A Simple Question Regarding Character Adaptation to Film

Martinex1:   In all of Super-Hero cinema, what character was adapted best from the source material?   What character's representation was not adapted well at all?

Whether influenced by the acting style, the directorial plan, plot devices, or the writing choices. what character was portrayed most faithfully?  And who was not?   Hero, villain, or supporting character - share your thoughts about their transition from paper to celluloid. 

In my opinion Captain America has overall been a great portrayal of the comic character, while his Avengers teammate Hawkeye I have found lacking.   And that is not because I don't like the Hawkeye in cinema;  I actually think that Jeremy Renner has done a nice job.   As far as an adaptation though, the movie Hawkeye is a far cry from the comic book Hawkeye.   Gone is the villainous past, the carnival upbringing, the sarcastic and cocky attitude, the respect for Cap, the distrust of authority, and the cool costume. The screen Hawkeye - family man and S.H.I.E.L.D. agent - is not bad but is also definitely not the same.   In the books, I always think of Hawkeye as the heart and humor of the Avengers; he deserves to be in the corner box just as much as the Vision.   In the movies he is a sidekick with limited screen time and development.   That is just my opinion... now please share yours.

To get your whistles whetted, here is just a partial list of characters who have made it to the big screen (kind of amazing in and of itself actually).   In no particular order:

Aunt May, Ben Grimm / Thing, Betty Ross, Dr. Doom, Professor Xavier, Moira MacTaggert, J. Jonah Jameson, Gwen Stacy, T'Challa / Black Panther, Red Skull, Loki, Jean Grey, Natasha Romanoff / Black Widow, Bucky Barnes, Dum Dum Dugan, Gamora, Abomination, Sif, Odin, Peter Parker / Spider-Man, Bruce Wayne / Batman, Pa Kent, Lois Lane, Blade, Wonder Woman, Nick Fury, Perry White, Rocket Raccoon, Alfred, Catwoman, Baron Zemo, Vision, Scarlet Witch, Cyclops, Beast, Norman Osborn / Green Goblin, Magneto, Penguin, Joker, Mary Jane Watson, Star-Lord, Reed Richards / Mister Fantastic,  Iceman, Rogue, Wolverine, Electro, Ronan, Doctor Octopus, Ultron, Quicksilver, Thor, Tony Stark / Iron Man,  Clark Kent / Superman, Thunderbolt Ross, Jimmy Olson, Riddler, Robin, Ant-Man, Hank Pym, Falcon, Happy Hogan, Flash Thompson, Mr, Freeze, Lizard, Jane Foster, The Comedian, Johnny Storm / The Human Torch, War Machine, Bruce Banner / Hulk, Uncle Ben, Havok, Banshee, Jasper Sitwell, Ma Kent, Venom, Jor-El, Pepper Potts, Colossus, Deadpool, Jarvis, Bane, Ra's al Ghul, The Mandarin, Justin Hammer, Sue Richards / Invisible Woman, Peggy Carter, Sharon Carter, Storm, Wasp, Mystique, Whiplash, Yellowjacket, Hogun, Heimdall, Groot, The Collector, Arnim Zola, Silver Surfer, and Thanos.   Nuff said.

The Inevitable Re-Ranking of MCU Films

Doug: Now that the dust has settled from the release of Captain America: Civil War, the next conversation that - to be honest, probably happened immediately - is "Where does this film lay in your ranking of MCU films?" I know that I've mulled it over with my sons, and you've probably had the conversation, too.

Karen: It is a constant topic with my husband and I. And it gets harder with each new film, since I have pretty much liked them all, except Iron Man 3.

For those with faulty memories (raises hand), here are the 13 films in the Marvel Cinematic Universe that have been released to date, chronologically listed:

1. Iron Man
2. The Incredible Hulk
3. Iron Man 2
4. Thor
5. Captain America: The First Avenger
6. Marvel's The Avengers
7. Iron Man 3
8. Thor: The Dark World
9. Captain America: The Winter Soldier
10. Guardians of the Galaxy
11. Avengers: Age of Ultron
12. Ant-Man
13. Captain America: Civil War

Doug: Let's hear your rankings. I imagine that for many of us our top 5 will be pretty similar, although I'm sure there will be some surprises (heresies, even) along the way.

Doug: For me - and this could change tomorrow - I would rank the films as such:

1. Marvel's The Avengers
2. Captain America: The Winter Soldier
3. Iron Man
4. Avengers: Age of Ultron
5. Captain America: Civil War
6. Guardians of the Galaxy
7. Captain America: The First Avenger
8. Ant-Man
9. Thor
10. Iron Man 2
11. Thor: The Dark World
12. Iron Man 3
13. The Incredible Hulk (I've not ever seen this film all the way through, so maybe "N/A" is best)

Karen: I mentioned to Doug offline that my husband and I had made our own lists of the (then 12) films at Christmas and compared them, but since then I had tossed out that list. My first two answers haven't changed, and neither have my final three. But I think the middle has moved around a lot. The thing is, with the exception of Iron Man 3, I actually like all the films! So deciding where to put them is really difficult, as in many cases, it's a matter of perhaps characters winning out more than quality -that's why Thor ranks higher for me than Ant-Man.

1. Captain America: The Winter Soldier
2. Marvel's The Avengers
3. Avengers: Age of Ultron
4. Captain America: Civil War
5. Iron Man
6. Iron Man 2
7. Thor
8. Captain America: The First Avenger
9. Guardians of the Galaxy
10. Ant-Man
11. Thor: The Dark World
12. The Incredible Hulk
13. Iron Man 3

Doug: For further consideration, and after you've done your MCU rankings, think about non-MCU comic book flicks and where you'd slide those in. With that in mind, here's a revised Top 10 for me (again, this changes with the wind and I hope I'm not forgetting anything):

1. Marvel's The Avengers
2. Captain America: The Winter Soldier
3. Spider-Man 2
4. Superman 2
5. Iron Man
6. Avengers: Age of Ultron
7. Batman (1966)
8. Captain America: Civil War
9. Batman (1989)
10. X-Men: First Class

Karen: I've had some time to think about this, and I'm not sure anything else breaks into that Marvel top ten. I have a sentimental love of Superman and Superman 2 but I'm not sure they slip past Ant-Man or Guardians. Maybe. The X-Men films, particularly X2 and First Class, are strong contenders. Spider-Man 2 is another solid one. But I can't honestly say any of them beat this current crop of Marvel films for me. Part of it may be, they are all so much part of a piece. Sure, stylistically they are all the same -but that is part of the appeal, at least to me. So no second list for me -I'll stand pat on this one.

Ranking the Marvel Movies

Doug: In our discussion of the Ant-Man film a few days ago, the conversation turned to our rankings of the films in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. This weekend, let's go ahead and do that as a formal activity. Feel free to rank your favorites across the MCU, and tell us some favorite scenes or lines from those movies. And, if you're so inclined, why not repeat the drill but while adding in the non-MCU flicks such as the Spider-Man and X-Men films. Should be fun to see everyone's perceptions!

Doug: So in the post last Thursday, I commented as such --

My ranking of MCU films would be similar to William's, although I'm not certain but that I would have Winter Soldier at the top or at least tied with the first Avengers film. So, for controversy's sake:

1. Avengers
2. Winter Soldier
3. Iron Man
4. Avengers: Age of Ultron
5. Captain America
6. Ant-Man (?)

And then darned if Martinex1 didn't remind me of the Guardians of the Galaxy! Duh to me... So, in the spirit of commenting revisionism, here's how I'd probably revise my list (but ask me again in two hours and you might get something different) --

1. Avengers
2. Captain America: Winter Soldier
3. Iron Man
4. Avengers: Age of Ultron
5. Captain America: The First Avenger

6. Guardians of the Galaxy
7. Ant-Man
8. Iron Man 2
9. Thor
10. Thor: The Dark World

Now, if I wrap in my thoughts on the non-MCU films, the two Thor movies are going to get the heave ho. Here's how I'd see it now (again, could turn in a minute):

1. Avengers
2. Captain America: Winter Soldier
3. Iron Man
4. Avengers: Age of Ultron
5. Captain America: The First Avenger

6. Spider-Man 2
7. Guardians of the Galaxy
8. Ant-Man
9. X2: X-Men United
10. Iron Man 2

So where do you stand. Right now, that is...

Young, Gifted, and Black: Why not Miles Morales?

Let's try this again.

When we originally posted this, unfortunately an anonymous commenter came on and made a personal attack on another commenter, and things quickly escalated before Doug or I could intervene. We've always said that our vision for this blog is one of a friendly place to hang out (unlike so much of the internet), and we've been lucky to see that come true. What happened with this post was a rare exception, thankfully. We pulled down the post to let things cool down a bit, and have deleted the attack post and the argument that came after. If anyone has questions about the sort of conduct we expect here at BAB, it's posted on the sidebar under "Drama-Free Zone" (that should be a clue). Basically: play nice. We encourage discussion and debate, but we won't tolerate personal attacks or hostility towards others.

We hope by re-opening the post it will allow anyone who might have been discouraged from commenting to join in and move the conversation forward. 


Karen:  I want to talk about something that's been popping up on the interwebs lately -the idea that when Spidey appears in the genuine Marvel cinematic universe, he might not be Peter Parker at all, but Miles Morales. Or at least, he might not be white.

OK, now that the collective gasp and initial outrage has passed, let's  rationally look at this idea, shall we? I'll admit, my first reaction to the idea of a non-Peter Parker Spider-Man on the big screen was one of dismay. Peter is MY Spider-Man. That's who I grew up with. The kid with a million problems and a huge sense of responsibility, who comes alive when he puts on that red and blue suit. It's hard to think of seeing anyone else up there. But these feelings were mired in sentimentality. I tried to steer clear of that, and consider the idea with an open mind.What, I asked myself, seemed essential about Spider-Man, as an idea, a concept?

There are certain things I think have to be retained to make any version of Spider-Man feasible. The "with great power comes great responsibility" theme is the backbone of the character and has to be present. The Everyman nature -the kid with a million problems -is also at the core of what makes him so appealing. And finally, the sense of fun, of youthful exuberance, of sheer rebellion, with the web-slinging and wisecracking, is the final ingredient in the mix.

So why couldn't we get this with Miles Morales? Admittedly, I haven't read a single comic with him in it. I had to look up info on him to get the lowdown. But he's been Peter's successor in the Ultimate universe for four years now, so it's not as if we're pulling somebody out of thin air, or taking a white character and 'turning' him black, ala Nick Fury or Johnny Storm in the new Fantastic Four film. So no one can complain that he's not a 'real' comic book character. No, Miles has been around and he's got fans.

He's also a lot like Peter, in that he's a science nerd. He was also pretty young when he first became Spidey -just 13, even younger than Peter. He got his powers through a spider bite too, although this spider was created by Norman Osborn. Now they'd probably have to change his origin in the movies, if there's no Peter Parker. But big deal. They could do that. He's got problems with his family -his uncle is even a super-villain. So there's plenty of angst there.

So what are the pros? Well, it would distance Marvel from the last two Spider-Man films, which were not that successful (although, unlike some folks here, I really liked Andrew Garfield as Peter/Spidey). It would also make it clear that this was an entirely different Spider-Man. It would be fresh, and exciting.

It would bring some much needed diversity to the Marvel cinematic universe, which currently has only three African American characters (Fury, Falcon, and War Machine), all  in supporting roles, although Black Panther is on his way. With Miles we'd have an A list hero of color. Some might ask, 'Why does this matter?' It does matter. It's important for our heroes to reflect society as a whole and I'm betting for some kids, to see a super-hero who looks like them among a bunch of otherwise white heroes, is a very big deal. Of course, Spidey has always been one of the few heroes who was covered head to toe, and could "be" anyone -Stan Lee makes that point in this clip at around the 1:15 mark:

Marvel's lucky -they really wouldn't have to change their toys or other products at all. Well, Miles' outfit is different but they might elect to stick with the traditional suit just for marketing purposes. 

What are the cons? Dumping Peter Parker does risk fan backlash. And let's admit it, there are still a lot of just plain prejudiced people out there. There's also the marketing issues, but again -Spider-Man looks like Spider-Man, regardless of who's in the costume (well, unless it's the Blob). 

I have to admit, I wish I knew more about Miles. My number one complaint about the Raimi Spider-Man films was that I never felt they captured the glib, smart-aleck nature of the character. The two recent, reboot films seemed to get that right, although that was about all they got right. I don't know if Miles has a similar personality. I'd miss that if he was a more serious guy.

But honestly, I feel like I am ready to give Miles a chance. I didn't think I could get to this place when I first heard the idea bandied around, but you know, I've had MY Spider-Man, maybe it is time to try a new one. When the new Star Trek films came out, with new actors playing Kirk and Spock and the rest, it wasn't MY Trek, but you know, I enjoyed them for what they were, and I always have my DVDs of the original series and movies to look at if I need that fix. I think we have to seriously consider the idea of Miles Morales as Spider-Man in the film universe, and not dismiss it so easily.