Of Ogres, +2 Swords, and Doritos

Karen: When I was a kid I used to play Dungeons and Dragons. A lot. For me it started with the boxed Basic set, then quickly turned to Advanced Dungeons and Dragons, and the Player's Manual, Monster Manual, Dungeon Master's Guide, and all the additional books. Too young to drive, I'd enlist my mother, who was always happy to indulge my odd interests, and she would take me and my friends out to the hobby store in a near-by town, where I would buy Grenadier miniatures or some more poly-sided dice.

I was the DM (dungeon master for the uninitiated) for my little group of friends. I would spend weeknight evenings crafting adventures for them to play, poring over the rule books and populating my scenarios with creatures like Gelatinous Cubes and Beholders. On Saturday afternoons, we'd get together and spend anywhere from 4 to 6 hours caught up in a world of our mutual creation. Monsters would be slain, gold would be taken, and magical treasures would be wagered for, all while we drank Cokes and snacked on Doritos and Zingers.

Each person in the group had a different approach to the game. One friend, who mapped for the players, was a problem solver. She loved figuring out how to get past traps or answer riddles. Another was a role player, acting out everything his character did and speaking like his character. One was all about becoming more powerful and obtaining treasure. Another just seemed to enjoy rolling the colorful dice! But despite the fact that it was all happening in our heads, we'd often spend our lunch breaks at school talking about our past exploits. To this day, I remember a battle with a red dragon where the valiant ranger Diogenes was slain -- which of course, lead to another adventure to find a way to resurrect him!

There was a lot of negative press for D&D back in those days. Some people tried to link it to Satanism or teen suicide. Baloney. If anything, it was a great outlet for geeky kids to get together and have fun and to let their creative juices flow. I went on to play other RPGs later on, but D&D was the first and probably the most dear to my heart.

Nowadays I play games like Dragon's Age and Skyrim on my computer, and I enjoy them a lot. The graphics are just incredible. But a part of me still misses the interaction I had with others back when we all sat around a table and had an adventure together. Even multi-player online games can't compare with actually being in the same room together, talking and laughing and having a good time. I did briefly play D&D again as an adult with some friends and we had a great time. But that was many years ago, and I'm not sure where I'd find the time -or the right people - to do it now. I have too many other things I'm interested in. But I still look back on my playing days fondly.

So anybody else want to share their thoughts and experiences on the grand-daddy of all RPGs?

Super-Hero Soap Operas

Doug: So if you're like me, you've been reading comic books for around 40 years or so (egad...). Along the way, various creators have left their imprints on the titles and characters we love. For better or worse, "character development" takes place -- our protagonists are put into situations that should change them for the better. However, with decades of backstory, the inevitable retcons, deaths-and-resurrections, costume changes, and general adventures, suddenly there becomes a lot of baggage.

Doug: So in the world of comics readers and your friends who are not, you find yourself talking to a comics-Gentile -- one not among the chosen, an outsider to our four-color faith. And then the inevitable question comes: "Tell me why you like X so much. What's so cool about that character/book?" And you decide you're going to start at the beginning, because that's such a good place to begin anyway, and move forward in the narrative. And suddenly it occurs to you that you know too much. Your closet door has suddenly exploded open.

Doug: Which character or team has the most convoluted, even silly history? Think about all of the books you've read -- which one would you start talking about and feel like you were in the middle of a soap opera -- I might as well be talking about dating my mail carrier, having kids with the boss's step-daughter, being abducted by aliens, and hiding jewels on behalf of the Mafia.

Doug: Let's hear it!

It's A Bug's Life: Marvel Team-Up 60

Marvel Team-Up #60 (August 1977)
"A Matter of Love... and Death!"
Chris Claremont-John Byrne/Dave Hunt

Karen: Howdy folks. You might recall that at the end of part one of our story, it looked as if Yellowjacket had joined that big hive in the sky, as our villain Equinox caused a tanker truck to explode, catching YJ in the flames. As we begin part two, Equinox is excitedly yelling that he has killed an Avenger. This sets off that other Avenger, YJ's wife the Wasp, but sadly, her powers are no match for the villain. Spidey pulls Jan away just as she's about to get blasted.

Doug: I found the dialogue to be really clunky in the first few pages. Again (I just want to curse myself every time I suggest this), a little decompression would have been more impactful in regard to the way Jan's emotions played out. While Byrne's pictures are definitely pretty to look at, I'm finding that Chris Claremont is struggling to get away from the dock. And what should we make of Equinox? I sense that he's a minor-leaguer, and more trouble than he's worth. He is sort of cool-looking, however, especially the way the heat/ice alternates on his body.

Karen: Sure, there were a few rough spots here and there, but all in all, I thought Claremont did well. I agree that Equinox seems like a minor threat - I think that was a frequent problem with the MTU villains. If Spidey can handle Electro on his own, Equinox doesn't seem like he should be so difficult. But that's who we got here. Spidey and Jan begin to question Dr. Sorenson, the mother of Equinox. She defends her son by saying the thermodynamic processes in his body are affecting his mind, but that doesn't go over well with the Wasp. She grabs the doctor and yells at her, prompting Spider-Man to pull her off. Wasp snaps at him, saying. "Who've you ever lost?" Uh oh...Why not just drive a dagger in his heart? Spider-Man quietly responds, "Someone very close." But before that conversation can go any further, Equinox is on the move again, tossing cars like toys as he pursues our heroes. Dr. Sorenson tries using an experimental ray on him, but to no avail. Spidey scoops up the doc and swings off with the Wasp right behind. They realize they're going to have to have a plan. Since the Avengers are out of town, they head for (where else?) the Baxter Building.

Doug: Byrne's visual of Spidey with his shoulders seemingly slumped, head bowed and the hesitation in his voice is solid, even if it is a very narrow panel. I'd have liked to have seen floating heads of not only Gwen, but how about of Uncle Ben, too? And back to my previous comment, about the lack of emotional feeling coming through in the first scenes -- for me this just segued back into standard superheroing a little too quickly. I know Equinox was a violent menace bent on not only Spidey-destruction but property destruction in general, but... Ah, maybe I'm just being old and grumpy.

Karen: During their trip to see the FF, Dr. Sorenson explains how her son Terry came to be Equinox. Frankly it's kind of boring but essentially her scientist husband grew resentful of her success and started physically taking it out on her. She finally left him, but one night as she came to see him (not sure why) his house blew up. Seventeen year-old Terry ran in to save his dad but was caught in some strange energy beams, and of course, became Equinox. She tried to reverse the process but couldn't. Terry got crazy, and began a life of crime.
Doug: I guess if Barry Allen could become the Flash from some lightning and chemicals, then anything's fair. Here's a question for you -- since Equinox is apparently not wearing any clothes, then why does his head look as if he's wearing Wolverine's mask? Was that a cosmetic sort of thought so that in his first appearance readers could keep the bad guy separate from the Torch and Iceman?

Karen: Yeah, Equinox seems oddly inhuman. Besides the strange head shape, he also has fangs. If anything, he looks sort of demonic, which would make sense if his origin was a supernatural one. But otherwise, it's just weird. Once at the Baxter Building, Wasp is able to gain access with her Avengers ID card (don't leave home without it). As they enter the building though, the lights go out. Seems Equinox has zapped a sub-station nearby. Of course, Reed Richards would never rely purely on NYC's power grid, so the lights come back up immediately -however, the power loss means the building is operating off the back-up computer, and apparently it doesn't know that our heroes are authorized to be there! Lasers start firing and Spidey scrambles to get Dr. Sorenson to safety. But the door of the room he enters locks behind them, leaving Wasp on the other side. Jan's OK though -in fact, better than OK. She seems to be faster and stronger than ever before. Instinctively, she knows this is Hank's doing. She enters the ventilation system and flies to the main control room, where she shuts off the security system.

Doug: I really liked the panel where the Wasp rips open the grill. Her facial expression was well done. Four panels after that, there's an image that looks like it was ripped right out of Avengers #83 when the Wasp first spied the Lady Liberators. Didn't you think she negotiated those air ducts just a bit too easily?

Karen: Were you expecting there to be lasers in them too, like in The Andromeda Strain? Honestly, the thought never occurred to me! While Wasp has been having fun, Spidey and Dr. Sorenson have been holed up in the FF lab, improving her device. Unfortunately, using it on Equinox means being in close contact. And of course, who should show up but Equinox himself, burning a hole in the wall to make his entrance. Man, are the FF gonna be PO'ed!

Doug: Yeah, whoa -- what about how ol' "Noxie" (shoot me -- I hate that name) got to the point where he could blow out the wall? He scaled the Baxter Building like King Kong! Ummm..... Do you think Dr. Sorenson questioned Spidey's scientific aptitude? Parker assembled that new weapon about as quickly as Reed Richards himself would have. But back to the Baxter Building, and this thought would ring true in regard to Avengers Mansion as well -- don't you think there would be better security around the perimeter of the building? I mean, I realize these places are supposed to be right on a city block, with civilians all around. But I can't help but think that, with access to the Negative Zone just inside (for example), getting close to that sort of thing was just too easy.
Karen: Spidey takes on Equinox by himself, wishing the Wasp was there "to distract Noxie" but finds he's in trouble. Suddenly, a figure appears -is it the Wasp? The Thing? Aunt Petunia? No! It's Yellowjacket! That's right, he's not dead! Equinox is shocked, Spidey is shocked -but the Wasp, who has just flown into the room, is really shocked. Hank tells her to let Equinox have it with her stingers -and amazingly, they blast him across the room. While the thermodynamically challenged youth is still reeling, YJ slaps Dr. Sorenson's device on him and it stops his fire and ice powers -although he isn't quite human looking. Jan throws herself at Hank, who explains that when the truck blew up, he shrank to insect size and rode the shock waves. It rendered him unconscious but not dead. He also says that Jan's increased powers are due to a serum he gave her -her birthday present. Now the smaller she gets, the more powerful she gets. It took the adrenalin rush she felt when she thought Hank had died to activate it. YJ, Wasp, and Dr. Sorenson head off with Equinox in tow to see the police, leaving behind a poor wall-crawler who hopes he can clean up the Baxter Building before the FF come back.
Doug: The ending was good -- I really thought it was cool that Spider-Man felt like he should clean up. Nice detail. Of course since I'm using the new trade paperback, I peeked ahead to the next issue to see what happened next. The clean-up excuse was a nice bridge between issues 60 and 61. I didn't have a problem with the explanation of YJ's reappearance, although I wonder how long it took him to figure out that our cast had relocated to the Baxter Building. By the way, and maybe our readers will have to help us out here -- you cited the panel where YJ says they are taking Equinox to the police. Sure he's depowered, and is wearing the dampening harness-doohickey. Where did super-baddies end up back in 1977? Was the Vault open for business yet?

Karen: This was a fun romp, just a simple little story that delivered some solid entertainment. It was nice to see YJ and Wasp outside of the Avengers -that didn't happen too often!
Doug: I agree with you about the two-part story, and about the little Avengers -- and that may seem surprising given some of my criticisms above. I do believe that if Claremont had written this a bit later, after he'd become more comfortable with Spider-Man it might have been better. But Byrne's art really holds it together. By the way, if anyone is wondering where this 2-parter fits in with his X-Men writing schedule, these Marvel Team-Up issues fall right around X-Men #'s 105-106 -- and you may immediately recognize that the Claremont/Byrne run in the X-Men had not yet begun! Of course, they had been a creative duo on Iron Fist for well over a year, however. Hey -- news you can use!

Artistic License?

Doug: We're talking uniforms/costumes today, kids. What is your opinion of super-suits being revamped, or even just tweaked, when a new artist comes onto a title? Or, and maybe this is even worse, what's your opinion on a character who appears in more than one title and one of his pencilers tosses in his own "personal touch" while the other remains true to the current character design? These can be somewhat subtle changes, such as a different look for Batman's utility belt running between Batman and Detective Comics.

Doug: Most of us are fond of Dave Cockrum's costume re-designs for the Legion of Super-Heroes in the early 1970's. However, in hindsight some of them are quite gawdawful -- and didn't Mike Grell just take that ball and run with it? Who among you would be strutting your stuff in the togs of Cosmic Boy, or of Tyroc? Yeah, you'd look sweet in those little white elf shoes, Killer! I'm certain there were many Legion fans who had been with the team since it's inception who were quite put-off by this young intruder to the canon that was Legion lore.

Doug: And what of classic outfits that stand the test of time, like Hawkeye's suit (although from recent artwork I've seen he's now apparently dressed as he will be in the Avengers feature film)? We've commented ourselves on the abrupt change in manliness tossed Clint Barton's way -- thank goodness they switched him back! Certain characters, like the Pyms, seem to change fashions all the time. For me, it's almost as if that has become a vital aspect of their very characters -- it bothers me not.

Doug: So let's hear it -- where do you stand on costume tweaks and/or re-designs? Do you have some favorites? How about panning a few here and there? And as always, thanks for your participation!

Thorsday Thrills! The Mighty Thor 186

Thor #186 (March 1971)
"Worlds at War!"
Stan Lee-John Buscema/Joe Sinnott

Doug: Hi! For the next four weeks I'll be taking a peek at some random issues of Thor -- all of which were culled from the giving hands of a couple of eBay sellers several months ago. Today we'll begin shortly after Silver became Bronze, and next week we'll jump ahead to the 20c "framed cover" era. My Thor collection is long gone (converted to cash on behalf of the quest for the complete run of the Avengers), and I don't have the Essentials that contain these issues... so when I say this is random, well you'd better believe it's going to be random! On with the show --

Doug: And truthfully, you and I are thrust headlong into the middle of a story -- and we'll be thrust headshort out of it that way, too! Odin is in pitched battle with Infinity as we "splash", and the text box on said page states: "Ruled by a super-powerful being known only as Infinity -- the far-off world beyond threatens to destroy the universe! Seeking to save the cosmos, lordly Odin has dared to enter the world beyond -- together with the mysterious Silent One. But now, as Odin battles Infinity -- he senses danger to the mighty Thor, who has followed -- to aid his father --" Odin is blasting away, and the strain on him is obvious. But as he battles, he senses that Thor has reverted to his human form and is facing great menace. Indeed, the Allfather is able to divert his attention slightly, where he spies a hulking warrior with four massive arms closing on Dr. Donald Blake. Knowing that only Mjolnir will save the royal offspring, Odin wills that it should appear. In time, Thor now stands opposed to his would-be killer.

Doug: With one mighty blow, the Thunder God fells his nemesis. But as he turns to leave, hoping to reach Odin in time to assist him, the giant is hit by an energy bolt from the darkness of Infinity, and rises. Having declared that he is indeed an agent of Infinity, it makes sense why he's come back for more. Well, Goldilocks wallops him upside the head again, and down he goes -- again. But wait for it -- yep, one more time. And one more time down he goes. This time, though, Thor (being smarter than the average bear) uses his mystical mallet to encircle the would-be assassin in a dome of energy that repels the predictable blast from Infinity. Case closed.

Doug: Now speeding through time and space to find his father, Thor comes upon the mysterious Silent One, waving the Thunder God back. Offended at this, Thor raises his hammer to smite the elderly one, but is stopped by the roar of Odin. As is typical, the brash son questions the father -- uh uh. Not advisable. It's now Odin who threatens a good smiting, and Thor accedes. Suddenly the Silent One gestures for Thor to follow him, and the Thunder God feels that perhaps he will at last have an answer as to what is happening. We then get a couple of cutaway scenes, as the impact of the battle with Infinity is felt around the cosmos. On Earth, astronomers struggle to explain what is happening as natural disasters strike American cities. And on Asgard, the noble Warriors Three are under a trance-like spell. Sealed in a heavy cell, they break out as Lady Sif and the Vizier talk about the Odinsword. It has begun to inch out of its sheath, and as all know -- once it is out, Ragnarok will come!

Doug: Fandral, Hogun, and Volstagg have burst forth with an oath to finish withdrawing the Odinsword. Sif opposes them, and then Balder the Brave enters the fray. Banging a gong (get it on), the Vizier summons the warriors of Asgard. Under the shear weight of the masses, the Warriors Three succumb. But the threat of Infinity is not over, as even watchful Heimdahl remarks that time and space are not right -- as he's never seen it. Cut back to Thor and the Silent One, who continue to journey. Finally reaching their destination, Thor is shocked when the old man falls suddenly forward in worship -- of Hela, Queen of the Dimension of Death. What the?!? It seems the Silent One was an emissary of Hela, sent to be her eyes and ears. It was his job, her will, to bring Thor to the Netherworld. And Hela doesn't plan on him leaving! Thor resists, but he's no match for her as a force of nature. He begins to wither away, eventually looking older than the Silent One. But something unforeseen happens -- as the last of Thor's lifeforce is about to evacuate his body, the Silent One steps forward and touches the Thunder God. A tear in his eye, the craggy old man donated his own lifeforce to save a god!

Doug: Now restored, Thor speeds back through time and space to aid the Allfather Odin. But as he approaches, Infinity has seemingly overwhelmed Odin -- he falls! But as Thor approaches, the Lord of Asgard rises -- with the same entranced look we saw earlier in the Warriors Three! As the teaser for the next issue bellows, "Thor vs. Odin!"

Doug: This was an action-packed issue! I am not wholly certain what the heck was going on... a look at the covers around this issue tells me that this was a four-issue arc. The art team of John Buscema and Joe Sinnott was stellar as always -- we've beat the dog dead that Sinnott exerted a lot of influence on Big John's pencils, but for me it's a comfortable, reliable look. I would criticize one point, however, and that's the lack of backgrounds in approximately 10% of the panels. You may think that's a nitpick, but I'd offer that for the most part it seems that the panels are rendered with great detail. It almost makes me wonder if Vinnie Colletta didn't wander by and see the pages laying on a table! Speaking of panels, and of panel lay-outs: Can anyone recall off the top of their head if Big John very often burst the bounds of the panel line, a la Adams, Steranko, or Colan? Seems to me that Buscema remained pretty conventional. Stan's script is fine -- nothing spectacular (no truly memorable Stan-isms), but by 1971 most of us are aware that Stan was releasing his hold on his writing chores to head to the realm of publishing.

Discuss: Wolverine

Karen: Hard to believe, but we've never had a post dedicated to that crazy Canuck, Wolverine. He's one of the few comics characters created post-1960s who is in the top tier popularity-wise, but there's also been some backlash against him too. Let's hear your thoughts on the runt.

Comic Shop Memories

Karen: My very first "real" job was at my small town's comic shop. The phrase "shotgun shack" is an apt description; the space was about 8 feet wide and 25 feet long. With the long boxes stacked along either wall, the actual walking space from end to end was no more than 3 feet wide. It was cramped, with dim lighting and cracks in the walls. Yet, it was an honest to goodness real comic book shop, something I had never even imagined existed until Mr. Markgraf opened his store. (None of these pictures are of his shop -I simply added them for flavor.)

I was a regular customer from the age of 11 up. When I hit my teens, I struggled to find a job. I applied at all the usual places (the new mall was a popular site for teen job-seekers) but nothing came my way. Then, Mr. Markgraf asked me one day if I'd be interested in working in the shop part-time. As Mary Jane said to Peter Parker, "You just hit the jackpot!"

When I look back on it now I am amazed that my parents let me do it, as the days that I worked, I was the only person in the shop! But it really was a different world back then. Hiring me gave the owners a chance to have a few days off each week and even go on trips. I started out working two days a week but it moved up to three and sometimes four at a time. I'd also sometimes come in on Wednesdays and assist with putting the new comics out. Being alone in the shop usually wasn't scary though. Well, except for the time a guy I'd never seen before lurched through the door and asked me, "Are you alone in here?" That was a wee bit disturbing.

I knew I had a good thing going. I could read as many comics as I liked, for free. This was the early 80s and the independent market had come alive, so I was reading all sorts of stuff. It was here that I was first exposed to Elfquest and Nexus (back when Nexus was in a magazine format). Mr. Markgraf was a smart guy; he probably knew he'd get back a fair amount of what he paid me. At least I got a discount.

My friends enjoyed coming by, too. Most of them weren't comics fans but they were all geeks of one sort or another, and it had higher prestige with them than working at Hot Dog on a Stick. One of my friends did read comics and sometimes she and I would sit behind the register with a big stack of books to peruse.

Now don't think I didn't help the customers; I did. I offered suggestions, found back issues, and generally chatted them up. For the most part, it was fun meeting other fans. But there were always those customers that I dreaded seeing. There were the ones who you could smell as soon as they opened the door. In that confined space, especially in the summertime, and without an air conditioner, it was nearly lethal. There was the the shambling mess of man who had an ever-present crust of snot around his nose, who loved to share his knowledge. For hours. There was the uber nerd who would come in and start arguments with me over comics history. Even when I dug a book out to prove him wrong, he'd insist he was right.

Perhaps the worst though was the sheriff's deputy who was always trying to pick me up. Seriously, I was a teen-ager and this man must have been in late thirties. He'd come in, all puffed up in his uniform, with his pomaded hair and talk about some criminal he'd caught or some other exploit. A couple of times he pulled out his revolver to show me. He would ask if I was seeing anyone and I was smart enough to say yes. It didn't really deter him though.

But despite those things, it is a job I look back on fondly. When I go into comic shops now, I always scan them with my past in mind. I'm often awed at how much space some shops now have, or the great displays they put up. I always note the level of cleanliness, or lack thereof; whether the shop focuses on new product or has a strong back issue inventory; and of course, how they treat their customers. I've been in far too many stores where the employees never even acknowledge your presence. But that type of store seems to be disappearing. Most of the shops I have patronized in the last ten years make an effort to welcome their customers. There's been a lot of diversification, just to survive, and many shops are a combination of comic, game, and toy store. But one thing hasn't changed: the role of the shop as a place for comic geeks to get together and express their love -or hate! -for their hobby. I hear many of the same discussions now as I did then; oh sure, the names may change, but it's still pretty much the same. It's oddly reassuring.

With the decline of bookstores, I wonder if the comic shop is not far behind. Here in Phoenix, our biggest comic seller, Atomic Comics, went out of business suddenly last summer. All four stores closed. But thankfully a number of other stores appear to be going strong. I would really hate to see them disappear. Comic shops are like a safe haven, a clubhouse for comics fans where they can be themselves and find like-minded people. I suppose if they did disappear there would still be conventions, but it's not the same as having a place to go week after week in your own community. Long live the LCS!

Isn't It Great When Hank's Heroic? Marvel Team-Up #59

Marvel Team-Up #59 (July 1977)
"Some Say Spidey Will Die by Fire... Some Say by Ice!"
Chris Claremont-John Byrne/Dave Hunt

Doug: Welcome one and all to the first of a four-part look at the Claremont/Byrne Marvel Team-Ups. Karen suggested this to me about a month ago, and as fate would have it Marvel Comics released a trade paperback of these very issues just in time for Christmas! If you'll recall, we've already reviewed a 2-parter from this run, showcasing Havok and Thor against the Living Monolith. This time around we're checking in on Yellowjacket and the Wasp, and then Iron Fist and the Daughters of the Dragon. So, without further ado...

Doug: I feel it only responsible to bring up a major continuity issue right from the get-go. If you notice the cover date above, July 1977, then perhaps like me you may have wondered just where this story dovetails with the Avengers. Let's face it -- if you're reading a story about Dr. Henry Pym in the late 1970's-early 1980's, you have to worry about his mental state. Well, lo and behold if this 2-parter didn't hit the spinner racks at exactly the same time as Avengers #'s 161 and 162. Hmmph. What do you make of that?

Karen: Apparently listening to Spidey's wisecracks are what drove Hank over the deep end.

Doug: We begin with Spider-Man about to swing across the East River, after a Sunday dinner at his Aunt May's house. Suddenly a fire blast engulfs our hero, forcing him to let go of his webline (he says he had to let go before he burned? Did you wonder why?). But as he prepares to release another line, he's ripped across the chops by a baseball bat-sized bolt of ice. Unconscious, Webhead plummets toward the river. A short distance away, however, our co-stars are about to get it on (yeah, baby) when both Avengers spy Spider-Man's plight. To me, there are two keys in this scene: The first is Jan's statement that she's basically not seen Hank for a week as he's been holed up in his lab -- could this be the time when Ultron got to him and corrupted him? Additionally, Hank himself comments that he's increased his powers tenfold. Could the incorporation of his molecular disruptor gun into his wings have had anything to do with the mental instability we'd see in the "Bride of Ultron" storyline?

Karen: First of all, I have to say that I've always thought Byrne drew a great Spidey. He seemed to 'get' the character, at least from a physical sense. His web-slinger was always acrobatic yet powerful. Regarding Jan and Hank, I think Jan and Sue Richards should get together and commiserate. What is it with these eggheads, always neglecting their wives. I do think you could spin some sort of excuse for Hank's impending breakdown out of his work, but I doubt that there was any collaboration between Claremont and Shooter over this. It does work though.

Doug: Hank, now apparently faster than a speeding bullet, plucks Spidey from the water. You'll notice right away that a major improvement in Hank's powers is that he doesn't have to shrink to fly. I thought this looked weird -- I had the same feeling years later when Jan's powers were augmented such that she only had to shrink to around four feet to sprout her wings and fly. Hank brings Spider-Man back to the Pyms' apartment, stating that it's as well-equipped as any hospital. Funny, though, that all they do is seat him in front of the fireplace with a blanket over his legs! I've thought for a long time that medical expenses are ridiculously high... Spidey comes to, and the Avengers question him about his misfortunes. Spider-Man recounts how the Torch (shown in all his red-suited glory in a flashback) and Iceman once battled a super-baddie named Equinox, a thermo-dynamic man. Equinox possessed the ability to shoot flames from his icy hands, or ice from his flaming body.

Karen: I never really understood how those fins on Hank's shoulders (never looked like wings to me) allowed him to fly, so I really didn't question him flying at full-size. I thought it was funny that he didn't want Jan to help him, since she wasn't wearing an outift made of unstable molecules, and therefore would have to fly in her birthday suit. There's a panel in there when Spidey is unconscious and he pictures Gwen falling -that was a nice touch. I love how Spidey is able to quickly figure out who his attacker is, all based on some idle chit chat with the Torch! That was a wee bit too convenient, but it got the story rolling.

Doug: You know, in The Ultimates, doesn't Jan battle the Hulk in the nude? Or maybe she just flashed him...?

Doug: Let's take a brief break from the plot to discuss some of the story elements. Tops, John Byrne's art is pretty good. I wouldn't say it's great, certainly not his best (can we blame that on the absence of Terry Austin on the inks?), but it's very nice. I would take issue, though, with Claremont's script - or at least elements of the dialogue. The use of the terms "Waspie" and "Noxie" was grating on my nerves. I really felt that Claremont struggled to find the voices of these characters. I'd have to go back to the aforementioned Havok and Thor issues to see if he improved -- those were published about a year after today's story.

Karen: As you know Doug, I have always thought that Byrne looked his best when inked by Austin. Austin's a talented artist in his own right and he seemed to bring out the best in Byrne's pencils. I would say that Hunt is acceptable -better than many, although not the best. Middle of the pack. I would agree with you that Claremont struggled at times to find the voice of his characters. He was pretty good with Spidey though. There were times that I recall, later in his X-Men run, when it seemed like everyone sounded the same. But he knows how to spin a good tale.

Doug: At the same time Spidey guesses who is nemesis is, guess who comes calling? You are right, and the Pyms' apartment took the brunt of the greeting. Equinox stands perched on what used to be a window sill, and declares that tonight Spider-Man dies! Yeah, yeah, yeah... Superhero slugfest ensues. Of note is a bit of foreshadowing that's not all that mysterious, as we see a traffic jam form below with an African-American lady very interested in the goings on above her and a disgruntled trucker carrying a payload of fuel. I can see where that one is heading. The fight is carried outside after YJ gives Equinox a new-and-improved disruptor blast. This is depicted well, as is a panel showing Jan shrinking. Once outside, Equinox escapes via an Iceman-like slide.

Karen: How come nobody ever gets burned by these fire-wielding guys? Heck, I got badly burned by a pop tart once. Oh well, I'll let it go. It's a pretty typical fight, although I agree that YJ's disruptors, as depicted by Byrne, actually looked powerful. He had that Kirby Krackle thing going on.

Doug: Our heroes pursue and Jan gets whacked upside the head -- you can almost hear her say "I've never seen anyone move so fast!". But we're spared. Instead, she rebukes her own clumsiness, and then jumps Hank for improving his own powers but not hers. I keep coming back to what Jim Shooter was writing this month in the Avengers...

Karen: Hank was always toying with his powers and his identity. It seemed like his inferiority complex evolved quite naturally. Who wouldn't feel inferior, when you're on a team with Hulk, Iron Man, and Thor, and all you can do is shrink and order bugs around? Then he fiddles around and gets growth powers, giving him some raw power although still below that of Hulk and Thor at least. I doubt that it was a conscious plan on the part of Stan and Jack, but by the time Roy had Hank have a mental breakdown and become YJ, you could just feel the desperation and frustration there. That made it easy for Shooter -and later writers - to turn Hank into a fragile figure.

Doug: The battle moves back to the bridge over the East River. Equinox is dangerous, but not in the "prime time" category. Nonetheless, Jan is injured by some flaming debris and rendered unconscious. Hank lights into Equinox pretty hard, while Spider-Man encounters the mysterious lady (whom we now know as the mother of our baddie) from the traffic jam -- now sporting one pretty large, quite high-tech gun. All players converge on the bridge. And as Spidey helps the Wasp to her feet, Hank and Equinox battle closer and closer to -- you guessed it -- the fuel truck. In a cold-blooded move, Equinox fires above the staggered Hank, right into the fuel truck igniting it into a huge fireball. Tense moments later, a figure emerges from the inferno and it's not Yellowjacket. Standing triumphantly atop the mangled truck, Equinox is confronted by a fighting made Wasp -- who declares that she will be the death of this villain!

Karen: The explosion just radiated heat and fury- great job by Byrne. I also liked the expressions on the 'floating heads' on that page. It was also nice to see the Wasp's fighting spirit -here she has a chance to truly be an avenger.

Discuss: Super Friends