Thursday, May 17, 2012

The Voice


Doug:  So it occurred to me last week when Karen led the Hulk discussion that some characters may be easier to write than others.  And I don't say that with the supposition that the "dumb Hulk" is a slam dunk by any means.  I'm sure writing in that immature 1st-person form (I guess one could argue it's third person), with a certain charm and silliness all wrapped into one, isn't always easy.  On the other hand, is a stuffy Reed Richards a simple character to write?  I think a character that has had many different voices is the Batman.  We've seen him run from the over-the-top camp of Adam West to the current incarnation of "the G-D Batman!"  Bro-therrrr.  The latter seriously aggravates me -- I think it has no place in a mass marketed comic book, first of all, and secondly (we've talked about this around here) it gives off the air that the Batman is more unbalanced and dangerous than the very criminals he's supposed to bring to justice.  And please pardon Mr. Wayne's French, so to speak, in the art exhibit below.


So what sayest thou?  Who do you think has to be handled with care to sound "right"?  Who are some writers who are really good at nailing it, and where have there been times when you were left scratching your head (how on earth did that guy get that assignment?)?  Thank you for your thoughts!

 


As many of you have heard by now, the Queen of Disco, Donna Summer, passed away today after a bout with cancer.  Here's a little tribute for fellow Bronze Agers who appreciated (even if you're in the closet) that era:


Wednesday, May 16, 2012

Discuss: UFO


Karen: Picking back up with the sci-fi TV show countdown: What say you about Gerry Anderson's UFO? Groovy or grotty?


Tuesday, May 15, 2012

Falling In and Out of Love and Then Back In Again (and Then Maybe Out...)

Good day, and welcome back to another discussion.  Building off of last week's post on series that at some point "jumped the shark", today we're going to ask about how you got into comics in the first place -- how old were you, what attracted you, did you have friends who collected, etc?  Many of us then at some point fell out of the hobby -- due to that jumped shark, economics, or whatever.  Using a suggestion originally made by david_b, that is your charge today -- a little personal history lesson from you to us!  Thanks in advance for your contributions.

David_b suggested:  perhaps naming any characters, artists, trends (or local comic shops) that brought you into hard-core collecting, and what made you leave, then fall in love all over again.

Doug, I recall we both collected early on, only to have a re-emergence during our college years, pretty much around the same time frame (early 80s).

Edo Bosnar seconded:  I like david_b's idea as well, i.e., a discussion of what brought us into or back into comics.

Monday, May 14, 2012

Return of the Goblin: Amazing Spider-Man 137


Amazing Spider-Man #137 (October 1974)
"The Green Goblin Strikes!"
Gerry Conway-Ross Andru/Frank Giacoia/Dave Hunt

Karen: It's time to wrap up the return of the Goblin. The final part of our story begins with the Goblin -Harry - causing a big rig to crash, and then stealing a metallic cylinder from it. Considering the word "atomic" is written on the side of the truck, I think we can be assured that whatever he's stolen, it's pretty dangerous stuff. He grabs the cylinder and flies off into the night cackling madly.

Doug: Ummm... First off, why in the world would a semi carrying that sort of payload broadcast it to the world? Secondly, and again given the cargo, don't you think the drivers would be armed, or escorted by law enforcement? Thirdly (geez, I'm curmudgeonly today -- must be because I'm actually typing this on Saturday, when we ran the "Suspension of Disbelief" query), if the truck is full of atomic weapons, why the heck wouldn't a megalomaniac take it all?
Karen: Meanwhile, Spidey has been searching for Harry for two nights, with no success. He muses that maybe, given some more time, Harry will calm down and get over the whole thing, but Peter doesn't really seem to buy this. He goes on auto-pilot and swings back home, only to see the burnt-out shell of his apartment. Yes, he'd actually forgotten that his old buddy rigged a bomb and blew up their apartment! I think that explosion must have given him a concussion. How do you forget something like that? He decides that after two nights without sleep, he has to find somewhere to crash. Again on auto-pilot, he winds up at the hospital where Mary Jane is being treated for her injuries from the explosion.
Doug: I suppose, given how spacey Peter often is, I'll give him the "forgot the bomb" angle of this plot. It was an interesting way to get readers who may have missed last issue caught up -- a simple thought balloon while web-swinging would have done it, but this is maybe more effective visually.

Karen: Once inside the hospital, Peter discovers that the gang's all there -really, they all are! Robbie Robertson, Flash Thompson, Liz Allen and even J. Jonah Jameson have all co
me out of concern for Mary Jane and Peter. To top it all off, Aunt May comes tottering in too! As Pete and Aunt May enter Mary Jane's room, Flash notes that only one friend is missing -Harry. On a side note, these 70s fashions are killing me. Liz Allen is bizarre, with her stacked heels, midriff-baring shirt, and white pants with green leaves pattern!

Doug: Strange that Aunt Anna Watson wasn't there, too.

Karen: MJ is doing well, and she turns on the radio just in time for Peter to hear about a man in a green costume on a flying bat attacking a truck. He makes an excuse about having to get pictures for the Bugle and rushes out, with Aunt May saying even she doesn't understand him. In the hall, Peter and Jonah run into one another. JJJ tries to make amends with Peter -remember the weird coda to last issue, with Pete storming out of JJJ's office? -but Peter brushes him off. I still don't know what that's all about.

Doug: I'm thinking tha
t in most business circles, flicking your boss's hand off of your jacket while telling him you just got it cleaned would constitute burning a bridge. Pretty bold on Pete's part.

Karen: Back in his web-slinging persona of Spider-Man,
Peter locates the truck Harry attacked. Two policemen are questioning the truckers. Hey Doug, did you notice the VW van that passes by the scene? Did you think of Scooby Doo too? Spidey listens in on the conversation and finds shards of a broken pumpkin bomb in the front seat. Did he really need that to convince him this was the Goblin's work? As he's checking it out one of the cops sees him and Spidey takes off. He has an idea where to find his former best friend turned psycho.

Doug: With a different paint job, that definitely could have been the Mystery Machine! Question -- when Spidey swung from the roadside up onto the semi-trailer, how was he not seen or heard by those below? And what did he attach his webline to?

Karen: That's a good question. I also wondered how no one saw or heard him. Spider stealth? Harry, still dressed as the Goblin, is back at Osborn's empty townhous
e. Spidey comes crashing through the window, and tries to talk to Harry, telling him he's not well. He dodges Harry's attempts to attack him and glues Harry's foot to the floor with his webbing. But it's obvious that Harry is too far gone to listen. Harry's positive that Peter killed his Dad and wants revenge. However, Harry has none of the true Goblin's skills. He flies right into a web that Spidey puts up and is easily captured. But he has an ace up his sleeve. Conveniently located in the room is some sort of control panel and three big monitors. Each one shows one of Peter's loved ones -Aunt May, MJ, and Flash- in a chair with something strapped over their heads. Harry tells Spidey that one of them has a "small shaped-charge clean fusion nuclear bomb" over their heads! Talk about overkill. Spidey has six minutes to find the right one, but the three are spread all over Manhattan. He busts Harry in the chops, knocking him unconscious, and swings off. Although this idea has been used many times before and since, the similar scene from "The Dark Knight" film popped up in my head.
Doug: If super-villains actually did what they ultimately intend to do, stories would be short, huh? Really -- sometimes the plots and ploys of super-baddies just smack of the 1966 Batman TV show. But to be honest, when I was 8 I didn't notice stuff like that. Which is funny -- DC was the company that never seemed to care if their stories were rife with plotholes. Marvel, however, was considered the more mature storytellers.

Karen: Spidey has to quickly decide where to go. He thinks about what Harry said and plays a hunch about who Harry would have chosen to kill. He heads for Aunt May -but first, maddeningly, his web shooters run out of fluid -AGAIN - and he races off to find a spare costume he'd hidden near-by to restock his web
supply. I kid you not. When it happened before with the boat in our first issue, I could just write it off, but here, it seems ridiculous that we're encountering this situation again. It's needlessly trying to inject more suspense and it fails miserably.

Doug: Given that Pete's wrists are encircled with spots for the web fluid cartridges, I'm thinking he'd have to use a lot of webbing to have run out in just the couple of days since he replaced them when in the middle of the scuffle with the Tarantula.

Karen: After getting fresh web cartridges, Spidey heads to Grant's Tomb, where Aunt May is stashed. He snags the bomb on a webline
and slings it into the water, where it explodes -apparently harmlessly. Then we have a bit of a gap in the story, as the next scene is Spidey standing over Harry, who wakes up and goes bonkers again. Spidey smacks him back into unconsciousness, and removes his costume as sirens sound the approach of the police. So what happened with Aunt May? Anyway, Spidey changes to his civvies and Harry is hauled out on a stretcher. Shockingly, he yells out that Peter is Spider-Man. It's a tense moment for Peter, but it's quickly deflated when Harry next states he is the Goblin. One of the cops says he's way too young to be the Goblin, chalks it all up to Harry's obvious insanity, and Peter breathes a sigh of relief. The police say Harry will need a lot of help, and Peter says he'll get it, because Harry's his friend. Kind of a downer ending, don't you think?
Doug: I read this twice before sitting down here to add my two cents. Harry told Spider-Man that there were three people hidden, in three parts of town. Only time to save one. But he never said who was hidden where, only that the one Peter loved the most had the real bomb threatening him/her. So how in the world did Pete know who was going to be inside Grant's Tomb? From the speech balloons as he approached, he didn't know, but thought that when he saw that it was Aunt May he'd gotten lucky. I just thought this was way too contrived. Did you feel that this story was rushed?

Karen: That might explain some things. Overall, I'd say this was a dece
nt little story, although this ending was somewhat anti-climactic, and riddled with some odd doings. There's never a feeling that Harry is a real threat to Peter as a combatant, so the fight scenes are dull. We know that it's mostly about Peter trying not to hurt Harry. Harry's only real threat -and it's a very disturbing one -is due to the fact that he knows Peter's ID and can threaten his loved ones. I think there might have been a way to play with this and increase the tension over four issues but Harry only becomes the Goblin in the previous issue, and so there's not much time to up the psychological ante.

Doug: Again, and I think we've discussed this before -- didn't Norman Osborn have some sort of "super soldier" serum that gave him enhanced strength? Or was it merely his mania that made him an able combatant against Spider-Man's super strength? Because if it's the former, I'm surprised that Harry couldn't have gotten his hands on some of that goon juice and amped himself up. And to think we could have used another issue to really flesh this out and make it more suspenseful, but instead we got the Mind
worm in Amazing Spider-Man #138 -- yeah, good call there!

Sunday, May 13, 2012

Discuss: The Avengers Movie (BEWARE -- Fully Spoiled!)


Doug:  Here it is, kids -- your chance to talk about any aspect of the Avengers movie that you'd care to bring up.  And hey -- thanks for everyone's patience and cooperation during our "gag order" over the past week.  For those who didn't see the movie right away, we're sure that was appreciated.  Now, have at it!


Saturday, May 12, 2012

Where Falls Your "Suspension of Disbelief"?

Doug:  Today we're asking you to attempt to explain those jumping off points where you are in the middle of a good comic book and are suddenly smitten by the "What the...?" stick.  Yep -- we all like the longjohn crowd around these parts -- super powers, interstellar travel, time jumping, etc.  But we've all commented to ourselves (and even here on this blog) that some things just don't jibe with our expectations of a particular character or story.  For example, on the comments for Monday's Amazing Spider-Man post, William said:

I also thought it went a little too far for Miles Warren (a college professor) to not only be capable of cloning a human being, but even more unbelievable, he was able to somehow imprint the memories of Peter Parker onto the clone and then "sync up" their brains so that both of them believed they were the "real" Spider-Man. WHA??? I mean, at least cloning is something that is scientifically possible, but I don't think anyone has ever been able to implant one persons memories into the brain of another, outside of a comic book.

Doug:   A couple of weeks ago I chided scribe Bob Haney for having Batman walking down a busy Gotham street, admiring the "beautiful scenery".  Commenter BSmith took me to task, saying:

First off, though....Batman walks through the city in broad daylight...I don't get the problem with this. If he only came out at night, it'd be easy to be a criminal in Gotham - just operate during daylight hours! If it looks silly, well, the idea of a guy going around in a bat-themed long-underwear outfit is silly enough in reality; I'd have thought you either accept the idea whole, or don't bother with it in the first place.

Doug: And just to show that my love affair with today's topic goes back a ways, let me remind you of a post Karen and I ran over a year ago, on our beloved Assemblers' tussle with the Zodiac cartel.  Here is what we said:

Doug: If you recall from our last review, the Avengers had attacked a rogue faction of Zodiac in a warehouse belonging to Cornelius van Lunt. Little did the mutineers know that the man from whom they sought an alliance and financing was in reality Taurus -- the leader against whom they would rebel. And the warehouse was in reality a spaceship (suspension of disbelief #1). So we join our heroes and villains caught in some major g-force as the "ship" approaches escape velocity. Trouble is, this is after all a warehouse, no one is strapped in, and who can really say if the whole deal is pressurized (suspension of disbelief #2)? Part of the wall recesses so that all inside can see that they've reached orbit. Iron Man discerns that it's not a window, but a force field. Thor, figuring his enchanted mallet can conquer it, launches that bad boy right at it, never considering that if Mjolnir dissipates the field, the vacuum of space will make short work of all on board (suspension of disbelief #3). The hammer does pierce the field, but by the time it returns, the ship isn't in the same place -- so does the hammer return to Thor, or where Thor is? Because I know I've seen it return to Thor no matter where he is (suspension of disbelief #4). So now there's no Thor -- only Don Blake! All right, this was in the opening scene -- it's gotta get better than this!

Karen: No kidding - I could probably let one, maybe even two of those slip by, but four? I know Thor sometimes acted like a bonehead, but this is too much. As you say Doug, why would he want to penetrate the force field and expose his fellows to the vacuum of space? And this whole thing with how Mjolnir functioned was a constant continuity issue: in some books, it always returned to Thor, in others, it returned to the point from where it was thrown. In any case, the rocket-warehouse idea is just goofy.

Doug: So I'm not alone here? I wondered how you'd perceive all of this. I was afraid I was just being grumpy, but apparently my middle-aged eyes are distancing themselves from my Bronze Age brain. Or something like that...


Doug:  So, what sayest thou, Faithful Reader?  What is tolerable/intolerable to you?  Is this a case-by-case issue for you, or are there some writing tendencies and vehicles that are more egregious than others?  Is this an issue of plotholes, laziness, characterization, or something entirely different?  Thanks in advance for you prompt responses!

Friday, May 11, 2012

That Zany Bob Haney: The Brave and the Bold 120

  

The Brave and the Bold #120 (July 1975)
"This Earth Is Mine!"
Bob Haney-Jim Aparo

Doug:  I'm back by popular request with another Bronze Age Brave and the Bold from the pen of Bob Haney and pencil of Jim Aparo.  As I said back on April 26th, these issues are contained in the recently-released Legends of the Dark Knight: Jim Aparo volume 1.  I've really enjoyed leafing through that tome, checking out all of the crazy combinations for the Batman team-ups.  But is today's fare a good story, or one of Haney's trademark "throw caution to the wind, along with the kitchen sink!" tales?  We shall see.

Doug:  Raise your cyber-hand if you're a Kamandi fan.  I distinctly recall a buddy of mine having some Kamandi issues when we were 7 or 8, but I don't think I ever read them.  To be honest, my knowledge of Kamandi comes from the Superman/Batman mini-series of a few years ago that involved all of the out-of-time characters of the DCU.  It was a fun mini, but I can't say that I became any sort of authority on the character from having read it.  I'll lead this post off by saying that seeing the Kamandi headshot by Jack Kirby on the cover feels "right"; my first impression of Aparo's rendition is that it's off.

Doug:  We open on Kamandi's Earth, in a farflung future that (for those not in the know) is not unlike the Earth of the Planet of the Apes films.  Humans have been reduced to slaves, while animals can talk and have come to dominate the planet.  Kamandi is fleeing from a troupe of gorillas on horseback, led by "Captain Bat", a mysterious humanoid with a flowing cloak and pointed ears.   The Batman finally catches Kamandi, but when he does (after a tussle), he helps him to escape!  Kamandi is baffled, but isn't going to hesitate for fear of punishment on the galley oars of the Great Lakes.  Finding a wild mustang, Kamandi leaps upon the beast and breaks it -- wary that now if he's caught it will certainly be trouble.  Humans, you see, are forbidden to ride.  Kamandi rides hard, when suddenly he comes in sight of Mount Rushmore -- and a patrol of bears!

Doug:  Avoiding the bears, Kamandi finds that the animals worship the giant stone presidents as gods!  Suddenly the National Anthem begins to play from the mammoth sculpture.  In a "who are these guys?" scene right out of Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid, Kamandi spies the Batman and his band of gorillas closing fast.  Now running, Kamandi heads straight for the Mount, and through a strange energy field.  But Batman won't be stopped, as he uses a batarang and rope to swing over the energy field and once again in pursuit of the blonde-maned youth.

Doug:  Once inside the mountain, Kamandi finds that he is not the "last boy on Earth" -- instead, in a scene reminiscent of the ending parts of Logan's Run, Kamandi finds an entire settlement of humans who have been living inside the presidential mount.  And then -- Haney gets Zany.  You see, these squatters have in their possession a copy of The Brave and the Bold #118.  They decided that the Batman would be their hero, and summoned him from the past using some old Indian magics.  Mm hmmm.  Anyway, in our present Batman had collapsed while with Commissioner Gordon, gone into a coma, while his "astral projection" journeyed to post-apocalyptic Earth to hang out with these survivors, and solidified.

Doug:  Batman tells of his arrival to Kamandi's time, and of how he was discovered by a gorilla patrol.  But the Batman is no dummy, nosiree.  He quickly deduces that he's a) in a future world b) ruled by animals that can talk.  Mm hmmm.  Batman bested the gorilla officer and became their leader, instantly christened Captain Bat.  Back in the Mount, Batman learns of the energy field that surrounds the Mount and keeps the animals at bay -- he deduces that it's a) radioactivity from old nuclear missile silos housed in South Dakota and b) by swinging over it he avoided any problems with it.  Mm hmmm.  To top off this bizarre scene, we are to believe that the National Anthem that had played for folks from miles around to hear came from a simple cassette recorder.  And Batman uses that same device now to broadcast his own message, leading the bears and gorillas to believe that George Washington is a god!

Doug:  After Batman's ruse, all of the animals busy themselves with moving a large jet -- Washington's command.  While occupied, the band of humans make their escape from the mountain.  But one young man, Garth, is so enamored with his newfound freedom that he's running around like a loon, drawing attention to himself.  Bad call.  Spied by a gorilla, a flare goes up and the cover's blown.  Batman has to rescue Garth, but in the process is lassoed and dragged behind horses for several miles.  In Christian Bale's kevlar?  No problem.  Adam West's tights?  Not so good, I'm guessing.  Anyway, Kamandi finds his former steed and in a daring rescue mission slashes the Batman's bounds.  The humans have made their way up a mountain and onto an abandoned rail car.  Setting it in motion, they are able to speed quickly away to full-time freedom.  After Batman catches up, thanks are given and the Dark Knight offers Kamandi the opportunity to return with him to 1975.  The boy declines, and the next thing we know Batman is awaking from a multi-day coma.  How, you ask?  Explanations be damned, I say!  This story is from the pen of Zany Bob Haney!

 

Doug:  This was a fun story, and for my money a bit better than the Teen Titans morality play I'd reviewed a couple of weeks ago.  I think part of my positive attitude has to do with my love of the previously mentioned films (see above) and how certain plot elements reminded me of them.  I would also say that I find Kamandi intriguing and do at some point plan to purchase the various collections of the Jack Kirby series.  Jim Aparo is solid on the art, and you may have noticed that he inked himself on this story.  It's pretty good, and as others have said, I can certainly make the argument that Aparo's Batman is my very own Dark Knight.




Thursday, May 10, 2012

Discuss: The Hulk -Smart, Dumb, or Just Plain Surly?

PLEASE: HOLD ONTO ALL OF YOUR AVENGERS MOVIE DISCUSSION UNTIL SUNDAY'S POST -- THE BRONZE AGE BABIES ARE TRYING TO DO OUR PART TO KEEP THE MOVIE-GOING EXPERIENCE SPOILER FREE FOR ALL OF OUR READERS. THANKS!

Karen: Talk about your favorite version of the Hulk. Is it the smart Hulk, who had Banner's intellect, the dumb, childlike Hulk, or the average intelligence, but just plain mean Hulk? Or something else?

Wednesday, May 9, 2012

Five Avengers Assemble!

PLEASE:  HOLD ONTO ALL OF YOUR AVENGERS MOVIE DISCUSSION UNTIL SUNDAY'S POST -- THE BRONZE AGE BABIES ARE TRYING TO DO OUR PART TO KEEP THE MOVIE-GOING EXPERIENCE SPOILER FREE FOR ALL OF OUR READERS.  THANKS!

Karen: You may have noticed the poll on the lefthand side here asking you to pick your five favorite Silver/Bronze Age Avengers. Please vote, and let us know here in your comments who you voted for and why. I'm sure there may be some quibbles about people left off the list; essentially, I stopped adding heroes after Falcon joined the team, and long before Gilgamesh, Mr. Fantastic, Invisible Woman, Dr. Druid, and a lot of other dubious members joined.

Karen: My own personal choices would be: Captain America, Thor, Iron Man, Vision, and Hawkeye. I guess I'm stuck around the Kree-Skrull time period even now.

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