Martinex1: We are just days away from the Captain America: Civil War release and I have been avoiding as many trailers and spoilers as possible. But the fact is, I have been seeing previews for this grand kerkuffle in the Marvel Universe for decades, as the heroes have repeatedly relied on fisticuffs to solve their problems. Long before the comic book Civil War, the attitude was punch first and ask questions later. Disagreements over hidden faces, shady actions, misunderstood movements, and even a favorite food seemed to lead to an epic battle.
So here we are in the mystical comic shop for our regular $1 Challenge shopping spree of If I Had a Buck... For those of you that have not joined us before, it is a simple game of choosing from the titles below, picking your favorites from this virtual spinner rack and commenting on those issues, the characters, the genre, Marvel in general, or anything that pops into your heads. We once again are pulling from the Quarter Bin as some of these comics came out in the (eeek!) 1990s and even the 2000s, and could not have been purchased for a single greenback. So you have four quarters for four comics with our friendly foes fighting ferociously. Who can ask for more?
There were plenty of Marvel cover battles to choose from, but I did my best to limit it to characters appearing in the film. (If the Hulk had been included, there would have been dozens more). If you can think of other examples, please share. Thanks to Mike's Amazing World of Comics site for the easy research and cover hunting.
So without further ado, jump right in, keep your hands to yourself and enjoy!
30 comments:
Another fine spinner rack challenge today, Martinex!I don't think four quarters will get the job done today: too many good choices. But, as the game is played:
Avengers 71- as I already have 161, this one's a quick grab. Great cover...
Avengers Annual 2- Old vs New Avengers? How can you not pick this up?
Tales to Astonish 57- an early crossover for the webslinger. Definitely.
Black Panther 30- yes, I'll take a shot on a more recent book. Again, a great cover to draw me in...I'd buy it today...
And looking over several of these covers today, I wonder: what do the Vision and Scarlet Witch have against Spider-Man?
Can I just say (no spoilers, keep reading) that across the pond, Civil War has opened!
I’m saying nothing, except…. Damn! Remember how you felt when you came out of the first Avengers movie and you just couldn’t believe they’d got it SO right and all you wanted to do was go straight back in again? Buckle up, BABsters. The Russo Boys (who I understand will direct the Infinity Wars) have set our their table and the Assemblers are in safe hands.
Re: the buck, Avengers #71 – Roy auditioning the Invaders, and, I believe the first time the Vision did his ‘pass through knock out’ trick.
Avengers 161 –I’ve said before, the thing I love about Ant Man is that he is only in 4 Avengers stories and they are all corkers.
Defenders 9 – Englehart invents the cross over, featuring a plot and character driven all-star punch up which was not contrived and in true Englehart style drew on many threads of back story.
I want to pick TTA #57 ( certainly the best value at 25c), but the cover of GS Avengers #2 alone still gives me tingles. All hail Big John.
Now hurry up and see Civil War, Americans! We’re dying over here!
Richard
Martinex, Avengers #223 has a wonderful cover but does it count for this theme? After all, Hawkeye and Antman are cooperating, not fighting each other...
Anyway, I thought of one even before I scrolled down to look at your covers: Amazing Spider-man #187, which has always been a personal favorite of mine (the issue itself more than the cover). Looking at that one and, say, the covers to Marvel Team-up #s 49 and 87, makes me want to expand on the question posted by Redartz, i.e., what does *everyone* have against Spider-man? Otherwise, like the Hulk, Spider-man sure does seem do figure in a lot of these, doesn't he?
As for your challenge, I'm going to go for stuff I've never had/read, so its Avengers Annual (Special) #2, Tales to Astonish #57 (wouldn't it be great to score those two for a quarter each?), Captain America #242 and Black Panther #30.
Richard, interesting that Civil War has already opened where you're at - I'm wondering how those earlier release dates are decided, since in Croatia it's opening on the same day as it is in the US, although in the past, certain other movies opened a week or two earlier than the US premiere (that was the case for several of the previous Marvel films, and, I'm pretty sure, for The Force Awakens as well). Not that I'm complaining either way: back in the '90s and well into the early 2000s, we usually had to wait from one to three months after its US premiere to see any American movies.
Oh brother, I can hear you guys' eyes rolling already, but-- I have all but five of the offered issues here, so-- from what's left:
TtA #57-- wow, yeah! Just a couple of months before it became the Hulk's book as well! And that is not a bad cover at all.
Black Panther#30-- that's also a solid cover, and I'm really liking the logical deep-continuity of it (that's gonna be T'Challa's father or grandfather Cap's facing, right?).
Then mmmmmaybe the Hawkeye book (only because of my long-term affection for ol' Clint).
-- and then I'm gonna save that last quarter for my daughter's tuition, 'cause the Cont.of Champs reboot & Winter Soldier hold not even that much interest for me. . . (sorry guys!)
HB
Englehart invented the crossover in Defenders 9?
My picks would be the same as Richard's though. Except, I like what I've read of Chris Priest's Panther run, so that would be my fourth choice.
-sean
Edo you are correct. That Avengers cover does not exactly fit the theme, but I am hopeful something similar happens in the movie so let's just pretend he's aiming at Iron Man.
And from what I recall about that Black Panther, Cap does face one of T'Challa's ancestors. I believe it was his father if I recall correctly.
And Spidey sure did take a kicking in his own team up book.
Thanks for the feedback on the film Richard. That is good to hear. Sounds like a blast and the prelim reviews seem strong. We will all be able to discuss it spoiler free here at the end of the week. Cannot wait.
Englehart had the first multi issue crossover between two titles over several months, as far as I know. That was also the impression of Roy Thomas when I spoke to him about it for my article on the Avengers-Defenders war.
Englehart had the first multi issue crossover between two titles over several months, as far as I know. That was also the impression of Roy Thomas when I spoke to him about it for my article on the Avengers-Defenders war.
Fair enough, Richard. Theres always room for debate in these things, and "invented the crossover" may be a bit of an exaggeration (although who among us doesn't do that?) but you make a good argument. So yeah, why not? Defenders/Avengers war was the first Marvel crossover Even.
-sean
PS - Event! Not Even, Event! &@%£! kevboard!!
-sean
Hi Karen,
You haven't got Marshall McLuan behind that pillar as well, have you? R.
OK I'll take
Tales To Astonish #57 (love me some classic Spidey and Giant-Man)
Avengers #161 (One of my all-time favorite comics)
King Size Avengers #2 (because that's a lot of bang for your buck)
and Marvel Team-Up #87 (because it's a nice one-shot issue)
I would have taken MTU #49 but that issue is one chapter of a multi-part story arc. However, reading The Wraith saga was one of my fondest childhood comicbook memories. They should reprint that in a TPB.
Avengers #71 is another one that I would buy if we had $1.50 to spend.
Another great dollar's worth post, Martinex1!
I have a lot of those from the 70s so I'm going newer:
"Wakanda 1941" has me intrigued so that Black Panther is my first choice. Then, War Machine, Winter Soldier and lastly I gotta have some Hawkeye so...Avengers #223 over Blindspot because of Ant-Man. Although a more modern Hawk vs. Cap tussle is also interesting, hmmm...
It's been mentioned several times around these parts that there is some concern about the direction of the recent films - Why can't we all just get along? etc. But, Marvel heroes have been fighting each other since forever. So, with that and Richard's words of assurance...
BRING IT CAPTAIN AMERICA CIVIL WAR!
Tom
Hey William, I liked that multi-part Wraith saga in MTU as well. Wasn't that where Captain DeWolff was introduced? Anyway, definitely agree that it should be included in some kind of reprint tpb. Something like, "all of those MTU multi-part stories that weren't part of the Claremont-Byrne run" or something like that...
First, sorry for the double post. I was on my phone, and we all now strange things happen when you are on your phone.
Second, 'R' (Richard?), when I spoke to Marshall McLuhan last week, he told me that the Avengers-Defenders war was definitely the first crossover event. He also said that Ultron was the greatest Avengers enemy, but Kang was a close second. So I guess that settles that.
(Thanos to Marshall McLuan): "you know nothing of my work"
Richard
I've read a few of these over the years and I remember most of them as being pretty good. For my picks I'd take: Defenders (since it's part of the Avengers/Defenders War thing); Winter Soldier (I like Brubaker's Cap/Winter Soldier stuff); MTU 87 ( an interesting clash between Spidey and Panther, though I thought Panther's reasons for mistrusting Spidey were weak); and MTU 130 (which I had as a kid...I think it was a two-part story, but I'll take it anyway).
Mike Wilson
Hi Matinex,
I always enjoy your "If I had a buck" articles. I have the Marvel Tales issues #41 and #49, so I would probably go with that Cap #242, which seems to have escaped my greedy hands thus far.
Another good battle between several of the Civil War adversaries occurred in Captain America #137 and #138, a classic two-parter where ole Cap and the Falcon took on Spider-Man on the basis of little more than the flimsy and irrational opinions of the general public, who still distrusted Spidey and regarded him as a criminal of sorts. Specifically, Falcon wanted to prove himself to Cap by taking on and defeating the webhead, and naturally the task was not as easy as he initially thought.
Avengers #161 - classic little guy taking on a whole team, very cleverly written.
MTU #130 for nostalgia and the pleasure of seeing the Vision in a non-Avengers comic.
Defenders #9 for the fine Bronze-style cover. Very dramatic.
Avengers #71 as something of a milestone comic, Roy Thomas putting his mark on the later Silver Age.
And anyone else think that those team-upperers didn't spend much time team-upping?
Ohhh, so many choices and all we can spend is a buck!!! (Good thing "!" are free)
I would go for the ones I don't have:
Iron Man V The Captain
Black Panther V Spider-Man
Avengers V Defenders
War Machine V Iron Man
BANG!!! and that's my buck.
One other issue I'd throw out as a choice is Avengers 170. (Switching to my Gilda Radner as Roseanne Roseannadanna) It's the one where Cap and Iron Man take on the rest of the Avengers in this kinda of internal strife, one side against another, team mate against team mate all because some Avengers are trying to stop Jocasta from leaving but other Avengers want to track her back to Ultron and there's this whole big mess and then they all come back together......(and SCENE).
Doug, I think it's the goatee that always mixes up Count Nefaria and Graviton in my memory banks..... those crazy guys always trying to take on the Avengers!!!!
Speaking of which, I finished my Avengers Vol 1, and wouldn't you know it, the covers of 400 and 402 just pulled away, like they were cheaply made or something....who knew!?!
(And you, you can be mean
And I, I'll drink all the time
'Cause we're lovers, and that is a fact
Yes we're lovers, and that is that
Though nothing, will keep us together
We could steal time,
just for one day
We can be Heroes, for ever and ever
What d'you say?)
Prowler, Avengers 170... I should have thought of that. I read that issue non stop when I was young.
Colin, I always liked in MTIO how in the header they would sneak a "vs" or "battles" between the Thing and the guest star. Some of these Team-ups could have used that. Has a superhero ever been seriously injured in one of these standard hero battles of mistaken intentions? That may be an interesting twist.
Thomas, I actually have a Cap 138 signed by Stan the Man. That is a prized possession
And I too liked that Wraith run in MTU. Great covers around that time too.
To kind of answer your side-question there, MX1, during the deFalco/Ryan run on Fantastic Four, Wolverine and Ben seriously mixed it up, resulting in a severe claw wound to Ben's face. It became kind of a Dr Doom-esque injury, in that it was never directly depicted to the reader (smart move-- kinda like what they did w/ Jonah Hex for years and years). Ben ended up wearing a full-head helmet for several months while the wound slowly healed, and it clearly had a traumatic effect on his self-image--.
Oo! And with the question of whether the AV/DEF War was the first major crossover event-- surely, SURELY, there are others here old enough to remember that summer when those issues were coming out? Although there may have been other continued stories, and stories that touched multiple titles, this was unquestionably the first one that was set up as a marketable, hype-worthy event from the get-go. I can COMPLETELY recall that tingly feeling of, "Oh man-- there's NEVER been a story like this! This is as big as ANYTHING could EVER be!! Ohhhhhhh baby!!!" That palpable sense of precedent and new territory and the joy of watching a favorite medium become SO MUCH BETTER than it had ever been before. . . I just grin like an idiot thinking about it. And the taste of ice cream sandwiches somehow comes along for the ride. . .
HB
There you have it, ladies and gents: if HB says it, it must be true!
Mmm, an ice cream sandwich sounds pretty good. Especially an It's-It! God how I miss that Bay Area confection.
The real beauty of the Avengers-Defenders War is the simplicity of how it was handled at Marvel. Englehart comes up with the idea, of having a big event to fill the void of no annuals that summer. He tells Roy, "I want to do this story that will go back and forth between the two books this summer." Roy says, "Well, OK, but you know if you're late on one issue, we're screwed." Steve says, "I won't be late," and Roy says, "OK, go for it." That would never happen today. Never.
Hey, gang --
A little late to the party. I'm in a far off land facilitating a teacher workshop today and tomorrow, so didn't have the usual access to the blog.
If Karen's going to bring up geographic-specific treats, Martinex will understand that I just finished an Italian beef/sausage combo from Portillo's. The rest of you are missing out.
It's Super Blog Team-Up time again, kids. Tomorrow Karen and I will have our review of Tales of Suspense #58, and the usual links to our partners' blogs will be at the bottom. Please patronize them. And hopefully we pick up some new readers as well.
Good feedback today, but then Avengers fighting is a bona fide fun topic.
Doug
"There's a lot to be said for the beauty of simplicity"-- said by an acquaintance named John Decker several years ago-- a scientist at NASA. In that instance, he was referring to the fact that the electronics in the Apollo 11 capsule were so comparatively simple to what are in use today. Toggle switches. Like you'd buy in Home Depot. Runnin' the whole show.
Nah, an informal story-pitch like that would never even get pitched in the first place today-- you're right Karen.
And now the ice cream sandwich hankering has swollen to epic proportions. Wonder if I could sneak down to 7-11. . . blast. . . my wife's sitting right there on the couch. . . in full view of the front door. . . grngghh. . .
HB
I don't know what an Its-It is. And I'm in the food and soft serve business. I will have to look that one up.
And yes to Portillos. Try the Beef and Cheddar, and don't forget the chocolate cake! (There was a day I was under 200...just sayin). Ha. Should have pursues a job in comics instead of food development and taste testing! Home Run Inn Pizza anybody? Just another Chicago treat before a Sox game. Local favorite foods may have to be a discussion some day.
Back to the topic at hand...who had the most superhero battles? I am going to say Spidey, Hulk, and Namor had a huge share. Did DC partake as much as Marvel in this trope? I was not as avid a DC follower but not as many stories jump out at me at all.
The Avengers/Defenders war...only discovered it via the back-issue bins, but what a tale! I envy all of you who read those installments as they came out. The JLA/JLA crossovers may have appeared earlier, but Av/Def really took the epic ball and ran away with it!
Martinex1- purely unscientific, but I think Spidey got caught up in more heroic fisticuffs ( Hulk and Namor both having more anti-heroic reputations).
Regarding DC battles: they did present one of the all-time best: Justice League #1 (1987?). Guy Gardner vs everybody. Loads of fun...
Oh, and those ice cream sammiches sound awfully good. If you run out for one, HB, can you grab me one?
Mmmmm, ice cream sammiches, mmmm....
Martinex, don't feel bad about not knowing what an It's-It is, as apparently it's (is there a pun in there somewhere?) a very regional thing. Heck, I grew up on the West Coast too (Oregon) and even lived in the SF Bay Area in the late '80s/early '90s, and the first time I'd heard of them is when Karen mentioned them here.
I just have to chime in and say YES HB, I am old enough to remember the Summer of the Avengers-Defenders War. I was about 3 months into my state of Zuvembieness(?) when those issues hit the spinners. When I first caught a glimpse of Avengers #116 with the Silver Surfer vs. Vision and Scarlet Witch, followed a mere week or so later with Defenders #9 with Hawkeye vs. Iron Man, with the Hulk, Subby and Dr. Strange looming...man...just WOW!
Tom
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