The Height of My Comics Buying, and Other Stuff I've Liked

Doug: Last weekend we spent some time recollecting our comics purchases during September of 1983. Several commenters remarked that they were either done or nearly done with a phase in their comics collecting experience; others left a note that they felt the output during that particular area was a) subpar and even b) above par! How in the world could our experiences (and perceptions of those experiences) be so different? All of our bus drivers are here today to start our weekend conversation.

Redartz: My personal comics peak was a fairly lengthy one, stretching from 1974 to about 1981. Early in '74 I got hooked on Marvel, especially, and was hungrily sampling title after title. There were so many to choose from, aside from obvious favorites like Amazing Spider-Man and Avengers! Loved all the Giant-Size books, loved anything by Steve Gerber. Through the end of the decade I probably averaged about 20 titles a month, mostly Marvel but with a few DC's here and there. These seven years were filled with great creators and great books -- Englehart, Shooter, Byrne, Perez, Rogers, and so on. Such a time for variety and experimentation -- truly something for everyone!
Prior to '74, I was in an Archie phase, which vanished upon my intro to Marveldom (although the Archie interest would return some years later in the form of back issue hunting, especially some earlier 50s and 60s comics). However, many books from the Silver and early Bronze Age soon joined my collection -- particularly Marvel Team-Up, Conan, ASM, Fantastic Four, and Avengers (really loved that "Avengers/Defenders War"-- that one title sure had a bounty of great storylines).

But by 1981, I was in college -- money was tighter, and my interests were shifting. Within just a couple years my comic purchases would drop to less than 10 per month, including several Indie titles like Journey, Neil the Horse, and Mr. X. Many mainstream titles started to lose their appeal for me. I kept up Spider-Man as my longtime favorite, but even quit on him after the Defalco-Frenz period. By the mid 80's I was only buying Byrne's Fantastic Four regularly, and irregular issues of Spectacular Spider-Man, Action Comics, Batman and a few others. I quit X-Men after Paul Smith left, and by the end of the 80s I was mostly out of comics.

Not entirely, though -- there were books from that era, and later, that I bought and enjoyed. McFarlane's run on Amazing Spider-Man brought me back, and I really enjoyed them. Comico ran a fine Jonny Quest series I collected in its entirety. There was Watchmen, Crisis on Infinite Earths, and in '91 DC did a fun miniseries with Angel and the Ape. I started buying “Simpsons Comics” when they debuted. So looking back, even though the comics wonderland I explored in the 70s seemed long gone, there was still some good reading to be had. No doubt there was much more that I missed out on completely (young parenthood really limits that disposable income).

Doug: You know, because of the timing of my hiatus, I never warmed to the Indies. In fact, it wasn't until Dark Horse began the "Legend" imprint that I regularly bought independent comics. So all the talk from our friends of Cerebus, Mister X, Elfquest, et al. has me on the outside looking in. And to respond to some of the comments from last weekend, I did feel that the overall quality of art at Marvel had declined during my absence as compared to when I quit buying. I am not saying there was no quality at all -- maybe I'm prejudicial to what I'd known, and I felt that the "House style" was changing.

My best guess is that I was a regular comic book buyer by the time 1973 rolled around. Please understand, though, that at the ripe old age of 7, "regular" meant that I had a very short stack of comics. But I would ask for them when I saw them, and soon gravitated to the Avengers, the Fantastic Four, and Amazing Spider-Man. By the time I was 10 (1976), I was buying a whole bunch of titles -- when I could find them. The three just mentioned were soon joined by Peter Parker, Marvel Team-Up, Marvel Two-In-One, X-Men, Teen Titans, Superboy and the Legion of Super-Heroes, the Champions, Thor, the Secret Society of Super-Villains, Batman, Batman Family, Invaders, Green Lantern/Green Arrow, Daredevil, Super-Villain Team-Up, Conan, the Giant-Size, Annuals and Dollar Comics, Marvel Treasury Editions and DC's Limited Collector's Editions, and many more. I would continue as such right up until the summer of 1980 when I'd graduated the 8th grade and thought I was "too cool" for comics as I entered high school. As I've remarked, comic books and the like simply did not have the sort of social acceptance that they do now, and as a football player and a young man definitely on the market for a steady girlfriend, I made the (erroneous) assumption that all that would not mix. It would take until my sophomore year of college before I got my mind right on that subject.

So what have I liked since the "return" and before the final "departure" (back in 2005)? I have enjoyed The Dark Knight Returns on many readings. I initially liked John Byrne's revamp of Superman, and really got into George Perez's Wonder Woman. All of that came after Crisis on Infinite Earths, which in spite of what it did to the Legion, Supergirl, and other characters I'd really liked, I enjoyed. Retroactively, I thought the Roger Stern/John Buscema/Tom Palmer run on the Avengers was quite good. I stuck with Amazing Spider-Man way past when it stopped being fun (pretty much when Todd McFarlane left). Frank Miller's Sin City stories were solid, as was Jeff Smith's Bone. I could go on, but I'll just say this -- and maybe this is from the perspective of a child -- I have never been as excited to read comics as I was when I was a wee fellow. In fact, the things I get giddy for nowadays are the announcements of collections of material from the Bronze Age. When I first saw solicitations for the Marvel Firsts series... Be still, my heart!

Martinex1: The bell curve of my primary collecting phase ran from the Summer of ’77 into 1981. I can almost track my attention to comics around the ebbs and flows of Avengers’ stories as that was the group I followed most attentively. So the John Byrne and George Perez era of art on that team book really defined my heyday. During that time the Claremont-Byrne Uncanny X-Men were also peaking. The Micronauts and ROM made their first appearances. And the Michelinie-Layton Iron Man stories were revitalizing the title. That era of comics is by far my favorite and one I return to often. I was very much a Marvel fanatic at that time. My attention trailed off a bit as I turned thirteen, entered high school, and The Avengers just passed their 200^th issue.

I continued to collect intermittently with some great spikes along the way as friends and I still had those general interests, but my passion for comics never had the same steam it had in the late 70’s.

But I must mention an additional highpoint and that includes comics from 1969 to 1971. As I’ve mentioned before, my cousin supplied quite the selection of “old” comics and most were from this time period. The timeframe  rides the wave when Marvel was in conversion from 12 cent to 15 cent comics. And like those in the above years, I have a particular fondness for these issues. So I was exposed very early to both John and Sal Buscema’s art on the Avengers, from the Kang-Grandmaster challenge to Brainchild and the Squadron Supreme to the start of the Kree-Skrull War, and read those particular books over and over again. Jack Kirby was finishing up his tenure on the Fantastic Four.  And early issues of Captain Marvel and Sub-Mariner had my attention. That really shaped my expectations for more current off-the-rack comics. It also made my enjoyment of books like What If in the late ‘70s so acute as I was familiar with the backstories.

I missed out on most comics from 1972 to 1975, so it is interesting that I do not look as favorably on the Marvel comics with the window bordered covers. And in Avengers’ history, I am not a big fan of the Englehart period. It really just goes to what I was exposed to at a particular age.

In my frequent returns to comics over the decades, I have enjoyed the Stern-Buscema Avengers, particularly the “Under Siege” arc. I’ve liked books like The Exiles, Mark Waid’s run on The Flash, and Busiek’s Thunderbolts. But comparatively, I always gravitate to the comics of my youth.

Karen: It's difficult to single out just one period of time -I can think of three distinct phases where I felt very absorbed by what was going on in comics. The first would have been around 1974-1978, and I was focused almost exclusively on Marvel, with Legion of Super-Heroes being my only real exception. I was enamored with practically everything Marvel was putting out - all the mainstream books, like Avengers, Fantastic Four, Spider-Man, Captain America, Thor, but also the more unusual titles, like Warlock, Defenders, Iron Fist, and of course, the all-new, all-different X-Men. In fact, although my husband and most of my geeky friends think of me as an Avengers fan first  -and indeed, Doug and I first became friends on the old Avengers Assemble board - I realize that X-Men was the book that gripped me the most as a pre-teen. It was the one title  I just read over and over until the next issue came out -and it was bimonthly at first, so it was a long wait. 

Then, after a slower period, around 1982 I became interested in some of the independent titles like Love and Rockets, Nexus, Elfquest, along with titles from the Big Two that were outside their mainstream. At this time, I was working in a comic book store, so it was easy for me to sit and read practically everything, and I was able to take a chance on books that I might have passed up otherwise. Finding stories outside the super-hero genre was exciting; it opened me up to other possibilities for the medium.

But once I went off to college, my buying became less frequent. I still managed to keep up with some stories - I got all four issues of Batman: The Dark Knight when they came out - but comics weren't a priority for me anymore. After I graduated, I would occasionally pop into a comic store and pick up a few books, to try to get back into the hobby. But I found much of the Marvel universe to be impenetrable -particularly X-Men, which had expanded to galactic proportions. I felt like I was done.

Oddly enough, I was pulled back into comics initially by a DC Comic! I started reading JSA by Geoff Johns and Steve Sadowski around 2000, and this toehold evolved into 12+ books a month at its peak, until about 2006, when I felt I could no longer relate to the characters or enjoy the stories in most of the titles any more. I pick up an occasional book now but mostly focus on TPB collections of back issues, or non-super-hero trades, like the recent Star Trek/Planet of the Apes crossover. I would agree with Martinex though -seemingly as I get older I find myself more drawn to the books I loved most as a young child. It's delightful when I can find something new that gives me the same feeling!

Doug: So there you have it from us. Hopefully we get a nice conversation with lots of participation. Have a nice weekend, everyone! 

A Simple Question About Old Comics

Doug: When did you become enamored with "old" comics? When was your realization that something had come before? For example, in the 25c era, I about wet my pants the first time I laid eyes on a "12-center". The Holy Grail had been published monthly ten years earlier!

Summer 1989 - When We Were Bat-Maniacs

Doug: So I pack-ratted a bunch of Batman stuff. What's it to you?

Doug: I've been taking advantage of my holiday break to move past comic books and into other books and memorabilia in my attempt to "cull the herd", so to speak. In fact, here's a plug for my auctions -- lots of new stuff goes live tonight (12/30) at 7:00 pm CT here in the States. In addition to the lot you see above, you'll find some Marvel Masterworks, various trade paperbacks, comic history books, etc. But back to this stuff -- yeah, I was that guy who grabbed whatever I could in a fit of Batmania ahead of the June 1989 release of Tim Burton's first Batman film. I was so excited that Bats was going to get the silver screen treatment. I had just loved Superman: The Movie and Superman II and had very high hopes for the Batman movie, too. Count me among those who were skeptical about Michael Keaton as the choice to play our hero... Now some 26 years later, he looks even better in the role!

Doug: But the real reason -- the real reason -- I wanted to discuss Batmania today was the hidden gem you see below. Yes, I saved the funny pages out of the Chicago Sun-Times from Sunday, November 12, 1989 when Marshall Rogers's newspaper strip began. The plot spun out of the events of the first Bat-film. NOTE: You may notice that the image is spliced -- my scanner was just a wee bit small to accommodate the width of the paper. But this is awesome! Who doesn't love themselves some Rogers Batman? Please enjoy.

UPDATE: Many readers in our comments section have noted that they did not know this strip even existed. Well, after a not-too-strenuous Internet search, I've found a blog with lots of great scans. Enjoy, courtesy of Scans Daily.

A Simple Question About Your Comic Book Collection

Doug: At the height of your comics possessing, how large was your collection? You can estimate the number of books you had in gross numbers, number of longboxes, etc. And if you want to talk about periphery goods, that would be nice as well.

The Spinner Rack - a Variation on a Theme

Doug: No month and year for you today, kids. Nope -- I have something else in mind. Today's a tell-all from you to the rest of the BAB community. Our fun this time around is going to be in telling of those books that you recall obtaining at a specific time and place. I'm sure many of us know that we used to get a stack of comics in a cardboard box shipped from a place like Westfield Comics and brought to us by the UPS man. Others among us (looking at you, HB) used to subscribe to a few titles and eagerly awaited the mailman's arrival after a certain amount of time had passed. And that's cool - we've all been there. Let me show you what I'm after --

Purchased for me by my Aunt Mary while at the Old Chicago indoor amusement park.

Purchased by my summer sitter, my mom's cousin, at Southside Drugs in Kankakee, IL

Purchased by me after my mom drove me all over town looking for it. Bought it at Mickey's Books and Novelties (yup - those kinds of "books and novelties". Hey, I was 11; I didn't see anything other than the spinner rack! I swear...)

Now How In the World Did That Happen?

Doug: Today we're talking about those head-scratchers in the condition of your comic books. Defects, accidents, mishaps, even odd marks that you have no idea how they occurred. These can be books you have owned or seen. The troubles in question may even have been caused by you.

Doug: So why this topic? As has been well-documented, I've been selling my comic collection for the past 11 months via eBay. I've made a serious dent in it, having emptied five longboxes with a sixth knocking on the door. I've told our readers that there have been some victories along the way, but for most of my books I'm seeing revenues in the area of 30% to 33% of the prices in the latest Overstreet Guide. Many of the books I'm selling were purchased at retail by me, but several hundred were bought as back issues. What I've found is that in many cases those books are still in the bags in which I brought them home -- price stickers, dealer grades and all.

Doug: Which brings us to today's exhibit. Pictured below is my copy of Marvel Feature #11, which ended last night (and is no longer my copy). Here's the description I included with the listing, and I'll stop writing now -- once you read it and inspect the book's cover, I think you'll be able to fully discuss the question at the top of this post: Now how in the world did that (hole in the cover) happen?

Up for bid is a good looking copy of Marvel Feature #11, the first try-out issue for what eventually become Marvel Two-In-One.. I am no professional grader, so please consult the scans when choosing to bid. 

11  I am not going to put a grade on this one. I so wanted to say "high grade" in the listing, because when you first look at this comic's front and back covers, you'll say "wow..." However, if you check the front cover scan you'll see my reservation (and it's a big one if you're a serious collector). Notice the white call-out arrow near the Hulk corner box -- you can see a hole (yup - an actual hole) in the cover at the top of the arrow. And at the bottom of the arrow is a mark that looks like it wanted to become a hole, too! It's not pushed through, but is a noticeable blemish nonetheless. So that being said, I think you'd agree that the rest of the book would grade VF. But I can't get past the obvious defects on the front cover. Interior pages look great with sharp corners and off-white brightness.

We're All a Bunch of Comic Book Men (and Women) Around Here

Karen: A big part of being a comic book fan is collecting. We collect comics, and all the stuff associated with comics -figures, posters, toys, you name it, if it has anything to do with comics, we probably will love it, and we may buy it, depending on our income and mood. At the very least, we love to talk about buying and selling those sought-after goodies.  It's not just comics either -Godzilla, Star Wars, Star Trek....well, you know how it is. We just saw David B's Cube of Wonder, Doug has been entertaining us all with his tales of selling his collection, and we've shown off acquisitions from time to time here. So collecting, collectibles, and collections are all regular topics around here.

But we've never discussed the TV show that revolves around this subject -AMC's Comic Book Men, which looks at the going-ons at writer/director/uber-geek Kevin Smith's comic store, Jay and Silent Bob's Secret Stash in Red Bank, New Jersey. If you haven't seen it, here's a taste below:

The other day, we got a big surprise in the BAB mailbox when we received a missive from the casting assistant for  Comic Book Men. She asked if we could help spread the word that they are looking for fans/collectors to appear on the show's upcoming fifth season. We said we might know a few people who would be interested! So check out the flyer below. But for our discussion today, do you have a Holy Grail item you'd really love to track down? Maybe something you'd get if money was no object?

Guest Post - Recollecting on Collecting

Doug: Welcome to another guest post in what is becoming a long line of guest-writing here on the Bronze Age Babies. Karen and I are excited for not only what has gone before, but for posts already in the queue that will be winging your way in the not-too-distant future. Today we welcome Mike S., better known to friends and foes as Martinex1. Mike pens a love letter to comic books and comics collecting, and we're sure you'll want to discuss your passion for the hobby as he so eloquently does below. 

Martinex1: I was doing some reorganizing of my long boxes and comic art this past weekend, and as I came across certain books and original pages, it caused me to reminisce. I suspect that enjoying memories is a big part of collecting comics. Like all entertainment and art, comics are an escape. For me it’s a chance for my imagination to go places I never can, while at the same time thinking about childhood and the fun and growth of those days.

Comics were interwoven in my life from a very young age. I grew up in the south suburbs of Chicago in a large family within a larger family. My six brothers and sisters and I had an extended family that seemed to poke into many neighborhoods. We were all very close knit, from my Grandfather who lived right next door to us, to the many aunts and uncles and second cousins and relations that lived in the sturdy brick bungalows in the city. On a fairly regular basis, our family of nine would load into our van and visit my great grandmother; she was a tiny woman of Polish descent who lived in a doily filled duplex and treated us to Pringles and Goofy Grape punch. Upstairs from her lived an aunt and uncle and their three older teenaged boys.  

My first memories of that house and those family members are from around age five, and they are some very vivid and happy memories indeed, particularly those around my cousin Joey. Joey was the middle son who lived upstairs; he was thin and wiry and soft spoken. He was about 18 at that time, but he always had time for us youngsters. Most impactful to me was the fact that Joey was a collector. Every dresser and shelf in his room had sports’ bobble heads adorning them. He had Bears bobble heads, and White Sox bobble heads, and hockey bobble heads.  My brothers and I would run around the room trying to get them all nodding simultaneously to his shouts of, “Cut it out. Cut it out”, and laughter.  Joey also had G.I. Joes, not the small ones that came out in the ‘80s, but the tall military characters.  He had their jeeps, and their weapons, and their space capsule as well. Joey had large plastic figurines of army men, and Vikings, and knights. They were similar to the small army men that you can purchase 200 at a time and appear in Toy Story, only these were about 4 inches tall and very detailed.  And Joey had comic books. Stacks and stacks of comic books were tied neatly in his closet with soft twine.  We could hardly ever touch them while we were there, but we could see the stacks and make out some of the books on top… Avengers, Fantastic Four, Sgt. Fury and his Howling Commandos. He kept them stacked nicely, all in their spot, all in order. The brightness of the covers, with the characters in their costumes in dramatic poses, called to us. Once in a while, one would be lying about free and the kids in my family would quietly page through it; I distinctly remember looking at a Sub Mariner comic as a graduation party carried on throughout the house.  But that was rare; Joey kept the comics tucked away for the most part. 

Joey was very giving. Over the course of our visits to their house, he would always give us something he no longer had need for, so the G.I. Joes, and their supplies, and the Vikings and knights were soon ours.  It was like Christmas whenever we went visiting, and I can remember countless hours playing at home with all of those toys.

After one of the family parties, in which the kids had their fill of Shasta soda pulled from large ice tubs, we climbed into the van and took our places. As my mom got in she loaded a cardboard box into our midst. What was it? What was it? I am sure all of our hearts leapt with the excitement. I was shocked.  It was a huge box of COMICS!

I can recall a lot of them, but I probably cannot remember most even today.  Some stand out in my memories; some are lost to the hazy clouds of time.   He gave us Avengers!  Avengers #s 34 and 35 with the Living Laser, #59 with Yellowjacket, #61 with the Black Knight and Dr. Strange, #69 with the Growing Man, #71 with the Invaders, #86 with that big headed Brainchild. Wow! And also Silver Surfer 2, Iron Man 21, Fantastic Four 87, Captain Marvel 17, and more and more and more. There were Archies, stacks and stacks of Archies:  PEP, Jughead, Lil’ Archies, Betty and Veronica. And Sad Sack, lots of Sad Sack. And Sgt. Fury, dozens of Sgt. Fury.  

A side note: with the G.I. Joes, army men, Sgt. Fury, Sad Sack, etc., it was obvious Joey had an affinity for anything related to WWII; his father was in the war and we knew of him as Uncle Jeep (because he drove a jeep in the war and the name stuck from those days when his buddies simply called him, “Jeep” instead of his given “Eugene”).  

Joey gave us so many comics, and being a collector today I know that those books were difficult to part with.

All of those comics were thrust into our little grubby hands.  And we read them over and over and over again until sadly the staples loosened and the covers fell off. I read them at the kitchen table while eating Honeycomb cereal. I read them during commercials while watching Sigmund and the Sea Monsters on Saturday morning. I read them by flashlight in a tent on a vacation stop at a KOA.   I read every inch of those comics. I didn’t even understand some of the words, but I read them.   And I drooled over the “Coming Soon” advertisements of future issues. And I wondered what happened in chapters that I was missing (IE. Avengers #60, the marriage of Yellowjacket and Wasp).  I read every checklist. I read every letter. I particularly read the Marvels until I memorized them.  And I loved every minute.  

Over the next couple of years, that was my exposure to comics. They were all gifts from Joey.  

When I was eight years old, my mom told me that Joey was sick; I can remember the conversation and I can remember not truly understanding. He had leukemia. It was discovered after a minor injury would not heal correctly. Within only a matter of months, Joey died. I can remember that conversation too; I can remember exactly where I was when I found out. I had to miss the wake and funeral because I had the chicken pox. I stayed home alone (in those days kids did that) and I read comic books and thought about my cousin. To this day, even as I type these words, I miss him tremendously.

Within a year or so, my mom bought me my first “new” comic. I was shopping with her at the local Jewel-Osco, and they had on a rack three bagged comics for less than a dollar. She let me pick one bag. It contained an Amazing Spider-Man, a Marvel Two-In-One, and an Invaders issue. I was ecstatic. I could not believe the Thing had his own series, and I saw more of what Captain America was doing back in WWII. I have to give my mother credit, because not only did she buy them for me, but she read them too. She was probably just checking to see if it was appropriate for me, but I distinctly remember her chuckling and saying, “It is very tongue in cheek”.

Not long after, I was venturing to the corner drug store and buying comics from the rack. My first purchase, using money from my part in a paper route, was Avengers #164. That is still my favorite comic in so many ways. To come in at the start of the Nefaria storyline with Byrne interiors and a Perez cover helped, but the issue brought together so many characters that I had known from the days my cousin shared comics. The Living Laser and Whirlwind were there; it had Black Panther and Yellowjacket too, but it also had some new guys I didn’t know yet like Wonder Man and the furry Beast. The continuity in the story and in my life just made sense; it made me happy.

Somewhere in my mind, even back then I wanted to collect everything that Joey had given me that as youngsters we had mishandled and destroyed. As I reached my teenage years, I set out to gather everything I could remember in that wonderful cardboard box. The first back issue I purchased was Avengers #47 with Scarlet Witch, Quicksilver, and Magneto.  It filled a gap. One down, dozens to go.

It has been easy for me, even 40 years later, to remember the Marvel Comics that I had to replace.   They had so extreme an impact. Honestly, I struggle to remember the DC issues, and I am sure I have not replaced them all in my collection yet. I can remember certain images or parts of storylines, but I have not been able to pin them all down. I recently came across a cover of the Flash that sparked a memory. Archies all started looking the same to me; I could remember some stories, but identifying the cover or issue I needed was near impossible. I’ve known for a long time that a gap is” Dennis the Menace Goes to Hawaii” but I have not made a purchase on that yet. 

 

There is also one issue that I know we had that I am afraid I will never be able to afford: X-Men #1.  Yes, unbelievable but true, I know we had it because I distinctly remember Iceman sliding down the pole on the first page and dressing like a snowman. I didn’t realize it until I read the reprint in Amazing Adventures much later. 

My preferences have always been superheroes and particularly Marvel characters, so my collection has grown in that way. I am sure my collection is far beyond anything Joey could have imagined, with plastic bags, and long boxes, and trades, and CGC, and original art. It has been fun to share some of it with my nieces and nephews and now my young sons, although they are more interested in Legos and Skylanders. That’s okay; maybe someday they will share the passion or maybe not. The main thing is that we share the imagination.

This all got me to wondering how the folks at the BAB site stumbled into comics, what their influences are, and what they think about comic collecting as part of their life.

So, how did your collecting of comics start? Did you happen into the local convenience shop or drug store to buy candy and have your eye caught by the four color magic on the spinner rack? Or were you led to the hobby by somebody you knew; did a family member or friend share the experience? What were your first comics and are they still amongst your favorites? Was it a Marvel, or DC, or Archie, or some funny animal book that first spiked your imagination? Do you still have that first book and how well do you remember it? Did you have a special book that was lost to the ages?

What makes your Bronze Age gold?