Thursday, March 21, 2013

Parental Guidance

Doug:  Some of the comments in our recent discussions, notably the post last Friday on periphery products (Karen's tale of a father not happy due to the redecorative properties of the Marvel wall stickers was a hoot) alongside our comics buying, has us thinking about the role our parents and other significant adults played in our buying as children and teens.  Today we'd like to talk about allowances, parental support or disdain (and we hope to not open any wounds for our readers -- forgive us in advance, as that is certainly not the intent of this conversation), and maybe even specific comics you recall a significant adult in your life purchasing for you.

Image courtesy of the Mego Museum
Doug:  My mom was just a saint when it came to supplying this pup with comics and comic-related goodness.  I wish I could remember if I was a royal pain-in-the-butt at the store; I don't think I was, but hey -- I have a hard time remembering what I ate for breakfast yesterday.  I can recall several trips home from Target or Venture with a Mego in hand, and I have vivid memories of riding my bike -- at the ripe old age of 7 (something I never would have let my own kids do) -- to the local drugstore to buy 25c comics.  I really don't have any memories of getting an allowance, although I think I did.  Back in the early 1970's, it probably would have been a dollar per week.  But shoot -- that was four comics!  My dad wasn't around much when I was little, but I remember that he wasn't the least bit excited about my interest in comics.  I don't know that he talked down to me about it, but there were just enough comments made that it was clear where he stood.  Incidentally, I do think he was more in favor of my G.I. Joes, having served in the U.S. Army in the early '60's; Planet of the Apes was stupid, however.  Funny thing is, one of the last comic-related comments he made before the divorce was while looking at the Thor vs. Loki image in Marvel's 1977 calendar and saying of the John Buscema/Joe Sinnott image, "Man, those guys sure can draw muscles!"

Karen: For me too, my mom was always very supportive of my interests, particularly my more creative ones. Heck, she introduced me to the Universal monster films, Basil Rathbone's Sherlock Holmes, the Twilight Zone, and innumerable 50s sci fi films. My older brother brought comics into the house, but I was the one who really went bananas for them, and mom always encouraged my reading of them. She not only bought me comics, she took me to my very first comic book convention -the San Diego Comic Con in 1975. Mom enjoyed anything imaginative and over the top. I recall as a teen taking her to see Star Trek:The Wrath of Khan and The Empire Strikes Back at the theater. She had not been out to a movie theater in many years (she had been bedridden for several years when I was in my tweens) and the powerful, immersive sound system got her as pumped up as any 12 year old kid! At the time, I was annoyed but now I look back and smile. Dad has always been a much more practical guy. While he has never really understood my love of all this stuff, he's never put it down. I recall trips to the drugstore with him and he would pick up a comic or two for me.

Image found at Steve Does Comics
Doug:  As to comics I can recall relatives buying for me, there are a few.  I mentioned in the comments of last Friday's post that my sister and I spent a week in the western suburbs of Chicago with my uncle and aunt.  In 1975 I vividly recall a trip to an indoor amusement park called Old Chicago.  After going on some rides, we went out into the concourse to an ice cream shop.  There must have been some sort of gift shop adjacent to it, as I bird-dogged a spinner rack and instantly wrapped my 9-year eyeballs around it.  I am pretty sure I begged and pestered my aunt into buying me copies of Daredevil #'s 126-127 (October-November 1975) with the Torpedo, and Amazing Spider-Man #150 (November 1975), the epilogue to the "clone saga".  It was 75c well spent, I'm sure, as it probably kept me busy the rest of the day -- after I read them, I'm sure I would have asked for typing paper or tracing paper and done some of my own artwork.  As to specific books from my parents, we've discussed the Fireside books before, and I can recall each Christmas that I got one of the first five volumes, from Origins of Marvel Comics through Marvel's Greatest Superhero Battles.

Karen: For many years, Christmas at our household also meant Marvel goodies, including the "Origins" books as well as calendars. For specific comics, I can recall only a few. But one that  stands out is X-Men #114. When that issue came out, I had been laid up at home for some time with an illness, and there was little that brightened my mood. But when mom came home one day with that comic for me, it really picked me up. To this day I can see that cover in my head effortlessly. That one book lifted me out of a bad time and to this day is one of my favorite issues of the title, probably just for that reason alone. And also, I'll always connect it to my mom, and all her efforts to help me feel better when I was having a rough go of it.

Doug:  Well, the ball is in your court now.  Do you have some remembrances to share, of good deeds and kind relatives?


William Preston said...

What a great topic. Thanks for sharing your memories, Karen and Doug.

When I was a little kid, my mother bought me things like Casper and Richie Rich comics (especially if I was under the weather), and sometimes I picked out what I wanted. On a few occasions, that meant superhero comics. The only one I got on any regular basis was Superman. I don't recall comic buying ever being tied to my allowance, and once I started buying comics in earnest, around 1975, there's no way the pittance I earned would have covered comic purchases. (Nor my many other book purchases.)

For some reason, my father got very into taking me to conventions. I know the first or second one we attended had a lot of women in Red Sonja outfits, which I'm sure he found appealing (he kept pretending to look away), but it was more than that. It was a way to bond with me. Before that, we'd gone to lots of sports events in Philly—the Sixers, the Flyers—but I wasn't really a sports kid, much as I enjoyed those outings. One day, on a whim, after going to a comics shop in NJ at the Quakerbridge Mall, my dad drove us up to Manhattan just on the chance you could walk into the Marvel offices and say hi. Crazy, right? We rode up on the elevator and arrived as things were pretty much shutting down. Dave Cockrum's wife and another woman greeted us, but they were heading out, office doors were closed, and we headed home, but somehow it was a successful venture. My father also drove me to Philly a lot and dropped me off at comics shops; sometimes my parents would go to a restaurant while I'd go between the three comics stores, Comics for Collectors, Fat Jacks, and some magazine stand that often had discount racks of things from previous months.

My parents gave me money to support my collecting habit. I know my father saw it as a kind of investment, but I think both parents just wanted to support me in this thing in which I'd taken a keen interest (and which did give them gift ideas for Christmas).

Edo Bosnar said...

I'd also like to thank Karen & Doug for their stories, and William as well.
For me it was also my mom who rather benevolently tolerated and sort of abetted my comics hobby. (Karen, it was also my older brother who inadvertently started by comics habit when he bought a pair of comic books during a family vacation and then tossed them over to me after growing bored with them rather quickly.) My dad on the other hand, was initially quite contemptuous of the whole thing, esp. in my first few years of grade school - he occasionally threatened to forbid me from reading them (along with cutting down my TV watching privileges), usually because I was doing rather poorly in school. The thing was, we didn't speak English at home, and my problems at school were directly tied to that. When, in about the third grade, I started thoroughly reading my comics rather than just skimming over them and admiring the pictures, my language and reading skills improved vastly and my grades shot up as well.
After that, even my dad probably realized there were some benefits to my hobby, and while he never quite understood it, he didn't discourage it. Much. Thus, like many others here, I even got those Fireside books as Christmas presents from both parents in subsequent years.
By the way, since the issue of money came up, I never really had an allowance: my parents would give me a dollar or two when we went shopping, or my mom would just let me put a few comic books from the spinner rack in the grocery cart. Another source of income I recall was the deposit return on bottles and cans. In Oregon, where I grew up, it was 10 cents for glass bottles and 5 cents for cans and, later, plastic bottles. This was a really fast and easy way for a kid to gather up a few dollars for comics (and candy): my parents let me turn in the recyclables from our home and keep the money, and I also remember collecting bottles and cans thrown on the roadside by litterbugs .

Bruce said...

I was a very lucky kid. My parents were frugal (we rarely went out ot eat and I wore plenty of hand-me-down clothes). But they always made an exception for books, including comics. Mom & Dad felt that reading was probably the best thing a young person could do, so from early on, they were willing to indulge my comics habit. I tagged along with Mom on the weekly grocery store run, and a couple of comics always found their way into the cart.

Perhaps my favorite childhood memories are going with my Dad to the downtown newsstand in my small North Carolina hometown. This place had the largest selection of comics in town, and our Saturday morning comics run was a father-son routine for years. No matter how tired he may have been from work, I can't remember my Dad ever saying he didn't want to take me.

Comics aside, I couldn't have asked for better, more loving parents.

Matt Celis said...

my parents figured anything that gets a kid interested
in reading is a Good Thing. never had any issues, no pun intended. Mostly had Walt Disney and other funny animal comics until I was around 7-9. Wish I still had 'em!

david_b said...

Geez, I'd like to think I've shared WAY too much of comic memories with parents in past columns, not too much to add.

After my parents divorced in '72, my Dad would come to see me one day a month, just take me out for lunch and a department store or giftshop (where I eyed a particular comic a day or two before...).. He was poor, but would spring a dollar for a few items.

One fond memory in '73, riding in his car (he always drove/LOVED the big Continentals....), picked up Avengers 120, listening to Carpenters 'Top of the World' on the AM dial. As I've suggested for a column before, some comic/AM radio memories run pretty deep.

I still recall RUNNING home (a few miles distance) asking my mom for a dollar to buy the first Spiderman Treasury Edition. Oh, you KNOW when you have fantastic parents when they see your 'insides' ready to EXPLODE over something and they just open their wallet and say, 'Here you go..'. It didn't happen too often, but when it did it was priceless.

There's just too many memories.

As for parental 'understanding', my step-dad couldn't be convinced of the merits of comics, other than to keep me entertained (or quiet more likely) on long trips. My Dad indulged me to a point (ie, available cash..). My Mom didn't seem to mind at all, probably from a 'Getting good grades..? Why not..?' standpoint.

Karen said...

Like Matt, my parents were very supportive of reading. We had library cards before kindergarten! I think they recognized that the Marvel comics were expanding our vocabularies, because whenever I encountered a word I couldn't pronounce, or didn't understand, I would bring the comic to them.

My parents were very serious about both my brother and I going to college, as Dad had gone for a couple of years but never finished, and Mom only graduated from high school. They wanted more for us -as most parents do.

Doug said...

While no specific words come to mind, I know I was a better reader because of comic books.

I do have one specific memory when I blew my 2nd grade teacher right out of the water. We were in a reading circle, and she was beginning a short story with us. The main character's name was "Cornelius". She wrote it on the chalkboard and asked if anyone could sound it out and say it. My hand shot up like a missile and I said it clearly and confidently. She was amazed and asked how I knew such a long word.

With a group wink, all BABers know how little 7-year old Doug knew that word, don't we?


Anonymous said...

D&K: this is a great topic, and I’m sure every response to it will be very different in content, tone and what that parental influence meant to us.

In terms of money, I had enough pocket money to buy one comic per week, and that was it, nothing else, no sweets, no nothing. My parents monumentally disapproved of me reading comics. My mother constantly tried to wean off onto kids books, little realising that the Marvel comics I was reading had a higher reading age than the books she was trying to ‘improve’ me with.

I was actually a very slow learner at school (well, not actually slow, but because my birthday is end of May, and they started you whenever you hit five, I missed virtually the entire first year of school). I didn’t enjoy reading until I discovered comics on holiday, and my sister taught me to read my first one (‘ Bully Beef & Chips’ on the back of the Dandy, for the Brits...still remember, 40 years later).

My Dad just objected to me spending money on them until he took me to a comic shop (Dark They Were & Golden Eyed, again for the Brits) and he saw the value of the old ones displayed on the walls (to give you an idea of the stock, I bought FF#1 from there...which, relative to my current ‘economy’, would be the equivalent of about $171,000 to me now). I think he fell over backwards. I think it hadn’t actually occurred to him that they INCREASED in value at all.

Two happy memories of my grandmother: (1) giving me 9p (about 18c at the time) to buy Invaders #4 and (2) meeting me at the school gates with Marvel Team Up #37. For some reason, that cliff hanger with the Frankenstein Monster and the Man Wolf had me on the edge of my seat for an entire month. Literally ran home to read it. Thank you, again, Grandma!


Anonymous said...

Hi Doug – surely POTA was ubiquitous (another big word) enough for other kids to know that name? It was everywhere at that time! R

Doug said...

I am loving everyone's memories. Getting a little misty at times -- I say that sincerely!

Richard, one might think, huh? In my earliest years of elementary school I was always in the accelerated reading group. I honestly blame comics for any advantage I had at that time.

However, I'll confess that Amazing Spider-Man #155's cover call-out box with the word "Whodunit" just registered to this guy as WOD-UNIT. What the heck's a wodunit?


Mike said...

My dad was too busy working and when he did have time he was more of an outdoors/hunting type which I didn't really enjoy too much. My mom was the one making the decisions on what I could buy or not. Star Wars was the big thing so she would get me a character once in awhile. I remember my neighbors got every toy in the Lucas/Kenner empire, and I used to get jealous of that. Those brats wouldn't let me play with any of it either, so that just made it worse!

On comics I still remember mom buying me my first Batman comic - Batman #294. I still have it. When I was a little older she worked at a convenience store, so when the magazine guy showed up each week she would pick out the best comics for me to come in and spend my allowance money on. I never missed an issue. I felt like an insider!

Star Wars and superheroes never made any sense to her, but it made her boy happy so that was making her happy. And now my son, her grandson, is into superheroes and Star Wars ... so, every once in awhile, Grandma surprises my son with a new Batman sticker book or a Lego Star Wars t-shirt.

Its funny when I think back I realize that my parents didn't have much, but man they sure gave me a lot ... and they still are today.

david_b said...

Mike, you raise a good, well crafty memory..

I had a buddy whose split parents, I swear, would compete to buy him the most stuff. He had old Joe stuff I would DREAM of having, he had virtually every Johnny West figure/horse/accessory/town, you name it.

When it came to Megos and Kenner Star Wars, jeez, I felt like I walked into a toy store afterhours. I felt sort of sorry for him because he was a bit 'slow' and a year younger, but my Mom sure 'encouraged' me to spend afternoons by his house, perhaps in part to save money, I don't know. He had all the Trek Megos and models, you name it. He was a nice kid, but sure had the stuff..

I still have a good memory with another friend whose mom once gave us both a quarter one afternoon to buy snacks. He bought a bag of chips, me Spiderman 129. I vividly remember looking at me like I was 'outofmyhead' for buying a comic.

I didn't have the heart to tell him what I eventually sold it for, 20yrs later.

Edo Bosnar said...

Doug: a unit of wod, what else? :)
That actually brought a smile to my face, as I recall mispronouncing a lot of words in my head like that. One that comes to mind is something I read in a reprint of a Silver Age FF story: the Thing saying "for th' luvva Pete!" For some reason, I was reading it as "loova" and couldn't figure out what it meant, so I had to ask my older sister. She got a good laugh out of that one...

Matt Celis said...

my son got his library card at 2 years old! need to get his little sister one as well...

Inkstained Wretch said...

My parents at best tolerated my comics addiction, but they also released giving me a dollar to spend on a pair of comics was a great way to quiet me down for a half-hour. So they occasionally indulged me during trips to the grocery store, pharmacy, 7-11 etc.

Mostly though, I had to buy them myself and when we lived in Connecticut that meant riding my bike a good mile and down some steep hills to get to the nearest convenience store. Later we moved to northern Virginia where the local 7-11s were much easier to reach, and I could even stop by one on the way home from school.

I rationalized it to my folks by pointing out that I could have been spending the money on candy instead.

Matt Celis said...

I am pretty sure I learned words like "machinations" and "diabolical" from comics...and I KNOW I learned "initiative" from a roleplaying game because I was pronouncing it wrong until my mom corrected me.

Anonymous said...

My parents taught me to read before I went to Kindergarten and my dad was usually the one who paid for my comics. Like Karen, I remember going to my parents to ask what certain words meant...the usual response was "Look it up!"

Ironically, my dad is also the one who threw out all my late 70s-early 80s comics :(

Mike W.

Karen said...

Mike, we had this huge dictionary in the living room. The thing must have weighed ten pounds! It was frequently consulted when reading. I seem to recall looking up "poltroon" while reading the Kree-Skrull War!

mr. oyola said...

Being a single parent, my mom was buys and working too often to have a day-to-day view over what I did. I think she was just happy that between comics, Lego, books and cartoons I preferred to stay in than to wander around Brooklyn (too much).

My sister, however, is seven years older than me and always encouraged my interests and kind of doted on me. So once the weather got warm we'd get on our bikes and she accompany me to various flea markets and garage sales looking for comics. Back then I didn't have much access to comic shops, not the money to pay the inflated prices of back issues, but since the potential value of old comics was not so widely held knowledge at the time, I could still find boxes of old comics that surely belonged to kids away at college or just not around who would have prevented their parents from liquidating their stash if they had known.

It became a weekly tradition to get the Home Reporter (a local paper) and check the classifieds for reports of yard sales, makes a list, map a route and then check them out come Saturday or Sunday.

MikeS said...

This may be a little off topic, but one particular remembrance is 40 years ago this very day (yes I remember the exact day) was the day I bought and read Amazing Spider-Man # 121, the infamous Night Gwen Stacy Died. I remember reading it in the back seat of my parents' car on the way home from a movie (squinting at it by passing street lights since it was night time) and looking at that eerie "home alone" drawing of Norman when his mind snaps. Remember that like it was yesterday.

Anonymous said...

So many great stories everyone. I'll just add this brief one. My parents just sort of tolerated my comic reading. Then, at a 7th grade parent-teacher conference, my mom lamented to my teacher that she wished she could get me to read something other than comics. My teacher then went on to rave about how great it was that little Tommy was into comics, going on and on about the imaginative plots, the vocabulary, etc. She pretty much told my mom to let that boy read all the comics he wants.

My mom left me alone after that.


Karen said...

Tom -bless that teacher!!

Mr. Oyola - thanks for reminding us about those big sisters and brothers too, that helped us with our comics hobby (obsession?).

William Preston said...

I learned a lot of great words from comics, mostly thanks to Reed Richards, but also thanks to the (now defunct) narrative voice in comics such as Deathlok.

One I'll always remember: interstitial, which I learned from a Dr. Strange comic.

Fred W. Hill said...

My parents never expressed any strong opinions about my comcis-reading habit, although my dad occasionally mentions me throwing a hissy fit after he threw out a bunch of my comics when I was 8 or 9 (in 1971, I think). I really have no memory of it -- maybe it was so traumatic my mind just blotted it out! In later years they did get me the Origins of Marvel Comics series for me on Christmas, as well as a few other comics-related gifts, so dad made up for that trauma!
My middle brother, btw, a whole 10 months younger than me never really got the Marvel Comics bug like I did, but as he knew how much I cherished them, he'd occasionally bug me by threatening to rip up some of my comics and a few times actually did -- one victim was my issue of Defenders #11.
Your memory is a lot better than mine, btw, MikeS. I remember the store where I bought Spider-Man #121, a tiny store where my brother and I got our candy, soda and comics about a half hour bike ride from our apartment in Salt Lake City. (Drinks a toast to the memory of our long departed childhoods and poor Gwen, we hardly knew ye).

david_b said...

Fred, MikeS, wish I had a story like yours about Spidey 121, but I only picked up a VF copy of it last year for a hundred ("FINALLY..!!").

But I do clearly remember first picking up ish 125 off the newstands, reading on-and-on about everyone's excitement regarding both 121 and 122 in the Letters Page, and a few weeks later picking up ish 122 in a '3-for-1' bag for 49 cents.

Yes, I suddenly figured out 'what all the hubbub was about'.

Anonymous said...

Hmm, my parents were never actually big on comics or reading themselves, but they never discouraged my big brother and me from reading either. In fact, if I told them I wanted to buy Spider-Man #100 or whatever, my mom would just give me the money and say 'Here, go buy it'. She probably just wanted me to stop bugging her, but at least I got my comics!

My parents only had a rudimentary education; my brother and I went all the way to college. I think my parents realized that encouraging us to read not just comics but any and all literature in general would benefit us in life later on. Matt, I have no kids but if I did I'm gonna do like you and get them a library card as soon as they can walk!

- Mike 'thanks mom & dad' from Trinidad & Tobago.

Redartz said...

Wonderful topic today, and plenty of warm stories to bring a smile to this reader's face. I enjoyed the comments about the effect of comics reading upon vocabulary. The impact our hobby has had upon us as individuals could fill another column entirely.

My parents didn't quite understand my four color addiction, but in their kindness supported me generously. They would drive my to my best friend's house where we would do an overnight; poring over his collection ( as we would also do at our house on such nights). They even went so far as to present me with a copy of Avengers #1 for my 18th. Christmas (boy, do I wish I still had that...).

My father, in particular, found some interest in the comics world. He would often tell me of his childhood during WWII, describing the pile of comics he had in his room. Captain Marvel, Batman, Superman, Human Torch; all dating from the late 30's and early 40's. He was astounded to discover how much those books would be worth now, and would tell how they all were donated to the paper drives. He actually went so far as to buy a few of his old favorites once when we went to a flea market together (Roy Rogers, Mutt and Jeff, and others; they tended to be easier on the wallet than some of those other classics).

Graham said...

My earliest memory of comics is going with my mom to the Sunflower grocery store and her buying me a couple of 15 cent comics, like maybe Casper or Hot Stuff. Later on, after I started watching the Superman/Batman/Aquaman cartoon series on Saturdays, she would pick me up one of their comic books and I really started liking them. I was able to read at an early age (from reading road signs and watching commercials on TV) and I'm pretty sure she did this to encourage me to read more. I was maybe four or five when this was going on, but when I was older, about once a week, she would give me 50 to 75 cents and I would ride my bike to the local store and pick up a couple of the comics of my choice. That was always fun and exciting to me just thinking about what was going to be at the store when I got there, and I remember being really down when the store (the only one in town at the time) stopped carrying comic books a few years later.

My dad more or less tolerated my super-hero habit, but he would actually read the ones that I bought that featured Tarzan or the various cowboy comics. I think he would have rather I hunted and fished more though, like he did when he was my age, but I sort of disappointed him in that.

Rip Jagger said...

My Dad and especially my Mom were amazingly supportive of my comic book habit. Since we lived deep in the country of Eastern Kentucky, my Mom went to town usually once or perhaps twice a week for groceries and whatnot.

Since I was stranded in school, she very patiently took my list of desired comic books, mostly Marvels since I was able to cobble the list together from the promos on the Bullpen Bulletins page, and picked up the books for me. In retrospect this astounds me that she'd go to this much trouble.

I guess my folks thought I'd grow out of it, but I never have and the fact they never tried to make me counts for a lot when I look back on it.

Rip Off

vancouver mark said...

In 1966 I walked into grade one already knowing how to print "super-heroes" and many other words like "cosmic" and "colossal" that impressed Sister Margaret, the teacher.

Some of my very earliest memories are of studying my older cousins' comics, mostly Adventure Comics with LSH, other Superman titles, Turok, and Classics Illustrateds, desperately wanting to understand them, urgently needing to know why they put Lightning Lad in that little jail cell on Prison Asteroid in #321 or so.

Then when I was nine or ten I remember my Mom pulling up at the corner store and sending me in for something. Naturally I asked for a comic, and she gave me the customary twelve cents. I walked out of the store seconds later, probably staggering slightly, and told her that the new Adventure Comics was 15 cents. I needed three more pennies.
She gave me an exasperated look as she dug the pennies out of her change purse, saying "that's just too expensive for a comic book. Maybe we shouldn't buy them anymore," and sending a cold trickle of fear down my spine.*

I enjoyed reminding her of that story, five years later when I had a paper route and the Comicshop had opened and I spent thirty dollars on a rather beat-up FF #3, and again in '89 or so when for Christmas she spent twenty-five or so on a copy of Arkham Asylum as a present for me.

But back to early development, I know that comics gave me a voracity and a passionate urge for reading that set me up well for school. Between grade one and three my vocabulary and reading comprehension exploded.

From the beginning my mom insisted on a regular inclusion of Classics Illustrateds in my comics purchasing, which always made me grumble and moan in protest before I'd finally sit down and read them. A few days later I'd typically be at the library, taking out the novels.
By grade five I'd read stacks of Kipling, Verne, Wells, and Dickens, along with Edgar Rice Burroughs, Hardy Boys, and Arrow Scholastics like A Wrinkle In Time.

By grade seven I was assessed as reading at above a grade twelve level, and my favorite book was The Godfather. It all grew out of a love for comics, a desperate yearning to understand the colorful characters and what the hell was happening.

*That fifteen-cent Adventure Comics was a stunning disillusionment in another way. Along with the sticker shock came the cold realization that the Legion themselves were no longer IN Adventure. This new issue with the fat price-tag featured Supergirl! The LSH were no longer anywhere to be found!
Comics had never gone up in price before (in my experience), and no long-time series I liked had ever been cancelled.

It was all just so WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!

William said...

My parents were never all that supportive of my comic book reading habits. They didn't forbid it or anything, but they definitely didn't encourage it. Despite that I managed to acquire quite a large collection (especially of Spider-Man) in both comics and other merchandise.

Other than comics, I have always been a big action figure collector. I started with Megos and it continues to this day with Marvel Legends and DC Universe Classics.

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