Thursday, June 19, 2014

Back When We Liked Wolverine

Karen: When I attended the Phoenix Comic Con a couple of weeks ago, I went to a panel on Wolverine that featured writers Chris Claremont and Len Wein. I mentioned some of what happened at that panel in my Phoenix Con report, but at the very end of the panel, a young girl, maybe all of 11 or 12, came to the microphone to ask the final question. She began by thanking the two men for creating her favorite super-hero. Before she could go any further, Claremont then asked her a question: why was Wolverine her favorite? The girl hesitated for only a moment before answering that, besides looking cool, she liked the way he thought, the way he responded to things and dealt with the world. It made me laugh a bit. All of us older fans had spent the last hour bemoaning how Wolverine wasn't cool any more, how he'd been ruined by needless origin stories and relentless over-exposure. But to this kid, he was still a bad-ass, a symbol of individualism and rebellion.

Karen: After the con, I kept thinking about this. I tried to remember what it was like when I really did like Wolverine. It seems like it was so long ago. His over-exposure began way back in the 80s and has only snowballed since. Along with the runt appearing in practically every book Marvel put out, his powers also took a huge leap up; the guy who was knocked out by Moses Magnum was now surviving nuclear explosions, and being torn in half by the Hulk. To top it all off, every ounce of mystery was stripped from the character -every detail of his life was laid out, and it seemed like he knew every character in the Marvel U from his past life as a secret agent, or ninja, or whatever. It was all too much.

Karen: But there was a time that I liked Wolverine! I just had to dig deep. At the con, the panelists had been asked at what point did they realize Wolverine was something special, becoming a star. Two moments came to mind for me instantly. The first was from X-Men #98 (Apr 1976), when Banshee, Jean Grey, and Wolverine had been captured by Sentinels and taken to a space station. Wolverine breaks free, and for the first time, we see him without his costume -and he pops his claws. Banshee stammers, "Yer claws, laddie...Lord above, they're a part of you -we -I -didn't know!" Wolverine calmly responds, "Why should you, Irish? None of your business." I think I was as stunned as Banshee!  But I was also fascinated. I don't think it had even occurred to me that Wolverine's claws were anything but a part of his suit. At that point in time, it was pretty shocking, having a hero who had real claws -not little claws on the ends of his fingers but enormous metallic blades shooting out of his arms! Non-lethal attacks were still the rule of thumb, and we still had heroes like the Black Knight, Swordsman, and Valkyrie who always proclaimed they were using "the flat of (their) sword" on their opponents. But you never heard any such proclamation from Wolverine! And his lethal weapons were a part of him. I'm sure I couldn't verbalize why this was so amazing to me when I was 12 or so, but it was.

Karen: The second moment when I really gained an appreciation for Wolverine was in X-Men #133 (May 1980) -although the final panel of the previous issue, showing an angry Wolverine rising out of the sewer, vowing vengeance on the Hellfire Club, is the indelible image from that storyline. The X-Men had been captured by the Hellfire Club and Wolverine was assumed dead, wiped out early in the fight. But the foul-tempered Canadian wasn't that easy to get rid of. He returned and tore through a bunch of Hellfire goons like they were nothing. But it's his fire, his indomitable spirit, that really caught my attention. Wolverine refused to be beaten, and despite his limited powers -remember, he wasn't godlike back in 1980! - he was ready to take on the entire Hellfire Club. That attitude was very appealing.It's a quality I like in any number of characters (Ben Grimm has it too, although he's more never-say-die rather than blood-thirsty), but Wolverine, before he was invincible and unstoppable, played this part very well. He was the underdog rebel who didn't care about the odds.

Karen: Maybe that's the key, the reason why that 12 year old girl at the panel likes Wolverine, and the reason my 12 year old self liked him so many years ago. Maybe at his core, the character still represents defiance and individuality, despite all the twists and turns he has taken in 40 years. It's easy to criticize what's been done with him from a vantage point that spans his entire career, but when you break him down to his essence, perhaps he is still that scruffy outcast, the one who never quite fits in with everyone else, and seems just a little dangerous. What can't be denied is that Wolverine is a true original, a cool and intriguing character, and that's proven by his popularity and longevity. Even if those of us in the older  generation aren't always pleased with the changes that have been made...

Karen: Let's open the floor now. What are your earliest memories about Wolverine, early impressions and overall thoughts on the character?


Abe Lucas said...

When I was a kid, I thought kids liked Wolverine because he had claws. It's that simple. I was the dope who liked Cyclops because I related to his being essentially an orphan and his brooding nature, though at the time I never really thought about *why* I liked Cyke so much; it also may have been because he never, ever backed down from Wolverine's often impulsive behavior.

Fred W. Hill said...

I more identified with Cyclops as well. I have Wolverine's first appearance, having gotten those Hulk issues for cover price when they were brand new. Had no idea that Wolverine would become a super-star within the next 10 years. I enjoyed those early years of the New X-Men, as well as Claremont & Miller's Wolverine mini-series, but I never regarded Wolvie as a favorite character. But then by about the time Wolverine started skyrocketing in popularity, I'd stopped collecting comics based on characters but more based on the writers/artists and the quality of their work.

Doug said...

I was surprised that the moviemakers went with the bone claws in the recent Days of Future Past film. I've not read any of those stories, and don't really get that idea anyway. The healing factor and his tracking prowess are Wolverine's mutant abilities, not bone claws. Am I wrong?

I think there are two moments when I was most enthralled by Wolverine. The first was in X-Men #100 when they are on the space shuttle fighting the X-Sentinel doppelgangers. Logan "smells out" the Jean Sentinel and cuts "her" open, to the horror of everyone looking. That was a big "Whoa!" moment for me. But to contrast that, in X-Men #109 (correct me) when the team is out in the woods for a picnic, Storm dresses down Wolverine for "hunting" - for needlessly killing. Wolverine bristles and explains (in his own brusque way) to her that in his mind, hunting is being able to get close enough to a doe to touch her on the hind quarters without spooking her first.

But as I was back into comics a few years and saw that Wolverine was going to be the lead feature in the new Marvel Comics Presents anthology, I knew something was amiss. And then when he got his solo book... But the topper for me was the one-off in the pages of X-Men where it was revealed that Wolverine and the Black Widow had had an adventure with Captain America... during WWII!


Edo Bosnar said...

Cyclops is still my favorite X-man, and part of the reason is - as C.K. notes - he never took crap from Wolverine and Wolverine grudgingly respected him for it.

And although Wolverine was probably my least favorite X-man (seriously, I liked Colossus, Nightcrawler and pre-punk-biker-chick Storm much more), I still liked him, because he had his place in the team. I loved it when he was a little bit psycho, with a tendency to go on beserker rampages, so that the rest of the team was always a bit on edge around him. And man, I loved that issue Karen mentions, when he just tore through the Hellfire Club's headquarters.
I actually think I started to sort of dislike him when that first mini-series came out. I think that was the beginning of Wolverine as Marvel's ultimate cool-guy and superstar. And I'm glad I missed all that needless elaboration into his origins and back-story. What made Wolverine so cool to me was the fact that he was a) kind of a psycho, and b) mysterious.

Doug said...

I liked Cyclops, too, early on. But Colossus may have been my favorite X-Man. Another of the truly great costume designs by Dave Cockrum!


Murray said...

Well, I think the first spark of attraction to Wolverine came because of patriotism. A Canadian superhero who didn't have a maple leaf on his chest! Sure, "wolverine" had Great White North overtones, but in a far subtler way than most non-American heroes.

Beyond that, Karen touches on the key "shock" elements that drew my attention to Wolverine. But I never loved the character. He did get slotted into my second tier of "credibility and respect" though. He shares that tier with chaps like Batman and Captain America. Characters I don't enjoy enough to seek out their solo titles and appearances, but when they show up in the comics I do collect, I sit up straight with a hopeful "this should be good!" (the element of doubt comes, of course, whether the artist/writer has the chops...)

I hate the bone claws. I keep wincing, waiting for them to snap off.

dbutler16 said...

At one point, Wolverine was possibly my favorite superhero. Like Karen, X-Men #133 was a "hello" point for me. He was definitely a different kind of superhero, somebody who did his own thing, and didn't always play well with others. He had an attitude, back before every superhero had an attitude, and it was cool back then. Other than being short, another reason I identified with Wolvie was because he was a loner. As far as I'm concerned, Wolverine has become a parody of himself over the past 20 years. When I think of Wolverine, I try to stop in the mid-80's and just forget everything that has gone on since then, lest it spoil my enjoyment of this once cool character.

Anonymous said...

I liked Wolverine because he was short! He was a little guy, tough, mean and fearless. And in the beginning, as the layers were added, he became better. I mean, come on, the claws were INSIDE of him. Not like Cap's shield or Thor's hammer or even Spidey's web shooters, his claws were IN FREAKING SIDE OF HIM.

I think Karen made the comment during her initial review that Claremont said Byrne made Wolverine the star. Claremont had always envisioned Colossus as the team's star. You can start to see the layers being added to Wolverine. If you look at the panels from the Space Station story, where he breaks out when Lang slaps Jean, notice how they write Wolverine's speech pattern, all the "ya's". Then we get his animal senses as part of the package. His healing factor comes into play. Peek at the end of the Hellfire story. Notice how the "ya's" are gone.

I recently re-read issue 143, the Christmas issue where Kitty takes on the N'Garai demon. Logan is dressed in a suit, he's taking Mariko out and just loses it when Kurt Bamf's in to steal a Christmas kiss from Lady Mariko.

There is no doubt that the onion eventually had too many layers. But Logan was a really cool character.

The Prowler (long ago became a caricature of a man).

PS Did I miss the Days of Future Past spoiled post?

david_b said...

As an outsider looking in (non-fan), I tend to agree with everything said. I typically leaned towards Cyke as the stoic leader when asked, but I do recall being irked with Logan when I restarted collecting.

Since leaving around '76, Wolvie was barely known character (to me anyways..), but during my absence, he rose to become one of Marvel's premiere characters, and I kept thinking, 'But what about Thor, Ironman, DD, Cap, FF, etc..? Who IS this upstart..?' Luckily my college roomie was a huge Wolvie fan so he filled me in quickly. Perhaps the only time I liked him was as a 'Secret Wars' action figure during his brown/tan phase.

As with nearly everything, over-exposure kills characters, much like the SW prequels.

It's just greed winning out over discreetness. Your imagination will always be the best.

Anonymous said...

Doug, Wolverine has bone claws because he lost his adamantium ones in the movie "The Wolverine" - and happy birthday for tomorrow !

Doug said...

Thank you, x2, Colin!

So in the comics (and in that movie), were the adamantium claws we knew in the Bronze Age retconned such that he was born with bone claws and they were later laced with adamantium? I've read Barry Windsor-Smith's Weapon X trade, but it was many years ago.


Doug said...

Hey, everyone --

Just a general comment playing off something Prowler said a few days ago.

As this is our anniversary week, I just want to again throw out a big "you all are swell" to the masses. Go back to the main page and scroll down, noticing how many comments we've had on posts from the past couple of weeks. This has been a very vibrant period here on the BAB, and we are very gracious for your time each day.


Karen said...

I wonder if Wolverine was anyone's favorite X-man at the start! He wasn't mine -that would have been Nightcrawler and Cyclops. Looking at early letters pages, he wasn't too popular with the masses either. But boy did he take off.

While I grew to really like the character, mainly because of his unbreakable spirit, I've always had a problem with the killing. it just goes against everything I believe a super-hero should be. Wolverine struggling to hold back his baser impulses is a great story hook to me; him going around carving people up willy nilly is not. But that's become pretty much his accepted gig now. When Bendis had Iron Man tell Cap they needed Wolverine in the Avengers basically because he would kill folks and they could keep their hands clean, and Cap reluctantly agreed, I wanted to slap the entire editorial staff at Marvel. That's emblematic of what's wrong with comics now right there, but probably off-topic for this discussion.

William Preston said...

Some spoilers in this comment that follows up on the bone claw question:

The bone claws were retconned in long after I stopped reading X-Men comics. (But then, it wasn't clear for a long time that the adamantium-laced skeleton wasn't natural, as I recall, so they were always rethinking Wolverine's background.)

Stryker gives him metal claws sometime prior to the first X-movie, though the timeline is ambiguous.

In the latest Wolverine movie, the metal claws are destroyed and, lo and behold, he's still got the bone claws tucked away in there--which makes very little sense.

How, then, does he have metal ones in DoFP's 2020? Unexplained (and, most likely, just ignored).

And, since Stryker doesn't have possession of Wolvie at the end of DoFP, how then will get adamantium claws in the revised timeline? Because God knows this version of Wolverine wouldn't submit himself to such torture.

The new movie was supposed to smooth over some problems, but it created many, many more.

William Preston said...

As for how much I liked him:

I liked him in his role as a foil for other characters I liked more: Scott, Kurt, Peter. Nightcrawler was my favorite in those early days.

Icecypher said...

I think Wolverine is "artificially" different and rebellious. It seems as if he is now that way just because writers (or editors) found out that is what people like.

I also think many people like all this exaggerated attitude just because they cannot be like that. He is a loner who does his own thing, yet I have known many of his fans who go through their lives doing whatever the group wants, and some others who even try to make their lives resemble Logan's, use his hairstyle and try to emulate his attitude, which would be ironic if they do it to be "rebellious" and "different" from everyone else...

I have heard people say they like how he always keeps fighting. That is something I personally admire of Captain America, but Wolverine is even more immortal each day. Sure, it must hurt, but knowing he will be perfectly fine afterwards and he will save his friends minimize his "sacrifices".

I liked "The Wolverine" movie because he could be hurt (although we knew he would not die). I wish he were vulnerable in the comics and never had gotten as out of control as he did, power-wise. I do not understand how people do not think that it is very ridiculous in some of the extreme cases.

Needing time to heal worked before. I know they need him to insta-heal now so he can keep appearing everywhere, but they should keep it at some point before real immortality.

To that girl who likes him, I would try to expose her to Hawkeye. Now there is a hero who really goes for individualism and rebellion, and also personal growth.

Anonymous said...

Yeah, even back in those early issues you could tell Wolverine was gonna be a star. His pyscho, animalistic nature makes him the quintessential antihero, a trait very popular with readers. Think of other massively popular antiheroes like Conan and the Punisher, two other characters who are portrayed as essentially good guys even though they are killing machines.

It's not a big surprise Byrne favoured Wolverine given their shared Canadian roots. I'm actually more surprised Doug thought Colossus would be the breakout star of this team! I'm with the late all new X-men co-creator Dave Cockrum - I've always liked Nightcrawler more.

So, it's no surprise our little girl likes Wolvie, as do many millions of other fans. As I've mentioned many times before though,I think Logan's been too overexposed; in my opinion, he was much more appealing as a mysterious loner with a psychotic streak.

Don't even get me started on Wolvie being in the Avengers!

- Mike 'Bamf!' from Trinidad & Tobago.

Anonymous said...

Wolvie's role in the early "all new, all different" era was really the same role the Thing played in the FF (malcontent, fighting with the team leader), so even when I was 11 years old I didn't think his "attitude" was all that unique, new or special.

That being said, however, I agree with Karen about #133. That's the issue where my friends and I went "WHOA!!"

I want to mention, too, as a bridge between #99 and #133, the scene in #116 when he iced Garrok's guard in the Savage Land. Even though he did it off panel, Kurt's and Ororo's reactions left no doubt as to what happened. That was also a big moment in making him a star.

Anonymous said...

I can't believe so many people list Cyclops as their favorite. I can't stand that guy.

I liked Wolverine some as a kid, but he was never my all-time favorite - though I did love his first limited series, mostly he was best as a foil within the ensemble.

Karen, we talked about that Hellfire Club scene in part one of our overview of "Days of Future Past", but I cannot personally think of the first time Wolverine impressed me.

I did love him in X-Men #205 - a great in media res story that features Katie Power from Power Pack and as far as I was concerned the first appearance of Lady Deathstrike (though it turned out it wasn't)

Dr. Oyola said...

That "anonymous" isn't any ole mouse! It's me!

J.A. Morris said...

I liked best during the latter stages of the Claremont/Byrne/Austin issues, when he and Nightcrawler were buddies.

I liked Logan because he was short but not afraid to fight. Which sort of describes the younger version of me.

But there's just something inherently wrong about Wolverine being 150 years old and immortal.

Karen said...

I think Wolverine really appeals to teens because of the rebellious attitude. Throw in the living weapon aspect, and it just gets juicier.

Osvaldo, I know Cyclops is a complete a-hole now (it really started after Jean died -the first time), but back in the beginning, he was a great character, a great leader. He was an angsty guy, always worried about taking care of his team. he had responsibility heaped on him at an early age and did his best. Even with the original X-Men, he was a man alone, both because of his role and his dangerous powers.

The bone claws are indeed a dumb idea. One of the many they added onto Wolverine.

To clarify, I said that Len Wein intended for Colossus to be the star of X-Men. Don't blame Doug! Poor Colossus. he really got shuffled to the background.

Edo Bosnar said...

Yeah, after Cyclops, I liked Colossus the best, and I really noticed how he kept becoming more and more a second stringer as Wolverine became increasingly popular.
To Karen's defense of Cyclops, I would also add that he was also just the team's natural leader and it's heart and soul, really, more so than Prof. X. And he was master tactician and strategist, getting the team out of all kinds of jams, and sometimes just taking care of business all by himself: like when he basically fought back Magneto alone after the latter had wiped the floor with the rest of the X-men; or in ish #175, when he was attacked by all of the X-men because Mastermind tricked them into thinking he was Dark Phoenix, and he beat them pretty easily.
Although I didn't like the idea of him marrying a Jean clone, I thought Cyclops was ruined when Jean was brought back. Yet another reason I think she should have JUST. STAYED. DEAD.

Humanbelly said...

Last panel of Hulk #180; Hulk #181; first couple of panels of #182-- in the similar original costume, but w/ a less-impressive (kinda silly-looking, in fact) mask/head-piece. Boy, he didn't read at all like the "What I do ain't pretty, bub-" grouse that we eventually came to know and love. The key element in #181 that made him a shade darker than your run-of-the-mill generic hero is that over the course of the three-way battle w/ the Wendigo, he completely played up on the Hulk's naive belief that the two of them had suddenly become friends to team up against the (much worse) monster-- only the attack the Hulk (his original mission) during a quiet moment once the Wendigo had been defeated. Something less than a noble savage, so to speak.

Me, I get the bone claws. The claws are an osteomorphic (heh--just made that up!) mutation, which become adamantium when his skeleton's replaced. Was that indeed a retcon for the character? In a way, I almost find that more plausible (in this kind of world) than having them somehow be cybernetically implanted all up in his forearms. Mind you, either way is ludicrous, o' course.

Wolverine started to tarnish for me a bit when he became ninja-fied, but I still stuck with him. WEAPON X may have become the point where I'd had enough, though. Just too much backstory. . . and it all seemed very pointless, really. And then he quickly became a parody of himself, and EVERYONE got to use him, and write him any way they saw fit. HAVOK & WOLVERINE, anyone? Anybody remember that dog? Or the way McFarlane used him in SPIDERMAN (completely different speech patterns)? The height of hypocrisy is that this tough-guy, anti-social, prickly loner is now somehow the most sought-after, in-demand team member on the planet. I mean, Spidey's considered too much a "loner" type, buy Wolvie ISN'T??



William said...

My earliest impression that made me think that Wolverine was a cool character probably came first in X-Men #116. The X-Men are in the Savage Land with Kazar when they are attacked by some men riding flying dinosaurs. When the battle is over, Kazar and several of the X-Men are taken captive. The only one's that aren't are Nightcrawler, Storm, and Wolverine. Zabu (Kazar's pet sabertooth) is also left behind. Wolverine walks right up to him and pets him on the head and he and Zabu have a bonding moment. I thought it was cool that Wolvie had such a special rapport with wild animals. Then he, Storm, and Nightcrawler set out to rescue their friends with Wolverine leading the way. It was all extremely cool to my 12 year old mind.

Another early "Wolverine is so cool!" memory comes from X-Men #121. After the X-Men have a knock down, drag out fight with Alpha Flight, they are forced to turn Wolverine over to the Canadian government. He is put in a supposedly inescapable cage, and driven away in an armored truck. Later, we see the X-Men aboard a plane headed for America. But at the same time they are making plans to go back and rescue Wolverine, however there's no need because he's already escaped and is on board the plane. A shocked Cyclops asks him how it's possible, and Wolvie calmly explains "The cage ain't been built that can hold me." Too cool.

Now, about Wolvie's (uhg) bone claws. If you were to ask me, "Bill what cheap writing device do you loathe the most?" I would quickly answer "The ret-con!" I despise ret-cons because they almost never make anything better, only worse. Wolverine's "Origin" and his subsequent bone claws are a prime example of this. The bone claws first made their appearance in the 1990's after Magneto sucked all the adamantium out of Logan's body. Sometime after that it was revealed that Wolverine's claws were more a part of him than anyone ever knew. The bone claws stuck around for a long time until Wolvie eventually got his adamantium back. It was later revealed in Wolverine's ret-conned "Origin" story that he first popped his claws when he was about 12 years old, and he promptly used them to murder his biological father (whom he thought had murdered his father)… it's complicated.

I hate the bone claws because they don't make any sense. When they are coated with adamantium they are either thin and round, or thin and flat, and they are always smooth. However when they are bare boned, they are all really thick and craggy. How's that work?

Also, the bone claws are subject to Logan's healing factor the same as any other natural part of his body. Which explains how they quickly grew back after they were cut off by the Silver Samurai in the last Wolverine movie.

Anonymous said...

For me, it may be as simple as OVER-EXPOSURE! Just like when you first heard a catchy song (I like(d) Blurred Lines, for instance......then they played it over and over, and on commercials and at sporting events, etc etc...then you just get sick of it. I'm NOT an ADELE fan, but I'm sure anybody who likes/liked her knows what I mean.

Also, I often compare Wolverine to another favorite of mine, BOBA FETT. It was the MYSTERY of Logan and Boba Fett thsat made them cool. After you find out the background, or see them as children....I dunno, it just kills it.

MY Wolverine drank beer, smoked cigars, was a bad-ass, had a mysterious past, and wore that great BROWN/ORANGE costume with the RED belt. But alas, that was 25-30 years ago.


Anonymous said...

Past tense is right. I can't stand that character any more.
Now he's invincible. Sheesh.
My favorite Wolverine story was the one where the Punisher burned his face off, shot his marbles off, and ran over him with a steam roller. And I don't much like the Punisher either. It's just that I can't stand Wolverine anymore.

Pat Henry said...

About the bone claws thing... in the film, Wolverine is inserted into his earlier self and we get to see a very young Stryker... too young to head up a the Weapon X program that supposedly gave Logan his adamantium advantage. So I think the film is pretty darn consistent, and it was a pleasure to see this attention to that detail.

And it was a kick to see a much weakened, unaugmented Wolverine get his keister kicked. He was nowhere near as tough in 1973 as 2003.

As for how he got his admantium back in DoFP future, I put that in the category of Prof X mysteriously back in his body, doing fine after being disintegrated in X-3.

My guess is, in the comics they retconned the bone claw thing because without that his actual innate mutant powers were pretty lame. Enhanced senses and a healing factor... so he would know when the Blob was coming up behind him to knock him across the room.

Humanbelly said...

Even though I do buy Wolvie's claws being an original, organic part of hisself, I do want to agree wholeheartedly w/ William's problem in how the "bone" claws were usually drawn. That whole lumpy, craggy motif that some genius came up with clearly had everything to do with a misguided artist's idea of what would look kewl, and nothing at all with the fact-based roots from which solid fantasy must sprout.

Other than in the Elephant Man's skeleton, has anyone ever seen bones that look like that?? Bones are SMOOTH AND CLEAN! Maybe not a factory-finish-- but certainly sleak. Those bone claws always looked diseased to me, which of course made them seem subtly fragile, y'know? Man, and I hate to even bring this up, but-- aren't claws actually, like, keratin-based structures? Like hair and fingernails? And hooves? I'm pretty sure that naturally-retractable claws on ANY animal aren't ever going to be bone-based, so. . . wow. . . the adamantium never should have successfully taken to them in the first place. Or else it should have laced his hair as well (Savage Sideburns o' Certain Death!).

Still, though, speaking to the perceived break-ability of said bone-claws: when HBSon was a little tyke and INCREDIBLY into paleontology, we got him an acrylic cast of the foot-claw of a Therizinosaurus. About the size and shape of Logan's, actually-- a beautiful 14" natural scythe that could be used to hack down and/or uproot small trees. I'm pretty sure even our cast could go through the sheet metal of the car roof. . .


Stephen said...

My favorite of the "All-New All-Different" was Nightcrawler - I thought Cockrum did a great job with his design and he actually looked like a "freak" and an outcast from society - yet he never let his appearance define him and took joy in his powers and abilities. I also thought the "Bamf!" teleportation image was pretty cool.

As for Wolverine, I never really much liked the character. I suppose my favorite "cool" Wolverine moment was actually from the X-MEN/NEW TEEN TITANS crossover with the splash panel with the members of each team standing across from, and reacting to each other, and Wolverine (referring to Raven) is thinking "Huh. I scare the bird lady. Wonder why?"

Dr. Oyola said...

RE: Cyclops

I guess I just have never liked goody-two-shoes type. He always struck me as misguidedly righteous (his current state in Marvel comics makes sense to me and actually makes him more interesting, actually - at least in theory - I don't read 'em).

However, I will give you that since I did not start reading X-Men until after Jean Grey died, I have a different perspective. To me, Storm is the best X-Men leader and my favorite X-Men are Kitty and Rogue! (though I do like Colossus, Beast and Nightcrawler, too)

Humanbelly said...

Boy, Cyke seems to be a love-'im-or-hate-'im character, doesn't he? I've always liked him an awful lot, although one REALLY wanted to see him loosen up at some point through the years. But I don't think I could have picked a favorite from that All New line-up. The ones that I didn't care for- Sunfire & Thunderbird- were very quickly retired, and I was totally on-board w/ everyone else and found them interesting and captivating-- it was truly a gestalt-team.


Joseph said...

I first learned of Wolverine in a black & white paperback version of GS X-Men #1 that I got for my 12th birthday - a period when I was out of comic reading. I held on to it and when I got back into comics and read What If #31 (what if wolvie killed the Hulk) I revisited the book. Shortly after that was Contest of Champions and then the Claremont/Miller limited series, at which point I was hooked.

Yes, he's totally overexposed and at times a caricature of the original character (not unlike Jack Nicholson) and I completely understand any distaste people have, but I still love a good Wolverine story, bub.

Abe Lucas said...

"I first learned of Wolverine in a black & white paperback version of GS X-Men #1 that I got for my 12th birthday."

I also read that B&W paperback when I was 12, which included UXM #117 as its second story. I borrowed it from my best friend's older sister and I read that thing dozens of times. I was already an X-Men reader by that time but those back issues of the Claremont-Cockrum/Claremont-Byrne (and Len Wein)run were near-impossible to find, not to mention so expensive, so that paperback was crucial in my early X-Men days.

Has BAB already done a post on non-floppy comic introductions? I wouldn't include movies or cartoons in those introductions, just the books.

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