The Origin of Captain America -- 1966 Style!

Doug: About two months ago, everyone had Thor-on-the-brain; this coming weekend it will be the Star-Spangled Avenger dominating our thoughts! Enjoy this little slice of Marvel history, from the Marvel Super-Heroes cartoon that aired back in my birth year -- 1966! And how about that theme song?

What Are the Elements of a Good Comic Book Cover?

Doug: We've done a lot of cover discussing around these parts. We've looked at favorite covers, cover logos, the corner boxes on Bronze Age Marvels, etc. But I'd like to zero in on what makes a comic cover memorable. So today we'll have that discussion. You are charged with putting into words why certain covers were lovable to you, and why others seem forgettable. As an extension, were there elements of those favorite covers that became a trend for you -- a similar presentation really caught your eye? To help spur your thinking, consider some of the following cover elements, and then I'll post a few personal favorites as food for thought.

• Color scheme
• Figural lay-out
• Speech/thought balloons...
• ...or, the absence of speech/thought balloons
• Call-out boxes
• Relevance to the inside story
• Simplicity vs. a whole lot going on

Doug: This one probably makes a lot of people's "favorites" list. Marvel's two iconic monsters racing headlong into each other... It's on mine because I love the black background and the way it makes the colored figures pop. That the Hulk's right hand partially obscures the corner box really gives the cover a 3D feel. Really, the only improvement I'd make is the removal of the text. Seriously... who would pick this up and need that prompting? Duh. It's just a great seller in all its simplicity.

Doug: My apologies in advance for the poor reproduction here -- I couldn't find an image (granted, I didn't look too terribly hard) that I loved (UPDATE - as of May 28 2020, we have a nice, slick image! -Doug). A bit out of our Bronze Age range, but one of the most stunning covers of all time. This one's much more complex than the previous example. The 3-dimensional appearance of Havok racing toward the reader, the drama on the faces of the X-Men, and the concentric circles make this an amazing visual experience. Those circles really draw me in -- this cover, even more than the previous sample, displays a depth in the art. The call-out box is OK, but again -- I don't need it. Even as this was on the spinner racks, I don't think it would have been a selling point. Any youngster should have wanted to snatch this up on its other merits, and there are many.

Doug: I'll leave you with this last fave. Again, there is very little text, and in this case the title in quotes, "Challenge of the Man-Bat!" is OK, because this is a new character. I love the detail of the city-scape, and the giant images of Batman and Man-Bat are really powerful and give off a "this is going to be epic" feel. The large full moon draws your eye and highlights the underside of our antagonists. You could argue that the book's cover logo also gives off a bit of a moon-like aura; I love the bright yellow against the midnight blue background of the main image. And sticking to the depth-theme, the angle of Batman's cape in the foreground easily sets the Man-Bat back a few paces from the reader. This cover is just a winner through and through.

Savages and Sun Gods

Astonishing Tales #4 (Feb. 1970)"The Sun God!"
Writer: Gerry Conway
Artist: Barry Smith
Inker: Sam Grainger

Karen: Way back in February of last year, I reviewed Astonishing Tales 3 (see it here). I've finally acquired the following issues and decided to read and review them. I'll just be looking at the Ka-Zar portion of this split comic. Not that I don't like Dr. Doom, but I find the Ka-Zar tale more interesting. It would be great if Marvel would collect these stories in a TPB. It would be worth it for the early Barry Smith art alone.

Karen: The mad priestess Zaladane has brought war to the Savage Land. Flying in on pterodactyls, she and her people reign fire on the peaceful green-skinned Vala-Kuri people. Ka-Zar is miles away and needs some speedy transportation. He wrestles down a unicorn(!!) and heads off for the city, leaving behind his buddy Tongah and Garokk, the petrified man, who appears to be made of stone; unlike Stone Boy of the Legion of Substitute Heroes, Garokk is quite mobile. In turn, Tongah leaves Garokk, who is left to muse about youth abandoning age and age burying youth. He's that kinda guy.

Karen: Zaladane and her forces are wreaking havoc on the poor Vala Kuri, who have neither the means nor desire to fight back. But along comes an enraged Ka-Zar, who launches himself at one of the pterodactyl riders, bringing man and beast down to the ground. He quickly punches out the rider and takes his flaming device, while Zabu works on the dinosaur. Ka-Zar also waxes a little philosophical here - surely the very young Gerry Conway expressing himself. I've noticed that his early stories seem much more like he's writing a novel rather than a comic.

Karen: In the meantime Garokk has reached the Sun God shrine where he was first transformed. He reaches out to touch it and there is a strange energy enveloping him. A very bizarre-looking Tyrannosaurus Rex comes lurching towards him, and he blasts it away. This was a well-composed sequence by Smith. While Ka-Zar and newly arrived friend Tongah face down Zaladane, a giant fiery head appears in the sky -it is Garokk, now completely changed into the Sun God. He demands an end to the fighting and uses his powers (apparently pretty god-like ones) to destroy all the fire-blasting weapons. The invaders stop attacking -all that is but Zaladane, who is infuriated by this development. She sweeps down and grabs Ka-Zar in her mount's talons and flies off with him! Can you say, to be continued?

Karen: This was a real rip-snorting yarn. I've always liked the Savage Land. It has so many possibilities. Gerry Conway does a nice job here of pacing the story. Although the unicorn seemed fairly out of place, I have to say. I wonder if that was his idea, or Smith's? But otherwise, we have all the elements -the hero, the evil queen, the wizard/god -that make this a classic tale of fantasy- adventure.
Karen: It's really fun to look at this early work of Barry Smith. It's instantly recognizable, but it's also clearly still Smith learning his craft. He has a gift for portraying the fantastic, but at times his figures and especially faces are a bit off. The T-Rex mentioned earlier is a good example of this; it looks almost more-bug-like than reptilian. But Smith still has a very appealing style which shows wonderful flashes of the brilliance he would eventually achieve.

Masks of our Fathers

Karen: We don't talk much about current comic books here at BAB, because we're focused on the books we dug in the past. But I can't help but notice what DC is now doing with their line. Soon, they'll be renumbering all their titles, starting at number 1, and there will be changes to the characters and the history of the DCU. It sounds like another restart that isn't a restart, in the same way that some books and characters were sort of rebooted after the original Crisis and some weren't. We all know how well that worked out. To me, it feels like DC is desperate to find some path to topping Marvel in sales. I have my doubts whether this will work, but time will tell.

The thing that surprised and disturbed me the most however, was to read that Superman will now once again be the first super-hero -which means that all those heroes from WWII, the JSA and others, no longer existed. There isn't even a JSA title announced. I've always thought that the multi-generational aspect of the DC universe was appealing -and also set it apart from Marvel. With the JSA, JLA, and the Teen Titans, we had three generations of heroes all co-existing. There was an aspect of passing the baton, of the older generation helping to spur on the next . I for one liked that. I liked the Jay Garrick Flash meeting up with the Barry Allen Flash. Or Alan Scott's Green Lantern teaming with Hal Jordan. Heck, I even liked it back when there were two Supermen, two Batmen, etc! Of course, that was also back when the JSA was in a different reality...

I'm wondering if these characters are being shelved because DC thinks its too confusing for readers? DC hasn't said exactly what they are doing with these characters (not anywhere that I've read anyway) although Dan Didio said they will be "resting the JSA concept", whatever that means.

I'd like to hear your thoughts, how do you feel about DC losing the multi-generational concept that has been around so long? Or if you'd like, comment in general about DC's plans.

Marvel and DC: Side-by-Side in 1969

1969

Doug: You've reached the end of a long journey -- six months of Side-by-Sides! It's been quite a bit of fun, seeing what the Big Two published from 1962 all the way to 1985. I know I've been surprised at times at the ebb and flow of big introductions, creator mobility, and general butt-spanking that's gone on. We hope you've had fun, too. The resource books we've used, DC Comics: Year by Year and the Marvel Chronicle certainly have their faults, but I'd recommend them to anyone's library. The year 1969 is sort of a segue way to the Bronze Age, and I think you'll find quite a bit of Bronze Age goodness floating around in this post. In the outside world, the two really big events were the moon landing by the Apollo 11 astronauts in July, followed a month later by Woodstock. 1969 was also the year Richard Nixon promoted the "Vietnamization" of the Vietnam War. Additionally, Elvis began recording for his "comeback" and John Lennon and Yoko Ono held their "bed-in" for peace in Quebec. The Jackson 5 appeared on the Ed Sullivan Show, and at the movies you could have seen one of Doug's all-time faves, Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, as well as A Boy Named Charlie Brown and the 6th Bond movie On Her Majesty's Secret Service.

Karen: An interesting, exciting year in the real world. I was only a wee one when the moon landing happened, but I can recall the tremendous pride people felt in that achievement. But on to the comics!

Doug: Although just three at the time, I can recall watching the moon landing on television. Probably my earliest memory.
Doug: The only entry in the DC book for the first quarter is The Witching Hour #1. Now again, I'm not a horror comics fan, and wouldn't have bought this, but check out the list of creators: Alex Toth, Neal Adams, and Denny O'Neil, among others. Wow... Over at Marvel, Yellowjacket and the Wasp got themselves hitched in Avengers #60, under a fantastic floating heads cover by Big John Buscema. January also gave us the first appearance of Arnold Drake's space team from the future -- the Guardians of the Galaxy, in Marvel Super-Heroes #18. The boys were drawn at that time by the recently departed Gene Colan. Captain America #110 saw the first appearance of Madame Hydra, later to be known as the Viper, and also featured Rick Jones' debut as the new Bucky. In March, Dr. Strange got his super-hero suit with the full facemask (Dr. Strange #177), and Alex Summers was introduced in X-Men #54 -- and wouldn't he get some cool duds a few issues hence? Whoa, hey, wait -- one more minor detail from Marvel's first quarter: A dude named Galactus had his origin presented in Mighty Thor #162. No big deal...

Karen: Those are some great books. The Galactus stories in Thor were wonderful, another reason that title was an important one to read in the 60s. I have to say, it might not have lasted long, but I actually liked Dr. Strange's full-face mask -it made him more mysterious, sort of like Dr. Fate.
Doug: In the spring, DC continued their mission of expanding genres (especially into the realm of horror) with April's House of Mystery #179. This book is significant as the lead story, "The Man Who Murdered Himself" was Marv Wolfman's first script in the genre; of course he'd define the post-Code horror book a few years later during his tenure as the scribe on Marvel's Tomb of Dracula. In Superman #216, the Man of Steel fought in the Vietnam War. While Robert Kanigher's script did not contain any moralizing or political commentary, it did feature DC dealing with a contemporary conflict; prior war stories from the company had mainly focused on the two World Wars. Also in May, J'onn J'onzz resigned from the JLA after his people were killed on Mars, in Justice League of America #71. Denny O'Neil and Dick Dillin did the creative work on that one. June's The Phantom Stranger #1 brought the character back to the DCU after a 16-year hiatus.

Karen: DC did seem to have a number of anthology-style horror books, something that never seemed to catch on at Marvel (despite Steranko's work on Tower of Shadows). The Superman story shows that DC was moving towards a more modern style of comic.

Doug: Over at the House of Ideas, Stan Lee decided that if Millie the Model was still relevant, why not give her a spin-off title? You know that his decision was mainly based on the new distribution deal that Marvel had, where they could publish as many titles each month as they wanted -- this was a ploy to crowd DC off the store shelves. Mad About Millie #1 was created by Stan Goldberg, who would later move on to Archie. Millie's friend, Chili, got her own self-titled number one a month later. And Stan and John Romita introduced Marvel's second crime lord when Silvermane made his bow in Amazing Spider-Man #73.

Karen: So we got two Millie spin-offs instead of say, oh I don't know, maybe an Ant-Man and Wasp book, or Black Panther??? Or any other super-hero?
Doug: The third quarter was a good one at Marvel with a key 1st appearance right off the bat in July -- not of a person, but of a thing. Roy Thomas created the alloy known as adamantium in Avengers #66; this is the indestructible metal that would be laced to Wolverine's skeleton in the 1970's. In September, seeking a way around the Comics Code Authority's prohibition of werewolves, Thomas and artist Neal Adams instead created a were-pterodactyl when they introduced Sauron in X-Men #60. In September Marvel chose also to re-enter the horror market and published Tower of Shadows #1; the creator-list on that one included Jim Steranko, Johnny Craig, John Buscema, and Don Heck. Not bad... Stan Lee also re-entered the romance genre with My Love #1; throughout the book's 39-issue history, Buscema, Romita, Colan, and Adams, among others, would contribute work. But the biggest 1st of the quarter was the introduction of the Falcon, Marvel's first African-American super-hero, in Captain America #117.

Karen: People tend to forget that the first character at Marvel to have adamantium in his body was Ultron, not Wolverine. Actually, he turned his entire body into adamantium, making him one of the Avengers' greatest foes. Although I love the Adams/Thomas X-Men, I never felt Sauron was a particularly strong character. But the art was lovely. The arrival of the Falcon in the Marvel Universe was huge. More than ever, it seemed like the Marvel heroes really did live in our world.
Doug: Summer's big events at the Distinguished Competition included an origin for Wonder Girl, by Marv Wolfman and Gil Kane, in Teen Titans #22. Four years after her introduction, Donna Troy was revealed to have been rescued as a baby by Wonder Woman from a burning apartment. WW took the baby to Paradise Island, where she was raised as the foster daughter of Queen Hippolyta. In September the western hero Firehair debuted in Showcase #85, rendered (and written) by Joe Kubert. A white man raised by Native Americans, Firehair told the story of the red-haired protagonist who belonged in neither world. DC Special #4 introduced us to our horror-host Cain's brother... you guessed it -- Abel. But the biggest deal as school was starting was Neal Adams re-imagining of Green Arrow, both in look and personality, in the pages of The Brave and the Bold #85.

Karen: Little did anyone know what an impact Adams' new G.A. would have on the comics world. Certainly, his costume was a huge improvement over the rather bland outfit he'd worn for years.

Doug: In the autumn, The Losers debuted in G.I. Combat #138, by Robert Kanigher and Russ Heath. In Justice League of America #75, Black Canary joined the team, and also developed her "canary cry". Bet Ollie was happy for that... The Atom and the Hawkman #45 was that series' last issue, and was again brought to readers by Denny O'Neil and Dick Dillin. December had one of the biggest stories, and really served to set up the coming of the Dark Knight in the Bronze Age -- Batman #217 featured the departure of Robin as Dick headed off to college. With that, Batman and Alfred sealed up the Batcave and moved out of Wayne Manor and into a penthouse apartment atop the Wayne Foundation building in downtown Gotham. Change was afoot...

Karen: I just don't know how you leave the Bat-cave. It's the coolest secret HQ ever!
Doug: To close out the year (and this series!), October's Avengers #69 gave us the Grandmaster -- but more importantly the Squadron Sinister. Created by Roy Thomas as a poke-fun at DC's JLA, the Squadron would go on to menace both the Avengers and the Defenders in many memorable dust-ups. Daredevil decided to reveal his secret ID as Matt Murdock when he spilled it all to Karen Page in DD #57; bet he regretted that move later (see Daredevil #227). In Captain Marvel #17, Mar-Vell and Rick Jones became bonded, a storyline that would continue for years. November's ASM #78 gave us Hobie Brown, the Prowler, and the Stingray debuted in Sub-Mariner #19, by Roy Thomas and Bill Everett.

Karen: Roy got even more mileage out of his JLA homage when he used essentially the same characters as the Squadron Supreme -heroic versions of the bad guys in another reality.

Doug: This was a fun jaunt through the Marvel Age. For my money, Marvel was just one creative explosion after another. While DC pushed the envelope here and there, with key events like the Batman television show and Neal Adams' first major comics work along the way, I just think there was no comparison in this period between the Big Two. As we've already seen in our tour of the Bronze Age, things would be a bit more back-and-forth in the 1970's and '80's, but in Marvel's infancy-to-adolescence period it's just not even close.

Karen: Agreed!

Cap for President! Captain America 250

Captain America #250 (Oct 1980)
"Cap for President!"
Writer: Roger Stern
Artists: John Byrne, Joe Rubenstein

Karen: Here's a great standalone issue from the excellent Roger Stern-John Byrne run on Cap in the 80s. Reading this issue, I'm struck how different in tone Cap was then and now. The book and the character had matured a great deal by 1980, growing more nuanced as he progressed from Stan Lee to Steve Englehart and onward (except for the the Kirby run, of course). The modern day Steve Rogers seems so disillusioned and worn down. This Cap still has an optimism in America.
Doug: Why do you think that is? I agree with you -- I wasn't a regular reader of Cap's title back in these days, but he is totally in-character with his appearances in The Avengers. But when you look at what was going on back when this would have been written (early 1980), the Iran hostage crisis was in its early stages, the economy was still sluggish, and the Soviets were in Afghanistan, prompting President Jimmy Carter to force the Western boycott of the 1980 Moscow Summer Olympics. Overall, in the real world it was a pretty depressing and uncertain time! Talk about escapist literature...

Karen: Our story begins as Cap foils a hostage situation at the National Populist Party's convention. After easily disarming the gunmen, the party's chairman, Samuel T. Underwood, takes Cap around to meet some of his staff. Of course, they are all thrilled to meet Cap. Somebody jokes that he should run for president. Before you know it, Underwood is talking seriously to Cap about being his party's candidate. He talks about how he wants to offer a real alternative to the Democrats and Republicans. Cap scoffs at the idea, but Underwood pushes him. "At least promise me that you'll think about it!" Not wanting to crush the man, Cap says he'll think about it -although he also thinks to himself, "But not too seriously."
Doug: The scene with the terrorists (funny how the stereotype of that term has changed over the years) was somewhat Batman-like, particularly the end of it when Cap saves the hostage. Cold-blooded move on our hero's part. As to Samuel T. Underwood -- he was just like a smarmy used car salesman; or Herb Tarlek...

Karen: Cap returns to his apartment when his neighbor Josh Cooper shows up, asking if Steve is ready to help their friend Bernie Rosenthal move some boxes into her place. Just as they are finishing up, another neighbor, Mike Farrell, arrives with a copy of the Daily Globe. On the cover: news that Cap is going to run for president!

Doug: It was good to meet this cast of characters, and see some normalcy in Steve Rogers' life. However, one of the things that made this title unappealing to me through the years was that lack of a firm anchor to the secret identity. There have been arguments made over the years as to what was real, (for example) Clark Kent or Superman? I think Cap falls into that same realm, where the mask is more important than the man. Maybe that's one of the reasons he's been such a brooding character under different writers. And to some extent, it is able fodder for stories -- the Cap/Peggy Carter relationship is a microcosm of one of the main problems. Here's a guy who wakes up one day, and he's 20 years younger, not older, than everyone he knows. That can alter some relationships and cause some instability, huh? Interesting, too, that the newspaper referenced is the Globe and not the Bugle.
Karen: Steve is stunned. But he's even more surprised when all three of his friends say they'd vote for Cap! "You'd actually vote for a man who is basically anonymous...who wears a mask?" All three say that they trust Cap completely. This gives Steve something to think about.

Doug: Who in America could you say that about today? Since Walter Cronkite was "the most trusted man in America", I don't think anyone else in our society has filled that bill. There certainly is no politician I could say that about. Am I older and wiser, or just beat down and more cynical?

Karen: I can't think of any public figure that I trust completely. I think in that, we're just maybe more realistic than cynical. When Cap goes to Avengers Mansion he finds it surrounded by reporters. Once he gets inside, the Beast does a little song and dance and says he can guarantee Cap the mutant vote. In the mansion's library, Cap finds Iron Man, the Wasp, and the Vision discussing Cap's candidacy. Although the Wasp is supportive, both Iron Man and the Vision feel strongly that Cap should not run. Then Jarvis steps in -the Secret Service called and wants to know if Cap will need protection! This is a lot for Cap to take in; despite himself, he's starting to wonder if he should be considering really making a run for the presidency.

Doug: The Avengers interlude was nice -- loved the scene with the Beast. I know Stern was writing this (I don't know to what extent John Byrne had anything to do with the script), but I found it odd that the Vision had more personality than we were perhaps used to seeing out of him at this time, yet by the end of the decade Byrne would forever alter that character.

Karen: That's funny, because I felt like the Vision was acting more stiffly and logical than he was portrayed n Avengers at this time! I guess it all depends on your point of view. Cap leaves the mansion and does a little roof-hopping, trying to clear his head. He comes across his old grade school, apparently abandoned for years. Going inside, he remembers his teacher, Mrs. Crosley, and the lessons she taught about doing one's duty to their country. Cap seems to have come to a decision, and contacts Underwood to hold a press conference.
Doug: We've discussed Marvel time quite a bit lately in regard to the FF. Cap will forever be linked to WWII, and so the 1930's will remain his childhood. I really liked this scene at the abandoned school -- very sentimental.

Karen: It's a very well done scene that manages to get across the whole 'man out of time' element and yet discuss virtues that are (in my opinion anyway) timeless. I hate when people call Cap (or Superman for that matter) 'boy scouts', as if being virtuous and honorable is somehow naive or juvenile. Call me old fashioned, but I want my heroes to be good guys!

Karen: Cap tells the gathered crowd that while he has great respect for the presidency, he has made a pledge to uphold the dream of America, to keep striving for that day that the dream becomes reality, and until the dream is fulfilled, he must devote his life to it. He then implores the crowd to look within themselves and become the candidates they need to keep the nation strong -"And God willing, to help make the dream come true!" He leaves the stage. The story ends with a quote from President Kennedy: "The courage of life is often a less dramatic spectacle...but it is no less a magnificent mixture of triumph and tragedy. A man does what he must...in spite of personal consequences...in spite of dangers and pressures...and that is the basis of all human morality."

Doug: No Red Skull, no Sleepers, no Batroc... but this was a Captain America story, wasn't it?

Karen: I've always liked this story. It seems a logical idea -wouldn't Cap make a great president? - and Stern does a good job showing why that isn't a path Cap cares to tread. I enjoyed how Steve at first dismisses the idea quickly, but then, after hearing others say what a great job he'd do, he has to consider it. But ultimately, his sense of his role in things wins out. I think he made the right choice.

Giant-Size July: Marvel Two-In-One Annual #1

Marvel Two-In-One Annual #1 (1976)
"Their Name is LEGION!"
Roy Thomas-Sal Buscema/Sam Grainger/George Roussos/John Tartag

Doug: Giant-Size July is in full swing, all! Today's post is part two of a 3-parter to kick things off, and then we'll leave you with a quite-grandiose story to finish this off in a few weeks. If you'll recall, Ben had some concerns at the end of last week's story -- when the Fantastic Four returned from their WWII adventure, they'd only secured half of the vibranium that they thought had gone missing. As the rest of the team left to celebrate and return to normalcy (whatever that is), Ben stayed in the lab -- when suddenly the Watcher reappeared. Yep, trouble still brewing. As Karen mentioned last week, these stories took place shortly after the Watcher had a renewed vow toward non-interference in terran affairs. So Ben was left to play 20 questions with the big, bald galoot.

Karen: Don't ya just love how Reed created a door that is so secure even he can't open it? Now that's a genius for you.
Doug: Roy Thomas and the artists give readers a 5-page recap of the events of Fantastic Four Annual #11, which must have been helpful as it's my understanding that this story came out a few months after that first installment. All of the high points are hit, so new readers should have felt caught up immediately. I'm not a big fan of "wasting" pages on lengthy recaps, but I've noticed that in the Bronze Age this was more often than not the policy. I think give how inaccessible comics can seem today, this was indeed the right course of action for publishers back in the days of our youth. Anyone should have felt that they could pretty easily find their entry-level with these stories.

Karen: I have to say, I felt that recap went on a few pages too long. Maybe it's because I read the first part of this story just a couple of weeks ago, but it seemed excessive. I can't help but think that they could have done a better job condensing it.
Doug: Ah, yes, but as the guy who volunteered to do the synopsis of this particular issue, I was much grateful that those were five pages I didn't have to synopsize!

Doug: So Ben and the Watcher get down to the guessing game, and Ben shows what may seem to some a hefty share of brains and deductive powers. But c'mon -- the guy was a pilot, and supposedly a pretty good one at that. I think Ben was always smarter than he gave himself credit for being. Ben begins to look at a viewer that Reed had used in the previous issue, one that helped them determine changes in New York City's skyline that originally got them thinking about the past. When Ben notices that the World Trade Center has blinked off the viewer (seeing events like that in comic books of the past always gives me pause, given the recent past of our lives), so he surmises that big changes must still be afoot in the past he thought he knew. The Watcher gives him a wry smile, and Ben senses that he's onto something. By the way, Ben's sealed himself inside the lab, so the rest of the FF are outside dealing with a timelock. As they keep working through Ben's hypotheses, Ben finally determines that some sort of "time wedge" (OK, works for me I guess) must have split the cylinder of vibranium in half. Half of it landed in Nazi-occupied Europe, but the other half... Well, only way to find out is to head out on the time platform, and see where it lands. Ben shoves the half of vibranium that he has into the machine in hopes that it will locate its mate, and away we go!

Karen: That time wedge -and its accompanying drawing -was just an indication of how kooky this whole drama would be. It really doesn't make any sense at all. Does this mean that the reality Ben goes off to is different than the one he went to with his team-mates? I have no idea.
Doug: Ben lands in the middle of Times Square, with a thud. But it's not his Times Square, but that of his youth! Naturally the citizens are amazed and a bit scared that a large orange-scaled creature has just been deposited in their midst, so New York's Finest step in. Ben's immediately befriended by a bright young man named Johnny Romita. Fortunately for Ben, this story takes place during the brief time he wore the exo-skeleton, so he's able to remove his helmet and show his face. This serves to initially placate the police, but when questioning begins to go awry, Ben of course loses his temper. In an attempted show of "I'm not going to hurt you", Ben hoists a car over his head. Well, a show of that kind of strength sets off the police, and this suddenly ain't looking good. The festivities are interrupted, however, by an air raid siren. Ben then notices a crawling message on a building marquee calling for "the Liberty Legion". Ben mutters to himself that he doesn't know anything about it. What did you think of that? Whether he and Reed were in Europe at this time in the War of not, I'd think that back in the 1940's people would have known about super-powered heroes...

Karen: Ben picking up the car to show he's not a menace is just so dang stupid. I guess we have to inject some action into the story somehow but really. As for him not recognizing the LL, I think the main reason would be that they are not well-known heroes, but 2nd and 3rd stringers. I have to say though, I always dug the Patriot's costume. Those primary colors, the helmet, the eagle emblem -it all works for me.Doug: In regard to your question about which timeline (above), I have no idea if it was the same reality or not. I guess if it was a different reality, then that would explain why Ben had never heard of the Liberty Legion. However, it borders on a "DC Multiverse" sort of quagmire, doesn't it?

Doug: Just as the air raid siren warned, a fleet of Nazi fighters suddenly appears, followed very shortly by a gang of costumed do-gooders! I was in on the ground floor of Invaders #'s 5-6 and Marvel Premiere #'s 29-30 back in the day, and despite the Don Heck and Frank Robbins art that populated those stories, I was pretty excited about the Liberty Legion. So that Roy was attempting to flesh out the team by using them here was A-OK with me. You know, I made a comment in one of our last Side-by-Sides that the Marvel Chronicle stated that Roy was leery about creating new characters, as he feared they'd become quite successful; in the days before creator rights/royalties, he was concerned that he could lose potential earnings. So his solution was to dredge up old names and characters from Marvel's past and re-use them. The Liberty Legion is a great example of that philosophy -- to this youngster, they were as fresh as anything created in the Bronze Age.

Karen: Of course, Roy is also a huge fan of the Golden Age, much as we are of the Silver and Bronze, so it's only natural that he'd like to write stories about characters from that period.
Doug: A Nazi called the Sky Shark is leading the raid on NYC, and as the Liberty Legion springs into action, our creative team does a nice job of not only identifying each character but also giving as a feel for what they can do. There's a little characterization, and Roy does a fair job throughout this story of adding on to what he gives us here. But by and large, this team is somewhat formulaic. Ben decides he wants in on the action, and the only way to get in on it is to get up in the air. Only way to do that is to launch himself, and the only way to do that is by slinging himself from a bent flagpole. So he gets to the top of the Times Building by clawing his way up the exterior, only to be opposed by the Patriot on the roof. The Whizzer soon arrives, but their attention continues to be on the dogfight. Sky Shark determines that with the interference of these heroes he cannot accomplish his mission, so flies off over the Atlantic, to a hidden base. Back to our protagonists, more introductions are made, and by this time new readers should have felt pretty comfortable.

Karen: Unfortunately, mid-way through this story, it's become evident that this part two has none of the energy and excitement of the first part. As you say, very formulaic.
Doug: On the base we get a brief origin of Sky Shark, and a cliffhanger as the dastardly villain shows his Japanese accomplice the weapon that "will pave the way for total victory by the Axis Powers!" Back in New York, the Liberty Legion has been dropped off in upstate New York, site of the secret development of Allied weapons. The heroes feel that they'd best get up there to assist in guarding the new technology. Of course they arrive mere moments too late, as the compound is already under siege, by Master Man! A fracas breaks out, and the Aryan menace makes short work of Blue Diamond, Miss America, and the Whizzer. Master Man is able to escape with new glass cockpit tech.

Karen: I have to say, Sky Shark and his Axis pal 'Slicer' are two of the lamest villains I've ever seen, and surprisingly, look like caricatures rather than what I expect from Sal Buscema. I enjoyed Master Man's appearance here more, although he easily defeats the three Legionnaires.
Doug: As this is a team story, it's only natural that everyone gets split up -- talk about formulaic! Red Raven and Jack Frost make their way to another installation, only to encounter Merrano, the U-Man. I liked seeing all of these super-baddies from the Invaders series. U-Man's come for a prototype jet engine, and despite heroic efforts he makes off with the goods. In the sky, the Thin Man again encounters Sky Shark, but all of this goes for naught, as the Nazis come out ahead in all battles. And what did they want all of this stuff for? Why, just to finish off their BIG FLYING SWASTIKA, that's not rotating over New York! And that flag pole? Yep, Ben's flexed it and launched himself right into the Big Apple's sky, at that flying "hunk a' junk" -- it's Clobberin' Time! To be concluded...
Karen: OK -a giant flying swastika? I will suspend my disbelief for a lot of things, but this is too much. THAT is their master weapon? Oy. Another disappointing aspect to this story is the fact that Ben barely appears in it. Why couldn't he have gone with one of the teams? I really enjoyed the first part in the FF annual, but this annual was a big let down.

Doug: I'll agree with you that this story wasn't as good as the first, and that this particular installment dragged on a bit. Roy could be so wordy! But when you reflect on the story, on one had it seems like there was a lot going on, but then again there weren't all too many scene-shifts. I found myself trying to view this through my 10-year old eyes, and when I could do that (certainly, all of the warts you've cited were visible to me, too) I had more fun. I did my read about 10 days before my re-read when I framed out this post. The second time around (which would have been the third time I read the story) I laughed off some of the silly stuff. And in regard to Ben's somewhat-absence from the story -- this book screams of Marvel's cross-marketing, doesn't it? A pity the Liberty Legion never caught on; stories set in the past have so many possibilities, and the skies wouldn't have been nearly so crowded as they were in the Marvel Age.

Doug: I want to ask you a question -- maybe you know this, because I am not certain. I know that there was a retcon/revelation around a decade ago that Ben Grimm is Jewish. Are you aware if that was ever hinted at earlier? I ask, because as I've read these first two issues in our little summer trilogy (to be concluded next Monday), one could certainly explain Ben's passions against the Nazis and their symbols in this regard. Now, he's also a veteran with combat experience, so one could argue that is the source of his extreme consternation. What sayest thou?

Karen: As far as I know, nothing was ever said about Ben's heritage until that issue of FF (#56, vol.3). It's been said that Kirby and/or Lee intended for Ben to be Jewish but I don't know if that's ever been said in an interview with either of them (anybody out there have any direct evidence?). I don't think I ever thought about it as a kid -let's face it, until the 70s and later, pretty much all our heroes seemed to be WASPs. But I think it is a nice touch to the character. As far as his animosity towards the Axis goes, I assume we can chalk it up to Ben's moral strength and his outrage at the things the Nazis did. But reading these stories now, with the idea that Ben is Jewish, does add an extra dimension to it.

Secret Identities: Pro and Con

Karen: Let's talk about one of the staples of super-hero comics: the secret identity. How necessary is it? For some characters, that civilian ID is completely necessary, as important as their hero ID. This is certainly true for characters like Spider-Man, whose life as Peter Parker was in many ways even more involving than his heroic exploits. Certainly you could not disengage the two identities. Peter IS Peter; even when wearing that red and blue (or black!) costume, he remains Peter. It's pretty much impossible to conceive of one without the other.

Karen: On the other hand, I think a character like Thor has no need of a secret ID. The Don Blake character was ultimately revealed to be a false person, a mortal cloak to throw over Thor. While the book might have started out with a premise similar to the original Captain Marvel, with a weak mortal transformed into a powerful, god-like hero, Thor steered away from Don Blake so much by the early 70s that he was no longer important to the title.

Karen: There are some characters who have secret IDs but one wonders, why? I'd throw Captain America into this category. Since Cap has only rarely developed a life outside of super-heroing, hiding his Steve Rogers ID seems unnecessary. What about Iron Man? The Iron Man movie makes a pretty good case for discarding the whole secret ID thing.

Doug: How about the Fantastic Four? Talk about no need for a secret ID. And when you think about them, they are synonymous with their "code names". And really -- after awhile is there really any drama in stories where some girlfriend or boyfriend is constantly trying to uncover their love's alter ego? How dense must Lois Lane have been??

Karen: Sometimes we wonder which identity is the 'true' identity. You could debate the Superman/Clark Kent question til the cows come home. Personally, I think he's like Spider-Man -he's always Clark, just not a stumbling, fumbling Clark. He's always the small town boy with a strong sense of right and wrong.

Karen: Batman's a whole different proposition. He needs his Bruce Wayne identity to fund his activities, but who is the real person? I tend to think his Batman persona dominates.

Karen: So let's talk secret identities - who needs one, who doesn't, and who is the real person?

 

Good Day, Sunshine! It's Another Do-It-Yourself Open Forum!

Doug: By now most of our avid readers and commenters know the drill -- today is a day when the first respondent is el jefe (the boss)! Yep, you're in charge of whatever it is we're going to discuss. So make it a good one. And the rules remain the same -- no thread hijacking. Whoever set their alarm clock early should be rewarded, so play nice!

Everyone have a great day!