength out of water, or was he just going for a different look?
But otherwise, Doug... unless you count Kang coming back as Immortus or whoever else - which I don't - thats a tricky one. I think maybe its harder to come up with a really good villain - a proper A-list villain - than a hero. I mean, readers have tolerated changes to the FF, but its hard to imagine anyone putting up with a different Dr Doom...
I'm with Sean...I like Wes Dodds' suit-and-gas-mask combo; but for Marvel's Sandman, I always preferred the classic green t-shirt.
As for other characters with distinct looks, Spidey (red suit/black suit) is an obvious one (I prefer the old red n' blue). Halo (of the Outsiders) started in a black costume with a rainbow design and later switched to white (and cut her hair)...I'm not sure which I prefer. Black Lightning changed his costume, and his overall look...I kinda prefer the classic look for him. And Wasp had about a billion different costumes, but very few were used regularly.
I always thought that the reason he got the costume upgrade was to make him a more viable villain for the Fantastic Four. The sand thing itself was great for fighting Spiderman, but if he was going up against the Thing, or later in his career, the Hulk, he definitely needed something to give him the edge.
That said, I vote for the original costume for the simple fact that it keeps him looking more like an ordinary Joe. Makes what he can do and what he's using his abilities for a lot more disturbing. Also made me root for him for that brief period when he was trying to go straight and find a way to use his powers to make a living.
By the way, how the heck does someone manage to sprain their wrist while asleep? I did it last night and, naturally, it's my drawing hand.
Who does Sandman hang out with outside of "work?" The Thing. Ben Grimm wouldn't be caught dead in a bar with Glam Flint. I'd go with his original look.
As for villains with 2 distinct outfits, I liked the Riddler having his spandex costume as well as his suit & tie. I think the suit came about because Frank Gorshin found the tights extremely uncomfortable. Eventually, the comics used both.
There's also Catwoman's purple & green number vs. her black costumes. I like both but I think the black leather look works better.
PFG, re: "...how the heck does someone manage to sprain their wrist while asleep?" Well, the most likely explanation is that while you've been fighting crime at night while sleepwalking...
He built his battle-suit after taking "a refresher course in science?!" What, down at the community college? Or was it a night class at the library? That must've been some course! They didn't offer that when I was there. m.p.
I prefer Sandman in his purple Frightful Four costume. While we are talking about him, Sandman should have stayed with the Frightful Four. If only he would return to them someday... but then, there would be no purpose in him doing so, unless the Fantastic Four make a comeback.
The first one wasn't a costume at all, he made an effort to look like a proper super-villain with the second one and it looks quite good - I suppose I prefer the first one slightly but I like both :)
ReplyDeleteThe later costume seems a bit too glam rock for a guy like Marko. I definitely prefer the earlier version, which looked best in purple when he was hanging out and with the early Frightful Four. For third rate villains, they were quite stylish.
ReplyDeleteBut what about the changing fashions of the DC Sandman? Wesley Dodds or Garrett Sanford? Or even - for all the goths out there - Morpheus?
-sean
I prefer the original version; it makes Sandy a bit more unique among super-villains: no real costume, just street clothes. Kind of appropriate for his rough, street thuggish personality. I can hear him now: " You got a problem with my duds? Have a facefull of sand ( hey, maybe Lee and Ditko were inspired to create Sandman by those old Muscleman ads where the kid gets sand kicked in his face by some big goof...)".
ReplyDeleteI'll go with the 'glam' look as we see in his FF appearance here. Just seems like Kirby met ol' Sandy and decided a make-over.
ReplyDeleteSeriously, in this run of Lee/Kirby issues, would ANYONE expect Sandy **not** to show up in ultra-cool duds..? You can't just show up the Baxter Building wearing jeans, y'know.
It spoke to his flimsy intentions, suddenly getting some cool technology to whirl around and surprise folks, yet end up the same old whiny loser he typically becomes.
Nice column idea today.
That "battle suit", for lack of a better term, became a sort of cornucopia of nasties. Oil to mix with the sand, etc. One of his appearances in that suit that was particularly memorable to me was Amazing Spider-Man #154, with a great Romita cover.
ReplyDeleteDoug
I like the look of the redesigned suit, but it's just too over-the-top for Sandman. I prefer the original, working class/regular Joe look. Like Redartz noted, it just seems to suit his personality.
ReplyDeleteI prefer the original. The new costume was classic Kirby, but the original made more sense.
ReplyDeleteAfter all, those were the clothes Flint had on when he got blowed up and became Sandman, and they got imbued with the same powers he did. So, I always figured he was just stuck with that look from then on.
Plus, it's the original brown pants and green shirt combo that has endured the test of time. As a result, I thought the best thing about Spider-Man 3 was the way Sandman looked. It was like he jumped right out of the comics onto the big screen. (That's a rare thing for a movie to do). And I doubt that it would have happened if he'd still been in his flashy super-villain duds.
I like both, but the first is the best. I agree with AnymouSean, the second, while cool is a bit glam for William "Flint Marko" Baker.
ReplyDeleteAnyone have a short list of baddies who have two distinct looks, both acceptable and used regularly?
ReplyDeleteCertainly Luthor pre- and post-battlesuit, but I always envision him in the battlesuit.
Others?
Doug
There are a couple of instances where I liked the Sandman’s new suit. In his aforementioned association with the Frightful four, it made sense that the Wizard would supply him with some kind of battle suit and he would not just be wearing street clothes. Also, I really enjoyed one of Sandman’s appearances in the Incredible Hulk; there he seemed more formidable in the fighting togs. It seemed to add to his apparent strength; from what I recall the brutes were fighting in a space capsule. I don’t mind his striped street clothes when he is more of street level brute and robber thug. So for me, the costume reflects the mission. I do think he could lose the headgear on the new costume and it may be better.
ReplyDeleteRegarding Doug’s question and costume changes for villains, I much prefer the Grim Reaper’s black costume with skull and crossbones (circa Avengers 160), rather than the multi colored initial costume. And both are much more preferable to the ghoulish look that evolved in the 90s.
Also, I think the Mandarin in robes is better than Mandarin is spandex. And Magneto in helmet is much better than Magneto with his face exposed.
There were also some villains who upgraded costumes, retooled, and renamed themselves like Pate Pot Pete to the Trapster, Whizzer to the Speed Demon, and the Human Top to Whirlwind. I liked the latter revised versions much better.
Namor? Theres the original - but classic - green trunks, and then in the 70s he started sporting that blue armoured waistcoat get up. I forget if there was a rationale behind the change - did that suit have anything to do with preserving his strength out of water, or was he just going for a different look?
ReplyDeleteBut otherwise, Doug... unless you count Kang coming back as Immortus or whoever else - which I don't - thats a tricky one. I think maybe its harder to come up with a really good villain - a proper A-list villain - than a hero. I mean, readers have tolerated changes to the FF, but its hard to imagine anyone putting up with a different Dr Doom...
-sean
I'm with Sean...I like Wes Dodds' suit-and-gas-mask combo; but for Marvel's Sandman, I always preferred the classic green t-shirt.
ReplyDeleteAs for other characters with distinct looks, Spidey (red suit/black suit) is an obvious one (I prefer the old red n' blue). Halo (of the Outsiders) started in a black costume with a rainbow design and later switched to white (and cut her hair)...I'm not sure which I prefer. Black Lightning changed his costume, and his overall look...I kinda prefer the classic look for him. And Wasp had about a billion different costumes, but very few were used regularly.
Mike Wilson
I like both.
ReplyDeleteThe second suit are his "go to work" clothes. . . so for a dinner date the first seems more appropriate. :)
Everything's just going to feel gritty on that table...
ReplyDeleteDoug
Hiya,
ReplyDeleteI always thought that the reason he got the costume upgrade was to make him a more viable villain for the Fantastic Four. The sand thing itself was great for fighting Spiderman, but if he was going up against the Thing, or later in his career, the Hulk, he definitely needed something to give him the edge.
That said, I vote for the original costume for the simple fact that it keeps him looking more like an ordinary Joe. Makes what he can do and what he's using his abilities for a lot more disturbing. Also made me root for him for that brief period when he was trying to go straight and find a way to use his powers to make a living.
By the way, how the heck does someone manage to sprain their wrist while asleep? I did it last night and, naturally, it's my drawing hand.
seeya
pfgavigan
Who does Sandman hang out with outside of "work?" The Thing. Ben Grimm wouldn't be caught dead in a bar with Glam Flint. I'd go with his original look.
ReplyDeleteAs for villains with 2 distinct outfits, I liked the Riddler having his spandex costume as well as his suit & tie. I think the suit came about because Frank Gorshin found the tights extremely uncomfortable. Eventually, the comics used both.
There's also Catwoman's purple & green number vs. her black costumes. I like both but I think the black leather look works better.
- Mike Loughlin
Hmm if it's a dive bar I'd definitely go with the old green striped jersey. For a more
ReplyDeleteupscale establishment, I'd go for the battlesuit!
- Mike 'wonders if Flint Marko tips well' from Trinidad & Tobago.
PFG, re: "...how the heck does someone manage to sprain their wrist while asleep?"
ReplyDeleteWell, the most likely explanation is that while you've been fighting crime at night while sleepwalking...
He built his battle-suit after taking "a refresher course in science?!"
ReplyDeleteWhat, down at the community college? Or was it a night class at the library?
That must've been some course! They didn't offer that when I was there.
m.p.
The second is a good design...for someone else. It doesn't really work as an extension of the character we were introduced to.
ReplyDeleteI prefer Sandman in his purple Frightful Four costume. While we are talking about him, Sandman should have stayed with the Frightful Four. If only he would return to them someday... but then, there would be no purpose in him doing so, unless the Fantastic Four make a comeback.
ReplyDelete