A Man Out of Time

Doug: I've said from time-to-time around these parts that I was out of comic buying during my high school and very early college years. Preoccupations, didn't think girls thought it was cool, finances -- I suppose there were many reasons (excuses) why. When, in the spring of my freshman year of college (1985) I discovered comic shops while with some friends who collected, my mind just exploded and I was hooked right back into it. Trouble was, there was so much catching up to do! On the ride back to campus, and for literally days after I just dogged my friends for information to get myself back up to speed. And I can tell you -- from 1980-85, there had been a lot of change! From the goings-on in my favorite books to the arrivals and departures of creators, it was a different landscape.

So I'm out of comics again, so to speak -- I've bought literally only a handful of books (i.e. 5 or less) in the past five years. My excuse now is that Bendis and the mega-events drove me away -- my story and I'm sticking to it (unless of course you want to get me going on price)! So I wonder -- can you imagine getting someone who'd been out of the hobby since, say 2004, "caught up"?? Where would you begin? And what's more -- what are the improvements and "deprovements" since then?

Also, if you have a similar story about being out and getting back in, or your take on being out right now, go ahead and share. Thanks!


EDIT: Wow -- talk about a weird experience. About three hours after I typed this, I saw a post over on the Avengers Assemble message boards that perfectly dovetailed with my questions. You can check it out here.

X-Men 102: Juggernaut - n. A force considered as unstoppable.

X-Men #102 (December 1976)
"Who Will Stop the Juggernaut?"
Chris Claremont-Dave Cockrum/Sam Grainger

Doug: If you are a full-peruser of our site, you have probably seen our teaser on the left side, boldly announcing where we're going to head topic-wise. Well, if that's you, then you've seen our interest in taking a look at the All-New, All-Different X-Men versus none other than Magneto! And we'll get to that. But, we thought it might be fun to back up just a bit and continue where we left off, back when we were evaluating the Sentinels/Phoenix storyline.

Doug: The only problem with that last issue (#101) was that it was a split story and we only looked at the first half. The latter half goes like this: After Jean had stabilized in the hospital, Professor X decided that the rest of the team needed some time away to recover. In the days since the new team had formed, they'd gone from one death-defying adventure into another. This would be some time to bond as a team and to simply relax. So Banshee offered his ancestral home, Cassidy Keep, in Ireland as their place of refuge; Scott chose to stay behind with Jean. Once there, the time was indeed refreshing and author Chris Claremont used the absence of Cyclops as an opportunity for more character development. All did not end well in that story, though, as the team was ambushed by Banshee's cousin Black Tom Cassidy and cohort, the Juggernaut! As that book ended, the cards were definitely stacked against our band of merry mutants, as the opponents were formidable and Storm had collapsed to the floor in an acute attack of claustrophobia!


Doug: So we pick up right where we left off, with the Juggernaut launching a violent attack against the team. Banshee moves against his cousin, leaving Wolverine, Nightcrawler, and Colossus alone. But mysteriously, Peter turns from the fight to attempt to help Storm. Wolverine chastises him (insults him, actually), and in the midst of this brawl which could certainly kill them all, they begin to argue! This was just great -- we all know Marvel was built on dysfunctional relationships and this is a great legacy from Stan and Jack.

Karen: We're thrown right into the action here. One thing I always wondered about: Black Tom says he's immune to Banshee's sonic powers. Why? Because they're related? How does that work? That just never made sense to me. But this opening sequence is a lot of fun, especially when Wolverine flings Colossus into the Juggernaut! This really was a throw-back fight, with Wolvie and Colossus yelling at each while Juggernaut takes advantage of the situation to pound on both of them! Interestingly, our little buddy's adamantium claws seem to have no effect on Juggernaut -I doubt this would be the case today!

Karen: Choosing a wiser course, Nightcrawler tries to get Storm into the fight, but it appears hopeless. Kurt knows that without Storm they haven't the power to face Juggernaut. I really liked Nightcrawler as a kid, and one of the reasons why (besides his appearance) was that Claremont always portrayed him as a very thoughtful character.
Doug: As the battle rages, Storm gets introspective, hating her paralysis. Memories begin to flood back to her and we see her origin for the first time. I have to say, this is one of the highlights of the issue. Claremont weaves a very believable tale that is anchored in historical events. Now, what might be problematic for some is the old Marvel time/Real time paradox. Claremont chooses 1951 as Ororo's birth year -- in 1976 that would have made her 25, and it had been understood from the beginning that this team was older than the original X-Men. But it's just a great backstory that ends with Xavier's recruiting trip to Africa (which we were privy to in Giant-Size X-Men #1).
 
Karen: Storm's origin story is just terrific. I understand from reading others' commentary that many elements of her past were apparently borrowed from other sources, but as a kid, I knew none of this. It was just an amazing journey, from the streets of New York -yes, Ororo is an American! - to Egypt and on into Africa. Cockrum draws a beautiful picture of the young Ororo -in fact, the entire sequence is wonderfully drawn. Of course, as time has gone on, I'm sure any thought of Storm being born in 1951, and the events which surrounded her becoming an orphan, have been swept under the rug!

Doug: Two other interesting bits of foreshadowing take place. In the first, after Xavier has ordered Cyke to get over to Ireland and help the team (which Scott flat-out refused, drawing a quite-inflamed retort from the professor), he sees a vision in the mirror -- a very alien vision. The second tidbit comes in the form of Nightcrawler, knocked out by the Juggernaut and landing in the shadows. For the first time we see that he becomes invisible when in the dark. His limp body is then dragged through a trap in the wall by... leprechauns?

Karen: Cyclops standing up to Professor X was unexpected but worked perfectly, as we knew (after all the events of the preceding issues) that Scott had finally realized that Jean was more important to him than anything else. Professor X has always been a bit of an enigma: at times kindly, at time imperious. But his mysterious visions were intriguing and created a storyline for him, which was a nice change.

Karen: Then we come to the leprechauns...Okay, I don't know why I can believe in mutants, aliens, and mystic forces, but start to feel annoyed when leprechauns are brought into the picture! But I did think this was one step too far.
Doug: That's funny that you brought up the unbelievability of the leprechauns because I was thinking the exact same thing! Yep, my suspension of disbelief only goes so far...

Doug: Near the end of the story, there's a great half-splash of Colossus and the Juggernaut in final combat. Alas, it's the Juggernaut who comes out on top, and coupled with Black Tom's besting of Banshee, the stage is set for a not-so-good opening to issue #103!

Karen: Colossus comes back and gives Juggernaut his best shot, but it's not enough. Seeing Peter go down, Storm starts to come out of her stupor, but it's too little, too late. Juggernaut takes her down and triumphantly hoists Storm and Colossus over his head while Black Tom proclaims that Xavier will be next!
 

What's the Best Team Book EVER?

Doug: Whaddaya think? The Justice League of America, the Defenders, the Forever People, the Avengers, the Challengers of the Unknown, the Fantastic Four, the Legion of Super-Heroes, the X-Men, the Secret Society of Super-Villains, the Champions, the Justice Society of America, X-Factor, the Teen Titans, the Invaders, the Doom Patrol... and on and on. There is certainly no shortage of strong nominees for your favorite book of long-john buddies (yeah, that sounded weird).


Of course, being a teacher I'm not going to let you off the hook with a simple answer -- puh-lease tell us why you feel the way you feel. And have a blast doing so!

Shrouded in Mystery, Part 3: Super-Villain Team-Up 7

Super-Villain Team-Up #7 (August 1976)
"Who is... the Shroud?"
Steve Englehart-Herb Trimpe/Pablo Marcos

Doug: OK, now hear this: I am happy to see Pablo Marcos' inks. Yep -- for all the detracting I've done over the past few months, I am telling our readers here and now that ol' Pablo is a savior. I was never happier for my eyes to greet his work.

Karen: Savior? I don't know if I'd go that far. Maybe better than the previous inkers, but honestly, all these issues have been relatively mediocre art-wise. Marcos certainly couldn't be any worse!

Doug: OK, yeah -- so savior might be a tad over-the-top. But he did clean up Trimpe's pencils, and inflect a little dynamism; he also made the faces look less 1950's-ish (if you know what I mean).

Doug: We pick this one up as the FF depart Doom's castle. Doom and Dr. Henry Kissinger (US Secretary of State during the Nixon and Ford administrations) have just signed a non-aggression pact. As per that agreement, the FF is ordered to desist in attacking Doom. Sullen and defeated, the team exits as Doom gloats to himself. Namor is also present, and resigns himself to his situation of slavery to Doom. Author Steve Englehart uses the next several pages as his political pulpit, but to be quite honest, he provides balance. Reed plays the part of the conservative, not wanting change or really to upset the apple cart. Johnny is the flaming liberal (pun intended), while Namor muses to himself as (somewhat surprisingly) a moderate. It's an interesting spectrum, and for the most part well done.

Karen: The political angle is one of the more bizarre elements of what has been a fairly bland story. We get a whole page of the FF arguing about whether to defy the authorities or not. I was amused by Reed saying,"After winning the confidence of every president from Kennedy to Ford, the Fantastic Four is not about to buck the government's decisions!" Boy, I loved those days when the comics were essentially operating in real time! And how about that reference by Johnny, comparing Doom to Hitler? That's certainly not something you see now -but probably for the better. I'm tired of people dragging out Hitler every time they want to besmirch someone.

Doug: As Namor concludes his soliloquy, he is suddenly aware that he is not alone. Stepping from the shadows is the mystery man we've encountered in each of the previous two issues -- the Shroud! The Shroud introduces himself, and then tells Namor his entire backstory. And what do you know? I think we've heard this before! Hey, I don't know if there was a lawsuit back in the day, filed by DC Comics, but there should have been! Wow -- Englehart's not even hiding the fact that he's ripping off Bob Kane and Bill Finger, as this is the exact origin of Bruce Wayne as it's played out over the years. And I thought it just really detracted from the story. Look, I've been taking both Trimpe and Englehart to task during this 3-issue run we've looked at, and today is no exception. There's just a lot here not to like. Don't get me wrong -- this isn't an issue of "it doesn't hold up"; instead, it's just sloppy storytelling.

Karen: Actually I thought that Englehart was ripping off two characters: Batman and Kwai Chang Caine from the TV series Kung Fu! First we get the Batman stuff -the kid who sees his parents gunned down by a thug and swears vengeance. Then he goes off to study at a monastery, gets branded, and runs out into the snow -all like in Kung Fu! Engelhart has already said in a few interviews that he and Jim Starlin were very influenced by that show when they created Shang-Chi. I guess that influence carried over here.

Karen: But the 'borrowing' didn't really bother me. Hey, if you're going to steal, steal from the best! I liked the Shroud, probably precisely because he was so Batman-like. For me, he was the best thing to come out of this storyline.
Doug: So the Shroud announces that his mission is to kill Doom. Namor laughs it off, but the Shroud leaves anyway. Then we get a couple of really strange scenes. We see Doom walking through the streets of Latveria with his hounds, and entering a family home. He declares that he has come to exercise an ages-old right, and requests the daughter of the house. Creeeeee-py! Oh, and what's the deal with Latveria's location? Earlier it was stated that it's in the Balkans; if that's true, it's closer to Austria than Greece, as the family here speaks German. However, in the same scene Doom uses a French phrase. Next, we see the FF speeding home, still arguing, only to have Reed whip the Fantasticar around and head for Hydrobase -- where Namor's allies have holed up. And then we get to a multi-page battle between Doom and the Shroud, where the Shroud comes off, again, as a Batman-clone.

Karen: Doom's claiming of the peasant girl was icky. Luckily the Comics Code was still in place, so it never went much further than Doom ranting at her. Still, it was a little disturbing.
Doug: The story ends with Doom casting away his burning chestplate, only to be attacked by wolves and his hounds and toppled over a cliff to his seeming death. Until you turn to the last page...

Karen: The battle with Doom was fun. I don't know if I really believed for a minute that the Shroud could do so well against Doom, but it was fun to see Doom go down. I think perhaps his over-confidence was what's really on display here. The part where he's attacked by his own dogs and goes over the cliff reminded me of nothing so much as an old Hammer horror film -I could easily visualize Dracula in place of Doom! And the dogs turning on "their master" - it's what the Latverians would like to do, I'm sure, but are too afraid to try. Despite our lackluster reviews, I have to admit, the ending made me want to go get the next issue!

BAB Two-in-One: A Blast from the Past and Butt-Paste and Bumblebees

Karen: One of the few modern comics that I am actually excited about every month is Marvel's Atlas (formerly Agents of Atlas), which has the sort of goofy action I find missing from most books. To me, it doesn't get much better than robots, flying saucers, and talking gorillas!

Karen: But the Atlas team originally appeared in a very different way: they were part of an alternate reality, presented back in What If #9 (1978). Although Roy Thomas came up with the idea of a 50s super-team, he didn't write this issue. This highly unusual team of obscure characters was put together by a team that was most likely obscure to comics fans at least: writer Don Glut has been active in comic and sci fi fandom for decades, but this might have been his first comic writing assignment. Artist Alan Kupperberg was just getting his start, and inker Bill Black - well, I don't know if we ever heard from him again! But the three turn in an entertaining tale about a super-team set in the 1950s -a team that calls itself the Avengers!
Karen: That's right, and there's our connection to relevancy. The issue starts with Iron Man (from the 'regular' Marvel universe) gathering his Avenger compatriots Capt. America, Thor, the Vision, and the Beast, to look at his dimensional transporter, where they can view other realities. He then shows them the 1950s, in a reality like our own...but with a big difference!

Karen: In this reality, FBI Agent Jimmy Woo is after the Yellow Claw. He recruits pre-Marvel characters Marvel Boy, Venus, Gorilla Man, the Human Robot, and Roy Thomas' creation, the 3-D Man (whose 1970s adventures were set in the 1950s) to help him in his cause. We also get a couple of guest appearances, by Jann of the Jungle and Namora, Sub-Mariner's cousin. (Namora is a regular in the current Atlas series.)

Karen: Can you see now why Iron Man called together his fellow assemblers? Each sees a resemblance to one of the other era's heroes: Cap with 3-D Man, Iron Man with Marvel Boy (a stretch but both utilize advanced technology), Beast with Gorilla Man, the Vision with the Human Robot, and Thor with Venus. As they watch, the team christens themselves The Avengers! And their battle cry? "Go, Avengers, Go!"

Karen: Our reality's Avengers continue to watch as the group goes up against a team of baddies that the Yellow Claw has put together to kidnap President Eisenhower. We have a Communist baddie named Electro (no relation to the Spidey foe), the Cold Warrior, Skull Face, and a dapper looking gentleman called the Great Video (OK, that name was pretty terrible!). Both the President and Jimmy Woo are caught and the Happy Days Avengers have to go to the rescue! There's some cool fight scenes here, with our good guys taking on the forces of the Claw.

Karen: Of course, our heroes manage to save the President and Woo and deal the Claw a huge defeat. Unfortunately, when all the smoke clears, Eisenhower asks the team to disband! Amusingly, he cites the concern over comic books as a force of social ill as one reason to disband! Like good Americans, the Avengers assent, and the team is no more, leaving our mainstream Avengers team to ponder what might have been.

Karen: The really fun aspect of this all is that in the current Atlas book, the characters have now gone to another alternate reality, where the team never disbanded, and in fact found Captain America, as well as inducted Iron Man, Thor, and all the others! If you haven't read either this original story, or the new Atlas stories, I would highly recommend that you pick them up. They're exciting, quirky, and some of the best-written books currently on the stands.

Doug: Awhile ago I stopped at a nice shop in Chicago and scooped up some Bronze Age goodies. I spied a copy of Teen Titans #48 (June 1977), and although I've maligned writer Bob Rozakis in my three previous reviews from this era, I figured I'd fill in one of the gaps. I'm glad I didn't spend too much on this one...When we left off issue #47, Robin and Joker's Daughter had been captured by Two-Face, and JD had announced that she was not in fact the Joker's daughter, but Two-Face's! So they tell a little origin, and ol' Harvey alternates rational/crazed while trying to decide what to do. He remarks that he was the guy behind the Heat Miser/Snow Miser goings-on in the previous issue, and that he's going to blow up both New York and Gotham to help him decide if he should go straight (whaa-aattt?). Well, Harv's bound Duela and Robin back-to-back in wooden straight chairs. While the rant goes on, Robin manages to work his way free; however, Two-Face planned for that and put some super-butt-paste on the chair so Robin can't stand. In a move that would throw my back out, the Teen Wonder begins to whirl Duela around, smacking Two-Face in the chops a couple of times. But, then they lose their balance and...

...we get an interlude to Gabriel's Horn, where the rest of the Titans are gathered. Speedy is, as usual, acting like an (you know), until Robin calls and he actually ramps it up. Robin tells him to can it, and to split into two teams and get to NYC and Gotham. However, as the Titans head out, they are attacked by a gal calling herself the Bumblebee. And using a "honey gun". I ain't makin' this up. Seriously, it is an effort to turn these pages. But, I soldier on for you, our faithful readers...

So the Bumblebee stymies Kid Flash, Wonder Girl, Speedy and Mal with an array of bug-inspired powers. Pretty slick for some girl off the street to develop technology like that. She eventually puts the four of them down with a buzz that knocks them all out. No, really. We then cut away to NYC, where Robin has arrived to stop the bomb. He's trying to convince a couple of security guards of the danger when who shows up, but Wally and Mal. Whaaa-aat? We had just seen them snoozing! But they do stop the bomb.Then we head to Gotham, where Speedy and Donna meet up with Duela. As they head to the roof to stop the second bomb, it occurs to Duela that everything thus far has been in pairs, but opposite. So they race to the basement and discover a bomb bursting through the floor! Of course, they also disable it and save the day. The story ends with Two-Face in custody (but how? We never saw him apprehended. Last we saw he was noticing that the time for the bombs was approaching, and Robin still had butt-paste on), and Duela donning the new name and costume of the Harlequin.

As it turns out, the plot wasn't bad for a Two-Face story, but it's just so goofy! It's really hard to take, like when you just groan at a bad joke -- that's what it's like. And Jose Delbo's art was just a baby-step above what Don Heck might have turned in. Pretty stiff. You can take my word for it!

Roll With the Changes: The Avengers

Doug: So, awhile ago I said that reader Andrew Wahl (of the Comics Bronze Age blog) had given me an idea concerning our ongoing look at Marvel's corner boxes, as well as the cover logos of books from both Marvel and DC. He stated that he liked the logos, as opposed to entire covers, as framing what sort of marketing techniques were being used by either company at the time. The thought that came to me was this -- what if we take a book and look at its cover evolution from the beginning through the Bronze Age? Today's fare is everyone's favorite book (well, at least those of us who hold the reins of power here at the BAB), The Avengers!

Here's the deal: the logos and corner boxes may not necessarily be from the first issue on which the change occurred. I took the liberty of going as close to the first as possible, but sometimes the next issue just had a better color scheme. So, without further ado, let's begin with Avengers #2!

Of course, we have here the original logo that would stay on the book for the first 94 issues. Right from the start, Stan began the tradition of posting the team's roll call in the corner box at the top left of the cover. Note that Jan is not pictured here.

Next, we'll see the changes in the corner boxes from #2 through #15 -- the issue right before the Kooky Quartet was chosen to replace the founding members of the team.

The logo on the left is from #4, the re-introduction of Captain America. Cap shows up in the box by issue #6, and gets a headshot by #7. The last box is a fave of mine, because it features Giant-Man in that daggone ugly helmet he was sportin' at the time.

Once the founders left, it was just Cap, Hawkeye, the Scarlet Witch, and Quicksilver. These four would remain the core of the team for the next three years. But with issue #28 (Doug's personal fave issue), Giant-Man returned to the fold in the guise of Goliath. By issue #30 he'd found a spot in the corner box, and by #33 the Wasp had joined him. After several appearances in the book by Hercules, ol' Herc won himself a spot in the corner. By issue#52, Hank had changed the color scheme of his outfit from blue and yellow to red and yellow; notice also the modification in his antennae. See, too, the different style of Wanda's headpiece (I'm sure there's a fashion-type term for that thing...). And, by #53, the team had shrunk to only four members, with T'Challa joining.

The big changes on the first two corners areT'Challa's mask (now fully covering his face), and the Vision joining what would become his corner box in about two years -- and he'd keep it for almost 100 issues. And look what we got with issue #64 -- a new logo. What do you think of the change, which is really quite a departure from what we'd seen on the first 63 issues? I guess it's OK, but I'm not sure it's an improvement. More modern, yes. But not an improvement to me. Oh, and don't miss Hawkeye's big change to his Goliath costume, as well as the headshot of Yellowjacket!

In this batch, we see that Clint has switched from the blue mask to the red one, and YJ's "wings" are gone. Wanda and Pietro return, and you might notice that the art by Sal Buscema on our first sample switches to art by his brother John on the second example. And then with issue #93 we see perhaps the most familiar corner logo in all of Marveldom -- the Vision looking pensive yet powerful. Only three issues later, "my" Avengers logo appeared for the first time. To me, this is the Avengers logo -- it's dynamic, powerful, and I love the way the "A" dominates not only the logo but cradles the Vision's image. Great, imaginative logo -- one for the ages.

The new Vision image in the corner box on #155 actually first appeared on issue #153. I really like it -- for me this was an upgrade over the previous Vision logo, but only from the standpoint that after almost 100 issues it was perhaps time for a change. And, this image showcases the Vision's powers, whereas the former showcased his personality. Next, we see a return to the roll calls that the magazine began with -- all with John Byrne art.

Logo changes again. The first is somewhat subtle, with the word "The" moving out of the "A" and to the top. Personally, I can't imagine why that's an improvement. And the logo that began on issue #236 -- you can have it. I just don't care for it. Oh, and Spider-Man again? Nope -- not an Avenger. Not ever.

New logo again, although it appears all that really happened was the word "Mighty" was added and the font was elongated. Hey, and check out that line-up! Girl power!!

Lastly, because this one's from around 1985 -- which is pushing the limits of the Bronze Age -- comes this final logo change. This one I like -- it's clean, dynamic, and I like the way the "A" and the "S" tie together. Really good logo. Probably my second favorite of our options to this point.

So there you have it -- corner boxes, logos, superstar artists (Kirby, Heck, Buscema, Buscema, Byrne...), and a fun jaunt through memory lane. And to think, it only took you around two minutes to read, but it took me over two hours to create! But my pain is your gain, effendi -- hope you enjoyed it!

Fantastic Four, anyone?